Shadow Creek (TX)

[steeler01]

15 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

You say most OF THE TOP TEAMS, meaning the best of 5A.  then you used Rider as evidence.   🤡 

Mine wasn't vague, I gave an answer...twice.  But we know you'll lie about that too.

Most doesn't equal all

[steeler01]

3 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Like I said last night,your scores come with subjectivity then you act as if you are objectively right about your OPINiON.  You've had this opinion for years and it's hardly impacted my views to date.  Stop thinking more highly of yourself then what others attribute to you.  

My opinion is supported with evidence, your opinion is supported with nothing but your opinion.

[A-Town]

11 hours ago, steeler01 said:

Obviously the scores of the games I've shown throughout the years.  Guru posted the scores I've posted up

You mean like the Aledo Weatherford game from 2009? Aledo played Weatherford nearly every year in the 2000s and you only posted one result. How about the years around that? 

2007 Aledo 49 Weatherford 7

2008 Aledo 37 Weatherford 14

2010 Aledo 48 Weatherford 13

2011 Aledo 50 Weatherford 7

2009's game had a nearly 2 hour lightning delay, Aledo played with a backup QB and lost in overtime in the rain. It was not exactly a typical game. Just taking a cursory glance at some of the others listed had some similar results.

2017 Calallen 53 Johnson 21

2010 Midway 60 Belton 26

Midway also beat Belton in 2012 34 to 16, but both were Old 5A at that point.

2007 Copperas Cove 37 John Tyler 16

Cherrypicking some outliers to help make some general assertions isn't exactly indicitive of trends. If these teams consistently struggled with average 6A teams you would have a stronger argument, but a lot of the losses to those teams were by small margins then they won by much larger margins. Presenting these as evidence as some of the top 5A programs not being able to handle your average 6A programs is just dishonest and silly. 

[Sammyswordsman]

Shadow Creek only beat (5-3) small market Foster by 7 last night.  Dropping them from The Tiers.

 

[Horsefly]

16 minutes ago, steeler01 said:

Guru posted something I did a long time ago. This is over a stretch of time, and it stays on par almost every year. 

 

2006

Old 4A Runner Up Copperas Cove (12-3) lost to Old 5A Tyler (4-7)

Old 4A Champion Alamo Heights (14-1) lost to Old 5A Georgetown (5-5)

2007

Old 4A Champion Lamar Consolidated (13-2) lost to Old 5A Mayde Creek (6-5)

Old 4A Champion Lamar Consolidated (13-2) lost to Old 5A College Park (9-2)

2009

Old 4A Runner Up Longview (14-2) lost to 5A Lufkin (8-3)

Old 4A Champion Aledo (15-1) lost to Old 5A Weatherford (5-5)

2011

Old 4A Waco Midway (12-3) lost to Old 5A Belton (8-3)

2012

Old 4A Champion Cedar Park (14-2) lost to Old 5A Abilene Cooper (9-2)

Old 4A Rider (12-3) lost to Old 5A Abilene Cooper (9-2)

 

 

2016

5A Runner Up Calallen (14-2) lost to 6A Johnson (7-4)

3A Champion Mineola (14-2) lost to 4A Kaufman (8-4)

2017

5A Champion Highland Park (15-1) lost to 6A Rockwall (6-6)

2A Runner Up Refugio (13-2) lost to 4A Navarro (11-2)

Like I said, you post scores with no context, just scores.  As an example a 9-2 team beating one that is 12-3 is not damning, nor is it indicative of the losing team's class "sucking" 2A  13-2 Refugio losing to an 11-2 4A team doesn't mean Refugio " sucks" 

for every posts about lower level losing a game to a higher class, assess the games where the reverse was true...

[Horsefly]

3 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Shadow Creek only beat (5-3) small market Foster by 7 last night.  Dropping them from The Tiers.

 

Who cares Sammy.  I'm sure no one will lose sleep or energy over your inept, fumbling project.  😂 

[steeler01]

Just now, A-Town said:

You mean like the Aledo Weatherford game from 2009? Aledo played Weatherford nearly every year in the 2000s and you only posted one result. How about they years around that? 

2007 Aledo 49 Weatherford 7

2008 Aledo 37 Weatherford 14

2010 Aledo 48 Weatherford 13

2011 Aledo 50 Weatherford 7

2009's game had a nearly 2 hour lightening delay, Aledo played with a backup QB and lost in overtime in the rain. It was not exactly a typical game. Just taking a cursory glance at some of the others listed had some similar results.

2017 Calallen 53 Johnson 21

2010 Midway 60 Belton 26

Midway also beat Belton in 2012 34 to 16, but both were Old 5A at that point.

