Mjd33 Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, badrouter said: MV has no actual wins of consequence. Yup. Never do in the regular season. but are in every meaningful poll’s top 25. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said: Examples please. This is a national forum, you cain't just spout BS with out citing a source or example. "C" game material Examples of what exactly? LA/OC teams being ranked highly, despite multiple losses and/or no nationally meaningful wins? That's easy. Look at the rankings posted on this site. OLU, MV, Bishop Gorman LV I already mentioned, San Bernadino Cajon...I could go on. These are teams that lack even a single win that makes a case for them being top 100 nationally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mjd33 said: Yup. Never do in the regular season. but are in every meaningful poll’s top 25. Mission Viejo is very well known among recruiting services with their history of name QBs and QB coaches. And, as I mentioned somewhere else, QB play sometimes gets overrated at the high school level. It can make all the difference in the NFL and among the top levels of college football. But, that's due in part to the fact that the other variables-like team athleticism and quality of play in the trenches-are MUCH closer to even at those levels. I freely concede that, all other things being mostly equal, QB play makes all the difference. But, when there is a huge disparity in athleticism (frankly not even possible to attain in the NFL or even among elite college teams), the QB can end up irrelevant. Some of these teams we are complaining about are clearly lacking in athleticism and quickness, especially in their defensive front seven. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntn31 Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Mjd33 said: Why doesn’t MV play MD or SJB ever in regular season ? Or even corona centennial? A lot of that had to do with their old coach refusing to schedule those teams. Now that SJB's former OC is there I wouldn't be surprised to see them start scheduling up more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, badrouter said: Examples of what exactly? LA/OC teams being ranked highly, despite multiple losses and/or no nationally meaningful wins? That's easy. Look at the rankings posted on this site. OLU, MV, Bishop Gorman LV I already mentioned, San Bernadino Cajon...I could go on. These are teams that lack even a single win that makes a case for them being top 100 nationally. Sammy begging for OLU and MV to be ranked in the top 50 or even 25 every season would be akin to me or some other Georgia poster begging and claiming Camden and Tift top 25 every year. Sometimes they might be. But every year they aren't. Not trying to interject Ga into the convo, just using the best comparison tool I have. These are pretty solid teams usually, and playing in a top 5 in the country league. They maybe could beat 15k other teams in the country, but they didn't and their claims are losing to the good teams they're playing. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjd33 Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, dntn31 said: A lot of that had to do with their old coach refusing to schedule those teams. Now that SJB's former OC is there I wouldn't be surprised to see them start scheduling up more. I’ll believe it when The ink is dry .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, badrouter said: What I'm saying is they haven't done enough to ensure their consistently prominent place towards the top of the national rankings. They start highly ranked and even if they have four losses in nine games-two of which that would qualify as running clock losses in many states-they STILL stay highly ranked. NOTHING can happen to knock em down. In many states, a loss does more to knock the losing team down. In LA/OC, the loss does more to prop the winning team up. OLU has been "running-clocked" twice and the only conclusion being drawn is that the teams forcing the running clock are really good. Nobody is saying "Damn, OLU got their ass beat again? Maybe they aren't top 100". I was asking for examples of other teams from other states that are more worthy of being ranked above MV but are not 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: Sammy begging for OLU and MV to be ranked in the top 50 or even 25 every season would be akin to me or some other Georgia poster begging and claiming Camden and Tift top 25 every year. Sometimes they might be. But every year they aren't. Not trying to interject Ga into the convo, just using the best comparison tool I have. These are pretty solid