Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, Troll said: don't project....it's not very becoming. Please do. But here is the question. What is the social and racial association of wearing a white hoodie in the US and then also for kneeling? whose projecting? Is that not the position you are arguing that kneeling was intrusive b/c it broke from tradition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, DevilDog said: What if that would have been an African American doing that during the Anthem with a sign supporting Democrats and Pro Choice? Would it get the same comparative response or would it be a while new level of angst? Imagine the responses on this board toward him. Yet I have not injected any vitriol toward this event. I think if we're honest we all know the answer. Cooterville would all be having elevated swine eating Hypertension activity the day after. Imagine what The President would say. I wonder if this guy is the Son of a Bitch. Things that make the old Double D say hhhmmmmm. Since you've got ZERO people here actually standing up for the abortion guy, I think all your exaggerating here is a bit much.... everyone agrees, so I'm not sure what beating a dead horse is doing....101% to agree? Oh wait....Horse is sticking up for the Abortion guy saying he should just be asked to take a seat with his sign that's forbidden. Guess you are going to have to ask HIM how much more vitriol he will spew.... if the dude is black.... 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Troll said: Since you've got ZERO people here actually standing up for the abortion guy, I think all your exaggerating here is a bit much.... everyone agrees, so I'm not sure what beating a dead horse is doing....101% to agree? Oh wait....Horse is sticking up for the Abortion guy saying he should just be asked to take a seat with his sign that's forbidden. Guess you are going to have to ask HIM how much more vitriol he will spew.... if the dude is black.... 🤣 I don’t have any more vitriol if the sign guy was black or white.(why do you always fall into these racial traps?) my point about him is I initially made no point about him going to jail or otherwise. But I did explain the difference between the kneelers and sign guy. Why no comment on what I actually stated instead of fabricating an argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Horsefly said: Please do. But here is the question. What is the social and racial association of wearing a white hoodie in the US and then also for kneeling?<<<actually irrelevant ...some people can take more offense when you disrespect their country, than if you did their skin. Why do you think you have any 'special dispensation' just because you are black? Same infraction, yet you try to argue size... whose projecting?<<<you are with your "the most intrusive gesture according to you and others." Is that not the position you are arguing that kneeling was intrusive b/c it broke from tradition? vvvBelow more specifically taking center stage and thumbing the tradition to purposely ruin it, to make others uncomfortable, for personal gain. You can break from tradition all you want....but to try and make a mockery of others and interrupt their own paid for event, is what I am debating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, Horsefly said: I don’t have any more vitriol if the sign guy was black or white.(why do you always fall into these racial traps?) my point about him is I initially made no point about him going to jail or otherwise. But I did explain the difference between the kneelers and sign guy. Why no comment on what I actually stated instead of fabricating an argument? all good, you just happened to be the guy ruining the 100% 😄 so I had to point to you LOL. really not trying to argue and got some stuff to do, so I be back later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted October 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 25 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Of course it would bring out the wrath. I’m enjoying the discussion on how kneeling silently is so disruptive to ones sensibilities. Fragility comes to mind. Well 75% disapproved of MLK and he was an appeaser and kneeler. They are parroting old Granny and Grandpa it seems to be an inherited trait by anyone with a sense of observance. I'm not upset I expect it. And old scruffy Grandpa they claim was of the greatest generation. Yet my PaPa told me they sucked big time. Who do you think were lying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Troll said: more specifically taking center stage and thumbing the tradition to purposely ruin it, to make others uncomfortable, for personal gain. You can break from tradition all you want....but to try and make a mockery of others and interrupt their own paid for event, is what I am debating... Interrupt:to stop the progress of or prevent from happening. So in your own words, the kneelers are stopping the progress of or preventing fans from honoring the flag. This is what you are debating, then explain HOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, Troll said: Please do. But here is the question. What is the social and racial association of wearing a white hoodie in the US and then also for kneeling?