A New Jersey question

[whiteshoes]

I thought that the state had added another level of playoffs after the Group finals.    If I remember correctly there were going to be seven games on Thanksgiving weekend.   I also have noted that Franklin Lakes Ramapo defeated Summit 42-22 on that weekend according to MaxPreps.    Yet I don't see anything about it anywhere else.  Can anyone help me with this?

[whiteshoes]

I think I found my answer.   It looks like some schools play a Thanksgiving Holiday game after the playoffs end.   However, it appears that on the first weekend of December some teams, like Haddonfield, played a "Bowl" game.

[NYHSFAN33]

15 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

There are still 23 sectional champs in NJ. 3 privates and 20 publics. 

The 20 public 'Champs' played an extra bowl game against each other for the first time this season. Unfortunately, the ten teams that lost their bowl games can still lay claim to a sectional title. LOL

NJ has the worst hsfb playoff system in America. 

If NJ has the worst, NY has to be second.  No way to actually determine who the best team in the state is in any given year.  So ranking teams in NY at years end is a generally useless exercise.

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

Que the stupid Redzone Comment in

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[Nolebull813]

1 hour ago, GardenStateBaller said:

There are still 23 sectional champs in NJ. 3 privates and 20 publics. 

The 20 public 'Champs' played an extra bowl game against each other for the first time this season. Unfortunately, the ten teams that lost their bowl games can still lay claim to a sectional title. LOL

NJ has the worst hsfb playoff system in America. 

Do all 23 games get played at Giants Stadium?

[sausmann9]

32 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Do all 23 games get played at Giants Stadium?

no.  most games are played at a home field (similare to GA back in the day for state title games) or a neutral site depending on visitor bleacher size.

that would be one hell of a fun football weekend but what would be more fun is a 4 class public school plyoff system.

[whiteshoes]

Agree on the New Jersey and New York statement.    I am working on my end of the year state rankings and since you do not have a legitimate playoff system in either state, it is tough to measure.

[noonereal]

15 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

There are still 23 sectional champs in NJ. 3 privates and 20 publics. 

The 20 public 'Champs' played an extra bowl game against each other for the first time this season. Unfortunately, the ten teams that lost their bowl games can still lay claim to a sectional title. LOL

 

what is wrong with that? They did win their section, did they not? 

Unless (unstated) you are saying that they consider themselves state champs with a season ending loss???

[noonereal]

9 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

I'd rather see the Bowl games have significant meaning, which would get NJ down to 13 sectional Champs. A more acceptable number. 

It does not matter how many sectional champs there are. It matters how many state champs there are. 

What is the bowl winner????  Is that the state champ? Or is the sectional winner called a state champ? You never said. 

[noonereal]

4 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

That's what I'm getting at. The winner or loser isn't referred to as anything. It's like a scrimmage that counts towards your final record. It's a farcical game. 

sooooo who wears the state champion jackets? 20 publics or 10 publics? 

5 classes, how many state champs???

[noonereal]

2 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Regardless of the Bowl game outcomes, 20 publics still claim they're state sectional champs. 

 

and how do they explain that they are the state champ but lost their last game to a team in the same class? LOL

 

What then is the point of the bowl games? Do you know?  Does anyone know? Were the games lobbied for by the state trophy association so they could sell more trophies? 

I feel bad for the kids, they have no shot at winning a state championship. 

 

[Hardcore Troubador]

8 hours ago, noonereal said:

and how do they explain that they are the state champ but lost their last game to a team in the same class? LOL

 

What then is the point of the bowl games? Do you know?  Does anyone know? Were the games lobbied for by the state trophy association so they could sell more trophies? 

I feel bad for the kids, they have no shot at winning a state championship. 

 

It was only the first year for the Bowl Games (think of them as “Regional Championships”) and it will take time for the games to mean anything and to break the lazy mentality a lot of coaches have about being “State (Sectional) Champions”.  

(I continue to remain shocked how these supposedly badass, hard charging football coaches in NJ are total pussies and constantly complain about extra games, starting the season early, no Thanksgiving games, etc).