teams usually, and playing in a top 5 in the country league. They maybe could beat 15k other teams in the country, but they didn't and their claims are losing to the good teams they're playing. Period. I'm not begging for anything. Don't particularly care for MV or OLU. Just don't buy the argument that a 10-0 team that plays programs such as Sunnyslope, or Something something Valley, would have a better record than MV or OLU playing the same schedule. Who are your "solid teams" that are ranked below MV but are not due to perceived bias 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrobstercraws Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 hours ago, badrouter said: What I'm saying is they haven't done enough to ensure their consistently prominent place towards the top of the national rankings. They start highly ranked and even if they have four losses in nine games-two of which that would qualify as running clock losses in many states-they STILL stay highly ranked. NOTHING can happen to knock them down. In many states, a loss does more to knock the losing team down. In LA/OC, the loss does more to prop the winning team up. OLU has been "running-clocked" twice and the only conclusion being drawn is that the teams forcing the running clock are really good. Nobody is saying "Damn, OLU got their ass beat again? Maybe they aren't top 100". Well did you see who put a running clock on them? Do you realize the skill players OLU has are really good? Wasn't Upland ranked 8th in CA at the time they played? 4 forfeit losses due to a reserve player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrobstercraws Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, On2whls said: On the one hand you have a San Clemente team that had some early OOL losses to a few of the San Diego sections better teams and the game vs MV really meant salvaging the season. On the other hand you had a MV team that after the announcement of the forfeitures has looked deflated. San Clemente rose to the occasion and a swaggerless MV couldn’t muster their normal degree of intensity. Football, after all has a pychological component to it, and MV looks to be on an emotional downswing. We’ll find out a lot about how their new coach guides them through adversity as the playoffs approach. You also had a team who has never lost to SC on any level since 2000. And a team that is sick and tired of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrobstercraws Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 52 minutes ago, Mjd33 said: In the regular season MV played SM in 15 and 16 than Orange Lutheran in 17. So yes, they play tomato cans of the trinity league. Why doesn’t MV play MD or SJB ever in regular season ? Or even corona centennial ? They played MD and beat them. Not the last couple of years. But they both played as Pac 5 teams. CJ's philosophy differs from Sponge Bob. Expect games with SJB and JSerra in the future and maybe Cen10. Sponge Bob ducked Cen10 saying he might face them in the playoffs. The only scheduling they go easy on is when they go to Maui every other year. It's always Baldwin. They should be playing Kahuku or St. Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrobstercraws Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 43 minutes ago, dntn31 said: A lot of that had to do with their old coach refusing to schedule those teams. Now that SJB's former OC is there I wouldn't be surprised to see them start scheduling up more. Exactly CJ won't duck his mentor. I think he wants to play SJB ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjd33 Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, bigrobstercraws said: The only scheduling they go easy on is when they go to Maui every other year. It's always Baldwin. They should be playing Kahuku or St. Louis. Been saying this for years. Waste of money and a plane ride playing Baldwin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrobstercraws Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Just now, Mjd33 said: Been saying this for years. Waste of money and a plane ride playing Baldwin. Sponge Bob had some sort of connection with the admin at Baldwin and Maui itself. St Louis and Kahuku would be much more entertaining match ups. Maybe a home-and-home. St. Louis can definitely afford that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjd33 Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, bigrobstercraws said: Sponge Bob had some sort of connection with the admin at Baldwin and Maui itself. St Louis and Kahuku would be much more entertaining match ups. Maybe a home-and-home. St. Louis can definitely afford that. St. Louis