<<<actually irrelevant ...some people can take more offense when you disrespect their country, than if you did their skin. Why do you think you have any 'special dispensation' just because you are black? Same infraction, yet you try to argue size... Slow down man, you had asked how folks wearing a hoodie and protesting is different from the players kneeling and I answered, the social association of what one group is wearing. of course groups can be and are offended by both, that's obvious and doesn't need to be explained. So your comment misses the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Horsefly said: Interrupt:to stop the progress of or prevent from happening. So in your own words, the kneelers are stopping the progress of or preventing fans from honoring the flag. This is what you are debating, then explain HOW Just ignoring the bull in the China shop are we??? 🤣 Put another way....If he is not 'interrupting the event' then what is his entire point of his being on the field? he can just stay in the locker room and no more issue..problem is now all solved...…….....if what you say is true... So why doesn't he do just that?!? Oh that's right because now we got camera guys zooming in, announcers that can't shut up about it, unwanted commentary instead of football etc. etc.... You seriously cannot be in that much denial that it has not 'interrupted anything' LOLOL and are not really trying to debate that this was the whole point of protest.... ..that would be silly....wouldn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 18 minutes ago, Troll said: Just ignoring the bull in the China shop are we??? 🤣 Put another way....If he is not 'interrupting the event' then what is his entire point of his being on the field? he can just stay in the locker room and no more issue..problem is now all solved...…….....if what you say is true... So why doesn't he do just that?!? Oh that's right because now we got camera guys zooming in, announcers that can't shut up about it, unwanted commentary instead of football etc. etc.... You seriously cannot be in that much denial that it has not 'interrupted anything' LOLOL and are not really trying to debate that this was the whole point of protest.... ..that would be silly....wouldn't it. You just answered the question. They are appealing to the cameras and commentary to come forward in the news and talk shows, nothing to prevent or interrupt the spectator in the stadium from participating in the anthem. No it has not interrupted a thing. Waiting on you to explain HOW it has interrupted others from participating in the anthem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Slow down man, you had asked how folks wearing a hoodie and protesting is different from the players kneeling and I answered, the social association of what one group is wearing. of course groups can be and are offended by both, that's obvious and doesn't need to be explained. So your comment misses the mark. my comment is the mark when discussing 'offense'.... take away any 'depth of social association' of the offense, and you are still left with two events offending in the exact same way.... IE. If a 'SOCIAL THIEF' breaks into your store and only steals $10, it is the very same as a thief breaking in and stealing $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, Horsefly said: You just answered the question. They are appealing to the cameras and commentary to come forward in the news and talk shows, nothing to prevent or interrupt the spectator in the stadium from participating in the anthem. No it has not interrupted a thing. Waiting on you to explain HOW it has interrupted others from participating in the anthem. So you are trying to tell me that when the camera zooms in on a protest, and bypasses the flag and game, or when the announcers and media can't shut up about it, that I have not been interrupted from my football??? Just WOW on the outright denial, and pure non-acceptance of responsibility for one's own actions.... Feel free to blame any 'How' on your NFL co-conspirators, but to deny any impact...….. is denying your own cause, and playing your audience for stupid..... just sayin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, Troll said: So you are trying to tell me that when the camera zooms in on a protest, and bypasses the flag and game, or when the announcers and media can't shut up about it, that I have not been interrupted from my football??? Just WOW on the outright denial, and pure non-acceptance of responsibility for one's own actions.... Feel free to blame any 'How' on your NFL co-conspirators, but to deny any impact...….. is denying your own cause, and playing your audience for stupid..... just sayin... You weren't talking about the gotdamn people at home, you were flapping about the fans in the stadium! the announcers and media is for the fan at home. Remember this thread was about the clown running around the STADIUM with the sign and then came the comparisons to the kneelers. so instead of moving the goalposts, make up your mind which fans are we talking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 20 minutes ago, Troll said: my comment is the mark when discussing 'offense'.... take away any 'depth of social association' of the offense, and you are still left with two events offending in the exact same way.... IE. If a 'SOCIAL THIEF' breaks into your store and only steals $10, it is the very same as a thief breaking in and stealing $100. That was the question!! What is the difference between the two, there is no taking away and removing the social association as that's the difference. We don't need to argue that they can both be offensive, because so can a million other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Horsefly