As to your question re: what’s the point.  I think the Bowl Games were designed as a test to see how the state and teams can handle an extra round of playoffs with an eye toward taking that final extra step in a few years to another round and true state championships.  Towards that end next season I expect the almost everyone to start the season at the end of August, the Thanksgiving games are almost all gone, and in the regular season most public teams will opt for an 8 game regular season not 9.  We will have true State Champions happen in NJ in the next few years.  Patience!

[Hardcore Troubador]

On 12/31/2018 at 5:42 PM, GardenStateBaller said:

There are still 23 sectional champs in NJ. 3 privates and 20 publics. 

The 20 public 'Champs' played an extra bowl game against each other for the first time this season. Unfortunately, the ten teams that lost their bowl games can still lay claim to a sectional title. LOL

NJ has the worst hsfb playoff system in America. 

Give it time.  The mentality will eventually change and emerging out of your section won’t mean jack without a state title at the end of the road.

[Hardcore Troubador]

5 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

NJ hsfb will always be defined by the NPG4 Champion. Hoping SJR stays put in this class going fwd. No reason to regress back to G3. 

No argument there.  Just saying that among the public schools,the mentality will eventually change.

[noonereal]

6 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

NJ hsfb will always be defined by the NPG4 Champion. Hoping SJR stays put in this class going fwd. No reason to regress back to G3. 

Time changes all. 

[noonereal]

6 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Disagree. The participation trophy mentality is as prominent as ever and will never cease. Ramapo won its Bowl Game making them the first 13-win team in the history of njhsfb. They're actually proud of that and promoting it. They beat Summit in that game, who is still considered a Champion. Laughable. 

It's silly if they consider themselves state champion it's fine and they should be proud to consider themselves sectional champion.

Here in NY we have sectional champs then we have regional champs then we have state champ. Our sectional champ comes from a group with more teams than does the NJ non public state group. 

No reason not to celebrate a section title as long as you call it what it is. 

[Fred]

On 12/31/2018 at 5:42 PM, GardenStateBaller said:

There are still 23 sectional champs in NJ. 3 privates and 20 publics. 

The 20 public 'Champs' played an extra bowl game against each other for the first time this season. Unfortunately, the ten teams that lost their bowl games can still lay claim to a sectional title. LOL

NJ has the worst hsfb playoff system in America. 

So with 1.4 million people less, there are 23 teams claiming championships as opposed to GA's 8?  I thought we had a lot but we aren't even close to your numbers.

[SJR 04]

On 1/1/2019 at 8:51 AM, GardenStateBaller said:

NJ Top 5:

sjr

bc

spp

dbp

dpc

Dpc got beat by Mater Dei,  and Mater Dei got beat by Red Bank Catholic. Gotta drop them into the 10-15 range

[bc3]

On 12/31/2018 at 5:42 PM, GardenStateBaller said:

There are still 23 sectional champs in NJ. 3 privates and 20 publics. 

The 20 public 'Champs' played an extra bowl game against each other for the first time this season. Unfortunately, the ten teams that lost their bowl games can still lay claim to a sectional title. LOL

NJ has the worst hsfb playoff system in America. 

There's a lot in this thread that I think is silly (Ramapo can't celebrate a 13-0 season? what are you talking about?) but I really don't understand this particular take at all.  This happens in any system.  NJ plays to one state champion in basketball but at the end of the season 19 other schools will get to say they were state sectional champions despite not winning the whole thing. 

Is it the naming that bothers you?  Because the same thing happens all over the country but other places just call it something different.  To pick a random example, Missouri has "Districts" instead of "State Sectionals".  I'm sure the schools that win their districts celebrate winning that even if they don't go on to win the overall state title.

Later in the thread there's something about an acceptable number of state champions - how do you define that exactly?  And do you hold all states to that definition?  

[Hardcore Troubador]

5 minutes ago, bc3 said:

There's a lot in this thread that I think is silly (Ramapo can't celebrate a 13-0 season? what are you talking about?) but I really don't understand this particular take at all.  This happens in any system.  NJ plays to one state champion in basketball but at the end of the season 19 other schools will get to say they were state sectional champions despite not winning the whole thing. 