would take them to the woodshed the last few years. spongebob wouldn’t of signed up for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrobstercraws Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mjd33 said: St. Louis would take them to the woodshed the last few years. spongebob wouldn’t of signed up for that Are you saying Narbonne at full strength would do the same to MV? In 2017 when the Bonne had their starters in, it was dead even with St. Louis from a talent stand point. And it showed in the game. No way they do that to MV. They may beat MV, but not the woodshed type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said: I'm not begging for anything. Don't particularly care for MV or OLU. Just don't buy the argument that a 10-0 team that plays programs such as Sunnyslope, or Something something Valley, would have a better record than MV or OLU playing the same schedule. Who are your "solid teams" that are ranked below MV but are not due to perceived bias Well, so you should never object to a Georgia person taking the position of "assumed" superiority of Region 1, 7A then either. That's basically the argument. You won't catch me trying to argue down your position of assumed superiority. Doing so gives credence to the assumption that some other team has to prove something to a team that gets beat weekly in the Trinity League. Some of these other fools may genuflect to OLU and MV because of the league they get beat in. They may as well do the same to Tift and Camden too. I'm not going anywhere near that mess. The polls are stupid for continually doing it and looking foolish each year also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjd33 Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 53 minutes ago, bigrobstercraws said: Are you saying Narbonne at full strength would do the same to MV? St. Louis is much better this year than last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said: I was asking for examples of other teams from other states that are more worthy of being ranked above MV but are not Oh, ok. Well, it's a gorgeous day in southern California. So, not looking to break down all of the teams. But, I'll give you my team. If you're going to make claims of Team A being better than Team B, you need to actually analyze the teams. In depth, position group by position group. Along with analyzing what they'd done on the field obviously. So, let's compare Mission Viejo to Lakeland (Fla). Mission Viejo: On-field record: 8-1 Avg. score of games: 35.4-16, average margin of victory being 19.4 ppg Loss: to San Clemente, record of 5-4 Most difficult victory: Two-point neutral site win over Orange Lutheran, record 5-4. Lakeland: On-field record: 9-0 Avg. score of games: 48.1-5.5, average margin of victory being 42.6 ppg Loss: None Most difficult victory: 17-point road win over Apopka where team's most highly recruited senior didn't play and QB was injured/limited. Position by position, Lakeland (feel free to provide a similar analysis of MV). LAKELAND OFFENSE WR: C. Howard, Sr., started for city rival last year, FCS offers TE: K. Dyer, Sr., 6'5" 275, started for city rival, projected starting OL, was hurt and came back as TE LT: A. Saint-Aime, Sr., 6'2" 270 , three-year starter, low level FBS offers LG: W. Lampkin, Jr., 6'2" 275, started last year for city rival Center: N. Dixon, So., 6'2" 285, future prospect? RG: T. Howe, Sr., 6'1" 255, returning starter RT: D. Hammond, Sr., 6'4" 350, 4* Under Armour All-American, three-year starter, transfer back from IMG TE: K. Zipperer, Sr., 6'3" 230, 4* Under Armour All-American, three-year starter WR: D. Graham, Sr., started in state title game vs. Carol City in 2016, lit up Venice in 2018 spring scrimmage QB: D. McWilliams, Sr., four-year starter at QB, last three at city rival, coming back from injury first several games of 2018. RB: D. Bowman, Jr., returning starter, 4* rated #38 player overall nationally in class of 2020 LAKELAND DEFENSE DE: A.J. Thomas, Sr., 6'0", 210, three-year starter, former RB with legit 4.5-4.6 speed, most productive DL on team DT: L. Jean, Sr., 6'3" 260, three-year starter, 3* recruit as a DE DT: T. Huntley, Sr., 6'3" 235, three-year starter, 3* recruit as DE, legacy player DE: L. Summerall, Sr., 6'6", 210, three-year starter transfer, 4* recruit as DE/OLB OLB: K. Crawford, Sr., returning starter, 2*, All-metro as a sophomore at Prattville, Al, Navy commit MLB: J. Martin, Sr., three-year starter, started in 2016 state title game vs. Carol City, low-level FBS offers OLB: J. Hampton, Sr., returning starter, undersized, not recruited, but starting over a recruitable Jr. LB CB: F. Graham, Jr., returning