Emails with Fauci and Francis Collins

[badrouter]

It’s now clear that they knew a lab leak was very possible- if not likely- and they made the decision to suppress any/all discussion of this. You don’t have to be anti-science or anti-vaccines to be disturbed by this. Leftist reporter details the emails.

[On2whls]

9 hours ago, badrouter said:

It’s now clear that they knew a lab leak was very possible- if not likely- and they made the decision to suppress any/all discussion of this. You don’t have to be anti-science or anti-vaccines to be disturbed by this. Leftist reporter details the emails.

Warning, nobody should waste their time listening to the unabashedly irresponsible, factually barren, unpatriotic, domestic terrorism inspired evil narrative found in the link, when the truth about the origins of Covid is irrefutably understood.

A Chines mountain bat dizzy with virulence induced radar malfunction crashed headlong, mouth agape, into an innocently foraging pangolin near a remote mountain village, whereby a scavenging villager wandered upon the dazed pair.  The villager scooped the pair into a sack and hurried his fortuitous acquisition to the Wuhan wet market gratefully bartering for a small sack of rice.  That evening a hungry Wuhan Institute of Virology worker eagerly purchased the wares bringing the delicacy home for for much anticipated consumption. Years of city life left him unskilled in the old ways of pangolin preparation and bat basting, causing him to break all the rules, inadvertently becoming infected.  The unsuspecting worker returned to work in apparent good health but was obviously the first asymptomatic spreader, transmitting the virus to coworkers and acquaintances in Wuhan.  The rest as they say, is history.  There can be no other explanation if you follow the science🙄

[badrouter]

13 hours ago, On2whls said:

Warning, nobody should waste their time listening to the unabashedly irresponsible, factually barren, unpatriotic, domestic terrorism inspired evil narrative found in the link, when the truth about the origins of Covid is irrefutably understood.

A Chines mountain bat dizzy with virulence induced radar malfunction crashed headlong, mouth agape, into an innocently foraging pangolin near a remote mountain village, whereby a scavenging villager wandered upon the dazed pair.  The villager scooped the pair into a sack and hurried his fortuitous acquisition to the Wuhan wet market gratefully bartering for a small sack of rice.  That evening a hungry Wuhan Institute of Virology worker eagerly purchased the wares bringing the delicacy home for for much anticipated consumption. Years of city life left him unskilled in the old ways of pangolin preparation and bat basting, causing him to break all the rules, inadvertently becoming infected.  The unsuspecting worker returned to work in apparent good health but was obviously the first asymptomatic spreader, transmitting the virus to coworkers and acquaintances in Wuhan.  The rest as they say, is history.  There can be no other explanation if you follow the science🙄

You forgot to mention the systemic racism the bat experienced. 

[On2whls]

2 hours ago, badrouter said:

You forgot to mention the systemic racism the bat experienced. 

Seriously though, the general public is unable to comprehend the intricacies of genetic sequences and has to rely on scientists that do to unravel the actual most likely chain of events.  What is needed is a comprehensive investigation by unbiased experts in the field, not government paid employees whose job is to protect the interests of the government first, and the interests of the people second. 
As was mentioned, Covid is out of the bag and isn’t going back in.  We might not be as lucky if another such virus comes on the scene under similarly dubious circumstances.  Imagine the impact of a virus with even a marginally higher mortality rate but with equal transmissivity and similarly mutagenic.

[Atticus Finch]

On 1/14/2022 at 3:11 PM, badrouter said:

It’s now clear that they knew a lab leak was very possible- if not likely- and they made the decision to suppress any/all discussion of this. You don’t have to be anti-science or anti-vaccines to be disturbed by this. Leftist reporter details the emails.

That video is 14 minutes of nothing.

The emails are all redacted. The commentary on it is basically from Republicans who wrote notes when they viewed the unredacted emails.

Half of the video is just that bozo Ryan Grim giving his commentary. Most of which is patently absurd on it's face. He claims that there's not a political angle from which Republicans like Rand Paul are viewing this issue. Every thinking person spit out their drink all over the screen at that suggestion.

The early denials of the lab leak theory were in the same vain as the early claims that masks won't work to stop COVID: they wanted to stop reckless speculation at the very beginning of the pandemic.

Should they have been less forceful? Yes but what was the alternative at the time? Spending scarce time and resources investigating a potential lab leak in the middle of a pandemic and in the hyper-partisan Trump era during an election year?

Get real.

[Atticus Finch]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:36 PM, On2whls said:

What is needed is a comprehensive investigation by unbiased experts in the field, not government paid employees whose job is to protect the interests of the government first, and the interests of the people second. 

Biden already called for an intelligence investigation.

Biden orders spy agencies to review whether COVID-19 came from Wuhan lab

It's findings?

No proof of anything.

But who would be your "unbiased" experts?

This should be good.

[On2whls]

2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

Biden already called for an intelligence investigation.