said: You weren't talking about the gotdamn people at home, you were flapping about the fans in the stadium! the announcers and media is for the fan at home. Remember this thread was about the clown running around the STADIUM with the sign and then came the comparisons to the kneelers. so instead of moving the goalposts, make up your mind which fans are we talking? All fans.....should be acceptable.... All fans....have been impacted.... Many fans...like me. both watched and went to games... Your goalpost analogy is a straw grasp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Horsefly said: That was the question!! What is the difference between the two, there is no taking away and removing the social association as that's the difference. We don't need to argue that they can both be offensive, because so can a million other things. well according to YOUR argument there is absolutely none.....(as in no difference between a kneeler and a protesting hood wearer) Since neither one is being disruptive, and have interrupted no one.... So maybe you just need to reconcile your own arguments.... and get back to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, Troll said: All fans.....should be acceptable.... All fans....have been impacted.... Many fans...like me. both watched and went to games... Your goalpost analogy is a straw grasp... Bullshit!! You're starting to piss me off Troll. This is what you posted just a few hours ago! this is not a comment about the fan at home, it was about the fan experience at the GAME!! 4 hours ago, Horsefly said: How does kneeling rob the public of time and space? They (the public) paid for entertainment of a certain 'football' variety, and received a ticket for the event at a certain time and place.... The paid actors that run 'off script', and use that same time and space as their own, to further their own agenda, have robbed the fan of being able to enjoy their football experience without being cause panhandled... Pure theft from a 'paid to provide' actor, who was hired to do something entirely different.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, Troll said: well according to YOUR argument there is absolutely none.....(as in no difference between a kneeler and a protesting hood wearer) Since neither one is being disruptive, and have interrupted no one.... So maybe you just need to reconcile your own arguments.... and get back to me... This is another bs statement you pulled from nowhere.. I said for the hundredth time there is a difference, it's in the social and racial association of the hoodie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 21 minutes ago, Horsefly said: I said for the hundredth time there is a difference, it's in the social and racial association of the hoodie. sorry but you will have to do better …. you get no 'special dispensation' for just what YOU consider offensive... Whites males are oppressed institutionally by law.... if you have not read it (see the Philadelphia Laws), so any claim of your 'protest' not going to the same level of $100 social thievery by the perps is a farce.... Many can easily view it as the KKK er BLM or 'black fists matter' flexing their oppression and dividing the black/white rift further... I certainly did not make it about racism.....that's Kap's cup of tea.... Sorry but shoving a black fist in someones face, is no better than sporting a hood... You think if fans starting wearing white hoodies to the stadium it would be a better protest than a boycott, you think the NFL should try and kick them out for doing so? You already indicated that you support their right to sit in their seat and wear them and not get tossed, like you do for the abortion guy....please confirm the same for these 'protesters rights'.... or explain how your not being a hypocryte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 15, 2018 Report Share Posted October 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, Troll said: sorry but you will have to do better …. you get no 'special dispensation' for just what YOU consider offensive... Whites males are oppressed institutionally by law.... if you have not read it (see the Philadelphia Laws), so any claim of your 'protest' not going to the same level of $100 social thievery by the perps is a farce.... Many can easily view it as the KKK er BLM or 'black fists matter' flexing their oppression and dividing the black/white rift further... I certainly did not make it about racism.....that's Kap's cup of tea.... Sorry but shoving a black fist in someones face, is no better than sporting a hood... You think if fans starting wearing white hoodies to the stadium it would be a better protest than a boycott, you think the NFL should try and kick them out for doing so? You already indicated that you support their right to sit in their seat and wear them and not get tossed, like you do for the abortion guy....please confirm the same for these 'protesters rights'.... or explain how your We've had this discussion before. Raised fists show power and solidarity to the cause. A white hoodie was the attire of the KKK whose ideology was to uphold white supremacy. now once again, let's break these statements down and look at the impact to other groups. Black power came of age for black civil rights, which was not a call to decrease white rights or civil liberties. This is not a zero sum game to improved police relationships in the black community. It doesn't mean there would be poorer relationships in white ones. Blacks