Is it the naming that bothers you?  Because the same thing happens all over the country but other places just call it something different.  To pick a random example, Missouri has "Districts" instead of "State Sectionals".  I'm sure the schools that win their districts celebrate winning that even if they don't go on to win the overall state title.

Later in the thread there's something about an acceptable number of state champions - how do you define that exactly?  And do you hold all states to that definition?  

Yeah I didn’t quite get that comment.  Ramapo went undefeated and won more games than any team in NJ history.  The players did everything asked of them - they literally won every game the NJSIAA allowed them to play.  I’d be pretty damn proud if I was them.  I mean sure I agree they should just play it down to 5 statewide public champions.  But Ramapo accomplished something big this year.

[HSFBfan]

1 hour ago, bc3 said:

There's a lot in this thread that I think is silly (Ramapo can't celebrate a 13-0 season? what are you talking about?) but I really don't understand this particular take at all.  This happens in any system.  NJ plays to one state champion in basketball but at the end of the season 19 other schools will get to say they were state sectional champions despite not winning the whole thing. 

Is it the naming that bothers you?  Because the same thing happens all over the country but other places just call it something different.  To pick a random example, Missouri has "Districts" instead of "State Sectionals".  I'm sure the schools that win their districts celebrate winning that even if they don't go on to win the overall state title.

Later in the thread there's something about an acceptable number of state champions - how do you define that exactly?  And do you hold all states to that definition?  

If basketball plays down to 1 and lax plays the tournament of champions whoever wins that TOC is the state champ. Anything else is a joke. 

[HSFBfan]

8 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Our state doesn't even allow us to cut cheerleaders during tryouts. We'll always be a participation trophy state. "The more the merrier" is the NJSIAAs montra. And we wonder why the masculinity of young males in our schools is down across the board? We did it to ourselves. Smh. 

 

Couldnt agree with you more. 

[bc3]

8 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Ramapo was able to achieve that "record" because of the additional Bowl game. The win works for them, but the loss doesn't adversely impact Summit, who still gets to call themselves sectional Champs. I just find that hypocritical. 

There were 10 Regional champs; Summit wasn't one of them and Ramapo was.  Not sure how that could be any more clear or how there's anything hypocritical about it.  I'm guessing you have the same complaint of schools from Texas or Iowa or Missouri that don't win state titles but call themselves District champs?  It's a weird thing to complain about.

1 minute ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Our state doesn't even allow us to cut cheerleaders during tryouts. We'll always be a participation trophy state. "The more the merrier" is the NJSIAAs montra. And we wonder why the masculinity of young males in our schools is down across the board? We did it to ourselves. Smh. 

 

This is absurd on many levels.  Not wanting to play down to state champs has a lot more to do with concerns about scheduling than so-called "participation trophies".  Regardless, what exactly would be satisfactory to you and why?  I'm still curious on what your criteria or formula is for an acceptable number of state champions.

[HSFBfan]

19 minutes ago, bc3 said:

There were 10 Regional champs; Summit wasn't one of them and Ramapo was.  Not sure how that could be any more clear or how there's anything hypocritical about it.  I'm guessing you have the same complaint of schools from Texas or Iowa or Missouri that don't win state titles but call themselves District champs?  It's a weird thing to complain about.

This is absurd on many levels.  Not wanting to play down to state champs has a lot more to do with concerns about scheduling than so-called "participation trophies".  Regardless, what exactly would be satisfactory to you and why?  I'm still curious on what your criteria or formula is for an acceptable number of state champions.

Hows 1? You know....State Champion. 

[SJR89]

2 hours ago, HSFBfan said:

If basketball plays down to 1 and lax plays the tournament of champions whoever wins that TOC is the state champ. Anything else is a joke. 

ok young guy...get a clue...so when Northern highlands  wins their first  Group 3 state championship its means nothing......then get in to the TOC and lose ....your out of your mind....When did BC beat Delbarton ????  then went 20-1 in 2014 and lost to Delby...if they won the Non Public A state championships...are they not state champs......get a freaking clue...you come out hard on all these topics...did you ever play...compete ...win....the more you post the more you seem like a brat .....grow up.....