Biden orders spy agencies to review whether COVID-19 came from Wuhan lab

Seriously, “spy agencies” to investigate the intricacies of possible modification of viral genomes.  Why not just have those same agencies come up with vaccines?  

The spy agencies work for the government so they could hardly be described as unbiased.  

2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

But who would be your "unbiased" experts?

Maybe take some experts in viral genetics, virologists, genetics sequencing, and statistics, appointed by a panel of researchers with oversight by the same panel.

 

2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

No proof of anything.

Why would anyone expect “spies” to come up with meaningful findings related to technical issues way outside their core competency?

[badrouter]

3 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

That video is 14 minutes of nothing.

The emails are all redacted. The commentary on it is basically from Republicans who wrote notes when they viewed the unredacted emails.

Half of the video is just that bozo Ryan Grim giving his commentary. Most of which is patently absurd on it's face. He claims that there's not a political angle from which Republicans like Rand Paul are viewing this issue. Every thinking person spit out their drink all over the screen at that suggestion.

The early denials of the lab leak theory were in the same vain as the early claims that masks won't work to stop COVID: they wanted to stop reckless speculation at the very beginning of the pandemic.

Should they have been less forceful? Yes but what was the alternative at the time? Spending scarce time and resources investigating a potential lab leak in the middle of a pandemic and in the hyper-partisan Trump era during an election year?

Get real.

They've operated under the assumption that some distortions of truth, some omissions of facts, and employment of a media apparatus happy to suppress anyone/anything they didn't like was the best approach to this. They've been proven wrong, spectacularly. Citizens are owed the truth, and full transparency from their government. Particularly when government has elected to go with unprecedented, draconian restrictions and mandates.

It is now quite clear that Fauci and Collins have worked to crush critics of their work. Let's not forget Collins' email to Fauci and others urging "there needs to be a quick and devastating published take down..." of the people behind the Great Barrington Declaration, which included a Nobel Prize winner. These guys allowed themselves to be dragged down into the partisan pig pen, and they've got mud all over themselves.  

[Atticus Finch]

2 hours ago, On2whls said:

The spy agencies work for the government so they could hardly be described as unbiased.  

This is incredibly stupid and basically invalidates every investigation ever and certainly any investigation into the origins of COVID.

So basically exactly what I mocked you for.

[Atticus Finch]

2 hours ago, On2whls said:

Maybe take some experts in viral genetics, virologists, genetics sequencing, and statistics, appointed by a panel of researchers with oversight by the same panel.

You would dismiss them since they would inevitably come from some government somewhere.

[Atticus Finch]

59 minutes ago, badrouter said:

They've operated under the assumption that some distortions of truth, some omissions of facts, and employment of a media apparatus happy to suppress anyone/anything they didn't like was the best approach to this.

They operated under the assumption that (1) distorting the truth on masks in the beginning was necessary to stop a run on PPE that would harm healthcare workers and (2) that tamping down speculation on the origins of COVID in April 2020 would keep the focus on the most important thing which was, you know, the current pandemic.

Like most reasonable people I don't think these two things have much to do with the loss of public trust in the CDC or the government in general. They certainly don't look good but there are political opportunists and ignorant conspiracy theorists who would be pushing these narratives regardless.

[Atticus Finch]

48 minutes ago, badrouter said:

They've been proven wrong, spectacularly.

If there were public scorecards on this "they" would have been proven wrong far less than any other person or organization you could name.

[Atticus Finch]

49 minutes ago, badrouter said:

Citizens are owed the truth, and full transparency from their government. Particularly when government has elected to go with unprecedented, draconian restrictions and mandates.

The truth is the same as it was in April 2020: nobody knows for certain what the origins of COVID were. The government's denials haven't stopped reckless speculation about it either.

So your whining about it seems utterly pointless. I want to know the truth too but I'd also like the pandemic to be over.

[Atticus Finch]

51 minutes ago, badrouter said:

It is now quite clear that Fauci and Collins have worked to crush critics of their work. 

No shit.

This is the stupidest criticism imaginable.

Of course in the middle of 100-year pandemic the leading scientists were concerned that reckless speculation from partisan actors was a threat to the national and international response.

They were right.

If you go through anybody's emails you can stir up shit any which way you want. It's a fishing expedition.

[Atticus Finch]

54 minutes ago, badrouter said:

These guys allowed themselves to be dragged down into the partisan pig pen, and they've got mud all over themselves.  

This is utterly mindless.

Rand Paul is currently trying to drag them into a partisan pig pen and would be doing so anyway regardless of what they said in 2020.

Your posts are unceasingly moronic.

[On2whls]

10 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

This is incredibly stupid and basically invalidates every investigation ever and certainly any investigation into the origins of COVID.

So basically exactly what I mocked you for.

You must have a government job there comrade.  

[concha]

1 hour ago, On2whls said:

You must have a government job there comrade.  

 

Andy is indeed a gubmint clerk.