seeking equal service on public transportation was not a call for whites to have the roles reversed where they would be delegated to the back of the bus. White supremacy; however, came at a cost to non whites as the aim was to keep white privilege and rights elevated above those of non whites. why do you keep equating the two? What is the threat to the white social, economic and political structure in this country b/c blacks are protesting for improved police relationships in their communities? (That's the purpose of the kneeling) your other stuff about black dispensation and racism towards whites (Philadelphia laws) is totally irrelevant in this argument. Save that for another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecPadre Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 On 10/14/2018 at 6:11 PM, DevilDog said: Now this is blatant disrespect during the Anthem. I am waiting for the real Americans to speak up about this. Oh i know none of you saw it since you are protesting by not watching the NFL. 😎 During Sunday’s national anthem, an as-yet-unidentified protester raised a “Stop Abortion / Vote Republican” sign and walked across the roof of AT&T Stadium’s field suites just prior to the Dallas Cowboys’ game against the Jacksonville Jaguars. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/protester-national-anthem-dallas-urges-fans-vote-republican-221825956.html Protester during national anthem in Dallas urges fans to 'Vote Republican' I see that security just kindly point him back to his seat. Wonder what would have happened if you or I did something similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecPadre Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 On 10/15/2018 at 7:33 AM, Horsefly said: How does kneeling rob the public of time and space? How do you reconcile those that kneel silently from those that decide to make a beer run to the concessions during the national anthem? Both are conscious decisions. One is for political reasons another is to satisfy a personal want. Do you feel the beer runner is just as egregious? This!! Shouldn't the fans be focusing on the flag during the anthem and not on what the players are doing silently? Child please!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolebull813 Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 The kneeling is intentional disrespect. Beer running is not. The beer runner doesn't have disrespect in mind. They are not using their time to get beer as a protest during the national anthem. If someone organized a protest via beer run then it would be scrutinized. Police brutality is a myth. The statistics back it up that it is about as much of a problem percentage wise as Elizabeth Warren is Native American. So to protest during a specific time that has been expressed to them as egregiously disrespectful and for them to still do it is where the outrage comes from. I would much rather see these ball players be filmed by ESPN and all the other MSM actively engaging in their communities with police and citizens trying to bridge the gap. Come together for events and strengthen trust. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it damn sure doesn't get reported on. There are a lot better ways to use your platform than to show the youth you think this country is a racist hell hole with police as the enemies. That is the message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Nolebull813 said: The kneeling is intentional disrespect. Beer running is not. The beer runner doesn't have disrespect in mind. They are not using their time to get beer as a protest during the national anthem. If someone organized a protest via beer run then it would be scrutinized. Police brutality is a myth. The statistics back it up that it is about as much of a problem percentage wise as Elizabeth Warren is Native American. So to protest during a specific time that has been expressed to them as egregiously disrespectful and for them to still do it is where the outrage comes from. I would much rather see these ball players be filmed by ESPN and all the other MSM actively engaging in their communities with police and citizens trying to bridge the gap. Come together for events and strengthen trust. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it damn sure doesn't get reported on. There are a lot better ways to use your platform than to show the youth you think this country is a racist hell hole with police as the enemies. That is the message It's a conscious decision to bypass the anthem to go get a beer. It's that simple Bull. (Bottomline, it's not a big time individual priority many try to make us believe. Their actions speak louder) A lot of the players are doing things in the community, it's not their fault the media doesn't follow them around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted October 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 15 hours ago, Horsefly said: It's a conscious decision to bypass the anthem to go get a beer. It's that simple Bull. (Bottomline, it's not a big time individual priority many try to make us believe. Their actions speak louder) A lot of the players are doing things in the community, it's not their fault the media doesn't follow them around. https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/wonder-white-players-arent-kneeling-amy-schumer-wont-super-bowl-commercial-opposes-nfl-181121852.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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