starter, 3* recruit with offers from Utah, Nebraska, UNC others CB: T. Nixon, Taylor, Srs., solid, speedy but not yet recruited S: T. Ware, Sr., started last year for city rival LG, solid not sure if recruited S: Q. Hall, Jr., started last year as RB and played some late season at safety, hitter, may end up recruited Also notable, 10 players have played meaningful snaps on the DL, including 4* Zipperer and Dyer LAKELAND SPECIAL TEAMS: K/P: J. Hohenthaner, D1 offers as punter KR/PR: F. Graham 3* recruit with numerous huge returns Team has blocked a ton of punts and kicks. Not sure of exact number. So, based on all of that, where do you see Mission Viejo as having an advanatge and warranting a higher ranking than Lakeland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, badrouter said: Oh, ok. Well, it's a gorgeous day in southern California. So, not looking to break down all of the teams. But, I'll give you my team. If you're going to make claims of Team A being better than Team B, you need to actually analyze the teams. In depth, position group by position group. Along with analyzing what they'd done on the field obviously. So, let's compare Mission Viejo to Lakeland (Fla). Mission Viejo: On-field record: 8-1 Avg. score of games: 35.4-16, average margin of victory being 19.4 ppg Loss: to San Clemente, record of 5-4 Most difficult victory: Two-point neutral site win over Orange Lutheran, record 5-4. Lakeland: On-field record: 9-0 Avg. score of games: 48.1-5.5, average margin of victory being 42.6 ppg Loss: None Most difficult victory: 17-point road win over Apopka where team's most highly recruited senior didn't play and QB was injured/limited. Position by position, Lakeland (feel free to provide a similar analysis of MV). LAKELAND OFFENSE WR: C. Howard, Sr., started for city rival last year, FCS offers TE: K. Dyer, Sr., 6'5" 275, started for city rival, projected starting OL, was hurt and came back as TE LT: A. Saint-Aime, Sr., 6'2" 270 , three-year starter, low level FBS offers LG: W. Lampkin, Jr., 6'2" 275, started last year for city rival Center: N. Dixon, So., 6'2" 285, future prospect? RG: T. Howe, Sr., 6'1" 255, returning starter RT: D. Hammond, Sr., 6'4" 350, 4* Under Armour All-American, three-year starter, transfer back from IMG TE: K. Zipperer, Sr., 6'3" 230, 4* Under Armour All-American, three-year starter WR: D. Graham, Sr., started in state title game vs. Carol City in 2016, lit up Venice in 2018 spring scrimmage QB: D. McWilliams, Sr., four-year starter at QB, last three at city rival, coming back from injury first several games of 2018. RB: D. Bowman, Jr., returning starter, 4* rated #38 player overall nationally in class of 2020 LAKELAND DEFENSE DE: A.J. Thomas, Sr., 6'0", 210, three-year starter, former RB with legit 4.5-4.6 speed, most productive DL on team DT: L. Jean, Sr., 6'3" 260, three-year starter, 3* recruit as a DE DT: T. Huntley, Sr., 6'3" 235, three-year starter, 3* recruit as DE, legacy player DE: L. Summerall, Sr., 6'6", 210, three-year starter transfer, 4* recruit as DE/OLB OLB: K. Crawford, Sr., returning starter, 2*, All-metro as a sophomore at Prattville, Al, Navy commit MLB: J. Martin, Sr., three-year starter, started in 2016 state title game vs. Carol City, low-level FBS offers OLB: J. Hampton, Sr., returning starter, undersized, not recruited, but starting over a recruitable Jr. LB CB: F. Graham, Jr., returning starter, 3* recruit with offers from Utah, Nebraska, UNC others CB: T. Nixon, Taylor, Srs., solid, speedy but not yet recruited S: T. Ware, Sr., started last year for city rival LG, solid not sure if recruited S: Q. Hall, Jr., started last year as RB and played some late season at safety, hitter, may end up recruited Also notable, 10 players have played meaningful snaps on the DL, including 4* Zipperer and Dyer LAKELAND SPECIAL TEAMS: K/P: J. Hohenthaner, D1 offers as punter KR/PR: F. Graham 3* recruit with numerous huge returns Team has blocked a ton of punts and kicks. Not sure of exact number. So, based on all of that, where do you see Mission Viejo as having an advanatge and warranting a higher ranking than Lakeland? But they beat OLU. Fold up your little Dreadnaught tent and go home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: But they beat OLU. Fold up your little Dreadnaught tent and go home. Also, calpreps computer rankings! LMAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, badrouter said: Oh, ok. Well, it's a gorgeous day in southern California. So, not looking to break down all of the teams. But, I'll give you my team. If you're going to make claims of Team A being better than Team B, you need to actually