2007 Copperas Cove 37 John Tyler 16

Cherrypicking some outliers to help make some general assertions isn't exactly indicitive of trends. If these teams consistently struggled with average 6A teams you would have a stronger argument, but a lot of the losses to those teams were by small margins then they won by much larger margins. Presenting these as evidence as some of the top 5A programs not being able to handle your average 6A programs is just dishonest and silly. 

Its not cherry picking. I wouldn't post every game, because they're irrelevant to what I'm saying. Weatherford should never not even once have beaten Aledo. Weatherford is crap.

 

No 5-5 6A team should be beating the top teams from 5A annually. 

[Horsefly]

5 minutes ago, steeler01 said:

My opinion is supported with evidence, your opinion is supported with nothing but your opinion.

Mine is supported by observation, years of it.  Saying something "sucks" is a subjective  label, you are free to have an opinion but stop acting as though it's objective fact.  

[steeler01]

3 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Like I said, you post scores with no context, just scores.  As an example a 9-2 team beating one that is 12-3 is not damning, nor is it indicative of the losing team's class "sucking" 

for every posts about lower level losing a game to a higher class, assess the games where the reverse was true...

Lots of teams in Texas are 9-2 because of the vastness of Texas. It is damning when those teams are beating the 5A semifinalists routinely.

 

Abilene Cooper wasn't even a top 10 team the year given. Losing to Arlington in the playoffs.

[steeler01]

3 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Mine is supported by observation, years of it.  Saying something "sucks" is a subjective  label, you are free to have an opinion but stop acting as though it's objective fact.  

Great, what you're observing should be questioned then.

[steeler01]

13 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Shadow Creek only beat (5-3) small market Foster by 7 last night.  Dropping them from The Tiers.

Shadow Creek is your typical Frog hype team. A couple of years back it was Denton Ryan has many division 1 guys and they're equivalent to this team from OOS dribble(Denton Ryan has had some good teams though)

[A-Town]

4 minutes ago, steeler01 said:

Its not cherry picking. I wouldn't post every game, because they're irrelevant to what I'm saying. Weatherford should never not even once have beaten Aledo. Weatherford is crap.

 

No 5-5 6A team should be beating the top teams from 5A annually. 

I don't disagree that Aledo shouldn't have lost to Weatherford, and even that game 9 times out of 10 they wouldn't and most of those wouldn't be close as history indicates, but that game in particular was an outlier just as I imagine a number of those examples are. That particular one had a lot of outside factors that had a large impact on the game and Aledo played overly conservatively which kept the game close. The disagreement comes from using these as evidence for a trend and general statement of programs top 5A teams struggling with average 6A teams as none of these examples are evidence of this as they show one off examples without context.

[steeler01]

3 minutes ago, A-Town said:

I don't disagree that Aledo shouldn't have lost to Weatherford, and even that game 9 times out of 10 they wouldn't and most of those wouldn't be close as history indicates, but that game in particular was an outlier just as I imagine a number of those examples are. That particular one had a lot of outside factors that had a large impact on the game and Aledo played overly conservatively which kept the game close. The disagreement comes from using these as evidence for a trend and general statement of programs top 5A teams struggling with average 6A teams as none of these examples are evidence of this as they show one off examples without context.

What they show, is that the top teams are usually playing at that level. Not always, but mostly.

 

If this was used for any other state, nobody would argue it, but because it challenges the people with the biggest inferiority complex in the states, we have 16 pages.

[Horsefly]

14 minutes ago, steeler01 said:

Great, what you're observing should be questioned then.

Not really as an example I watched 6-6 Rockwall,in 2017, I saw their potential as a team and saw it manifest itself in their domination over woodlands.  So them beating HP in week 1 wasn't shocking.  

In that same year we also witnessed 11-2 5A colleyville heritage beat an 11-3 trinity 31-14.  The same colleyville team that was throttled by aledo 38-21 wk 1

Where is that in the assessment ?

[A-Town]

1 minute ago, steeler01 said:

What they show, is that the top teams are usually playing at that level. Not always, but mostly.

 

If this was used for any other state, nobody would argue it, but because it challenges the people with the biggest inferiority complex in the states, we have 16 pages.

If they were usually playing at that level, you would have more than just 2 examples per year, especially since as I pointed out Aledo played Weatherford 4 other times in that same time period and never had a similar result. The other examples given dispute that notion as well as if the top teams usually played at that level, you wouldn't see those top teams beating them by larger margins in matchups in the same time frame in years where they aren't getting as good of results. A 2008 Second Round 4A exit Aledo team shouldn't beat a Weatherford team 37 to 14 if it's typical for a State Champion 4A team to lose to them.