 

[Atticus Finch]

The arguments and evidence provided by the anti-vax, anti-establishment crowd never get any better.

It's endless incompetence by people like on2whls and others.

[badrouter]

11 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

They operated under the assumption that (1) distorting the truth on masks in the beginning was necessary to stop a run on PPE that would harm healthcare workers and (2) that tamping down speculation on the origins of COVID in April 2020 would keep the focus on the most important thing which was, you know, the current pandemic.

Like most reasonable people I don't think these two things have much to do with the loss of public trust in the CDC or the government in general. They certainly don't look good but there are political opportunists and ignorant conspiracy theorists who would be pushing these narratives regardless.

Yes, I understand their rationale for distorting the truth on those issues. The goal was to impact human behavior in ways deemed favorable. In retrospect, are we really to believe the approach was a success, given the immense backlash from much of the public precisely because of the distortions? 
 

I think you are vastly overstating the “political opportunist” impact, and vastly understating the backlash coming from perfectly reasonable people who feel betrayed and manipulated. You seem to have missed the significant number of folks like myself who have literally done a 180 on supporting these agencies from spring 2020 to present.

[badrouter]

11 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

If there were public scorecards on this "they" would have been proven wrong far less than any other person or organization you could name.

That’s just not the case. There’s a very long list of scientists- including epidemiologists and MPHs- who’ve been calling outcomes many months ahead of when the CDC got around to aligning themselves with reality. It’s long been understood that schools were  not major vectors of disease; it’s long been understood cloth masks are useless; it’s long been understood SARS-CoV-2 would become endemic and thus “ZeroCovid” was a futile, stupid and ultimately criminal pursuit. I could go on. 
 

It seems that, just as with the rest of politics, the more vocal, radical voices end up pulling the train off the tracks. Eric Feigl-Ding was a nobody who’s only “claim to fame” was a failed run for low level political office in Pennsylvania. Then he switched careers to become a professional alarmist on Twitter (who’s followed there by Rochelle Walensky!). He’s not an infectious disease doctor, and there’s absolutely no other reason to put any special credence into what he says. And yet he’s now a darling of major leftist media outlets. People forget that he’s a nobody without the incessant alarmism. 

[badrouter]

11 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

The truth is the same as it was in April 2020: nobody knows for certain what the origins of COVID were. The government's denials haven't stopped reckless speculation about it either.

So your whining about it seems utterly pointless. I want to know the truth too but I'd also like the pandemic to be over.

The “whining” is necessary until these folks come forward and say, quite simply, “We intentionally worked to undermine certain ideas because we made a determination that those ideas circulating would make our jobs harder. We recognize the need for robust scientific debate, and apologize for working to squash it. We have a very hard job, and we allowed the stress of the job to lead us to be unfair, unjust and dishonest to individuals and groups at times.” Then, legacy and social media must also be exposed as agents of the government (only when they like the party in charge at the time) who’ve unfairly silenced or shamed people for sharing plausible ideas that were merely inconvenient to the people in charge. Mentioning that the virus may have emerged from a lab in Wuhan was long treated as “dangerous misinformation” worthy of derision and even being banned from a platform. And yet, all along, everyone in charge knee full well it was plausible.

[Atticus Finch]

17 minutes ago, badrouter said:

Yes, I understand their rationale for distorting the truth on those issues. The goal was to impact human behavior in ways deemed favorable. In retrospect, are we really to believe the approach was a success, given the immense backlash from much of the public precisely because of the distortions? 

No, because I assume they didn't think that they would be having to mandate mask-wearing mere months after making those statements.

As for the lab leak theory, it has been a non-issue since nothing has come of it and it's only being used by political actors like Rand Paul to fundraise and attack his enemies.

Why he views Fauci as an enemy would require a much deeper dive into Rand Paul's mind and political motivations.

[Atticus Finch]

20 minutes ago, badrouter said:

I think you are vastly overstating the “political opportunist” impact, and vastly understating the backlash coming from perfectly reasonable people who feel betrayed and manipulated. 

Who are these perfectly reasonable people? For christ sakes the same people who are whining about being lied to are the same ones who didn't care one iota when Donald Trump lied to them every day for 4 years.

This angle of attack is so flimsy as to be laughable.

[badrouter]

11 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

No shit.

This is the stupidest criticism imaginable.

Of course in the middle of 100-year pandemic the leading scientists were concerned that reckless speculation from partisan actors was a threat to the national and international response.

They were right.

If you go through anybody's emails you can stir up shit any which way you want. It's a fishing expedition.

They would help themselves immensely if they would simply own it. As it stands now, it’s a decidedly CCP approach being used. The CCP also disallows criticism for the same reasons: it’s no fun having your decisions, policies or broader authority questioned.

[Atticus Finch]

21 minutes ago, badrouter said:

You seem to have missed the significant number of folks like myself who have literally done a 180 on supporting these agencies from spring 2020 to present.

You do not come across as a reasonable person.