analyze the teams. In depth, position group by position group. Along with analyzing what they'd done on the field obviously. So, let's compare Mission Viejo to Lakeland (Fla). Mission Viejo: On-field record: 8-1 Avg. score of games: 35.4-16, average margin of victory being 19.4 ppg Loss: to San Clemente, record of 5-4 Most difficult victory: Two-point neutral site win over Orange Lutheran, record 5-4. Lakeland: On-field record: 9-0 Avg. score of games: 48.1-5.5, average margin of victory being 42.6 ppg Loss: None Most difficult victory: 17-point road win over Apopka where team's most highly recruited senior didn't play and QB was injured/limited. Position by position, Lakeland (feel free to provide a similar analysis of MV). LAKELAND OFFENSE WR: C. Howard, Sr., started for city rival last year, FCS offers TE: K. Dyer, Sr., 6'5" 275, started for city rival, projected starting OL, was hurt and came back as TE LT: A. Saint-Aime, Sr., 6'2" 270 , three-year starter, low level FBS offers LG: W. Lampkin, Jr., 6'2" 275, started last year for city rival Center: N. Dixon, So., 6'2" 285, future prospect? RG: T. Howe, Sr., 6'1" 255, returning starter RT: D. Hammond, Sr., 6'4" 350, 4* Under Armour All-American, three-year starter, transfer back from IMG TE: K. Zipperer, Sr., 6'3" 230, 4* Under Armour All-American, three-year starter WR: D. Graham, Sr., started in state title game vs. Carol City in 2016, lit up Venice in 2018 spring scrimmage QB: D. McWilliams, Sr., four-year starter at QB, last three at city rival, coming back from injury first several games of 2018. RB: D. Bowman, Jr., returning starter, 4* rated #38 player overall nationally in class of 2020 LAKELAND DEFENSE DE: A.J. Thomas, Sr., 6'0", 210, three-year starter, former RB with legit 4.5-4.6 speed, most productive DL on team DT: L. Jean, Sr., 6'3" 260, three-year starter, 3* recruit as a DE DT: T. Huntley, Sr., 6'3" 235, three-year starter, 3* recruit as DE, legacy player DE: L. Summerall, Sr., 6'6", 210, three-year starter transfer, 4* recruit as DE/OLB OLB: K. Crawford, Sr., returning starter, 2*, All-metro as a sophomore at Prattville, Al, Navy commit MLB: J. Martin, Sr., three-year starter, started in 2016 state title game vs. Carol City, low-level FBS offers OLB: J. Hampton, Sr., returning starter, undersized, not recruited, but starting over a recruitable Jr. LB CB: F. Graham, Jr., returning starter, 3* recruit with offers from Utah, Nebraska, UNC others CB: T. Nixon, Taylor, Srs., solid, speedy but not yet recruited S: T. Ware, Sr., started last year for city rival LG, solid not sure if recruited S: Q. Hall, Jr., started last year as RB and played some late season at safety, hitter, may end up recruited Also notable, 10 players have played meaningful snaps on the DL, including 4* Zipperer and Dyer LAKELAND SPECIAL TEAMS: K/P: J. Hohenthaner, D1 offers as punter KR/PR: F. Graham 3* recruit with numerous huge returns Team has blocked a ton of punts and kicks. Not sure of exact number. So, based on all of that, where do you see Mission Viejo as having an advanatge and warranting a higher ranking than Lakeland? Even if you take Calpreps ratings out of the mix, Lakeland's opponents record is a dismal 33-43. So basically a lot of teams are beating the teams Lakeland beat. #notimpressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said: Even if you take Calpreps ratings out of the mix, Lakeland's opponents record is a dismal 33-43. So basically a lot of teams are beating the teams Lakeland beat. #notimpressed Not exactly comparable depth in your analysis. lol And Alabama's opponents heading out of this weekend will be 27-28, so lots of people beating the teams Alabama beat too. Quote 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, badrouter said: Not exactly comparable depth in your analysis. lol And Alabama's opponents heading out of this weekend will be 27-28, so lots of people beating the teams Alabama beat too. When you factor Laklands best victory is vs. #275 Apokta and their overall opponents are negative 10 in won loss record, it appears that Lakeland went out of their way to schedule teams they though they could compete with. That tells us all we need to know about the confidence Lakelands staff had in their team this year. Why weren't the Fla big boys on the schedule? At least MV and OLU play the big boy schools in Calif. Lakeland not so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBigdaddybloom Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Smdh...you jokers saying mv and Folsom same level as the huskies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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