[The Guru]

6 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Not really as an example I watched 6-6 Rockwall,in 2017, I saw their potential as a team and saw it manifest itself in their domination over woodlands.  So them beating HP in week 1 wasn't shocking. 

It wasn't shocking because Highland Park sucks.

I love it though.

You saw 6-6 Rockwall's "potential."

🤡

 

[steeler01]

8 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Not really as an example I watched 6-6 Rockwall,in 2017, I saw their potential as a team and saw it manifest itself in their domination over woodlands.  So them beating HP in week 1 wasn't shocking.  

So give us your shocker this year. 

[steeler01]

4 minutes ago, A-Town said:

If they were usually playing at that level, you would have more than just 2 examples per year, especially since as I pointed out Aledo played Weatherford 4 other times in that same time period and never had a similar result. The other examples given dispute that notion as well as if the top teams usually played at that level, you wouldn't see those top teams beating them by larger margins in matchups in the same time frame in years where they aren't getting as good of results. A 2008 Second Round 4A exit Aledo team shouldn't beat a Weatherford team 37 to 14 if it's typical for a State Champion 4A team to lose to them.

The interplay is minimal and that was done a couple of years ago.I haven't done the score stuff in a couple of years.

[Horsefly]

Just now, steeler01 said:

The interplay is minimal and that was done a couple of years ago.I haven't done the score stuff in a couple of years.

@DevilDog  please post your class interplay scores.  Thanks. I know you have a deep database 

[steeler01]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

@DevilDog  please post your class interplay scores.  Thanks. I know you have a deep database 

He'll end up posting the 68th best team in 5A beating the 128th best team in 6A as some sort of evidence. That proves absolutely nothing.

[Horsefly]

Let's cut to the chase, I already stated the top teams for me are the top 4-5 in each class that are legitimate contenders for a title.  So when you say most, to me that is the majority of the collected top 10 in 5A.  

 

42 minutes ago, steeler01 said:

Most doesn't equal all

 

[steeler01]

20 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Not really as an example I watched 6-6 Rockwall,in 2017, I saw their potential as a team and saw it manifest itself in their domination over woodlands.  So them beating HP in week 1 wasn't shocking.  

HP was the best team in 5A. Rockwall beating them supports what I've been saying.

 

The best teams are usually 3rd to 4th round 6A teams. 

 

After that, you get the teams that are 1st and 2 round teams. Which is what 5A is littered with after the 4 or 5 teams at the top.

[Horsefly]

7 minutes ago, steeler01 said:

HP was the best team in 5A. Rockwall beating them supports what I've been saying.

 

The best teams are usually 3rd to 4th round 6A teams. 

 

After that drop, you get the teams that are 1st and 2 round teams. Which is what 5A is littered with after the 4 or 5 teams at the top.

HP played out of their asses to beat manvel that year, that was a storybook season for them.

5A tops might be 3-4 rounds in 6A.  That's not what I object, I don't agree that then means the class "sucks". 

[steeler01]

2 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

HP played out of their asses to beat manvel that year, that was a storybook season for them.

5A tops might be 3-4 rounds in 6A.  That's not what I object, I don't agree that then means the class "sucks". The majority is mediocre compared to the best in 5A, just like 6A.  

Well then that's your problem.You can't accept it

[DevilDog]

23 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

@DevilDog  please post your class interplay scores.  Thanks. I know you have a deep database 

it's not worth the effort to me.  You can't change someone's mind.  I am good with it and what I have.   HP is 9 -1 all time vs.  Rockwall that's why it's not worth it and Aledo beat a top ranked 6A last year. This year they lose close game and 5A suck.  🤣 I am off to eat some BBQ and watch football with the Redskin.   Say 5A suck and enjoy your day sir.  See you in the Playoffs watching all our sorry football. 

5A HP vs. Rockwall all time

8/30/2019 66-59 (W) 
8/31/2018 49-42 (W)
9/1/2017 53-49 (L)
8/26/2016 43-21 (W)
9/23/2011 56-31 (W)
9/24/2010 37-30 (W)
10/30/2009 63-42 (W)
10/31/2008 49-39 (W)
9/2/2005 35-16 (W)
9/3/2004 35-24 (W)

 

6A Longview vs.  (Rockwall, TX) 8-0

9/27/2019 49-3 (W)  

10/6/2017 31-21 (W)

9/30/2016 36-29 (W)

11/8/2013 41-7 (W)

11/9/2012 40-7 (W)

10/14/2005 37-35 (W)

10/15/2004 14-10 (W)