Horsefly Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, concha said: If you are trying to act like you're smart, you might want to work on your history. The Great Wall, and its antecedents dating back two or three millennia, were instrumental in keeping the horse peoples out of China for a long time. Walls, barriers and fences are still used used today for security in this country and all over the world. The Clinton compound in Chappaqua NY has one. George Soros' estate in the Hamptons has a massive wall. Nancy Pelosi's Napa vineyard has a wall. And scores of countries around the world use them including building them in modern times. The very notion that walls don't work is, quite frankly, stupid. REALLY stupid. Walls create time, effort and expense impediments that allow guards and technology to be more effective. Fine companies for hiring illegals. All for it. Go after visas overstays. All for it. Neither of the above are an argument against a wall. They are simply other issues to be addressed. But the job of our government, with its abundant resources, is to plan with ALL those fixes considered...but it’s not. The wall is briefed as THE answer, thus it’s costs outweigh the benefit. thats why I’ve said the plan was not laid out well. Brief congress and the people on the Gov tiered plan that includes a wall, fines and other increased measures, etc. Unless of course there are other motives for the wall....🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Troll said: Easy borders are easy connections and distribution, and lend to the trade regardless of nationality. And when you are 'already illegal' or have no debt due to a nation, you have less incentive to follow it's laws...you could probably even check the stats on that one LOL. And not sure why you keep injecting Trump into a debate over wall requirements and effectiveness.... Both are actually predetermined and a given...… so I guess your only argument here is with Trump's implementation...… At least it's better to admit that, than to admit willful ignorance....🤔 You use borders loosely. Our borders can be breached by air, land and sea. And seeing as drug smuggling is a US concern, those breaches happen more by air and sea than by human mules. Read my comment to conch. Of course trump is at the center he’s been advocating for the wall as THE fix before he took office. It was his campaign promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Just now, Horsefly said: But the job of our government, with its abundant resources, is to plan with ALL those fixes considered...but it’s not. The wall is briefed as THE answer, No. Untrue. thus it’s costs outweigh the benefit. thats why I’ve said the plan was not laid out well. Brief congress and the people on the Gov tiered plan that includes a wall, fines and other increased measures, etc. Unless of course there are other motives for the wall....🤔 I don't recall Trump arguing against and blocking the notions of technology, visa overstays etc. The one big "No" out there is against the wall. Why just the wall? And please spare me the idiotic "walls don't work" schtick. It's epically retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Horsefly said: Read my comment to conch. Of course trump is at the center he’s been advocating for the wall as THE fix before he took office. It was his campaign promise. So why are you letting your view of what a wall really does, be distorted by someone else's advocacy??? What he "say's" in no way effects that..... But what It DOES explain, is why many are 'against it'...…. even when they 'know better'..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, concha said: I don't recall Trump arguing against and blocking the notions of technology, visa overstays etc. The one big "No" out there is against the wall. Why just the wall? And please spare me the idiotic "walls don't work" schtick. It's epically retarded. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/09/11/president-trumps-claim-that-a-wall-will-stop-much-of-the-drugs-from-pouring-into-this-country/?utm_term=.4a8690779f34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Horsefly said: You use borders loosely. Our borders can be breached by air, land and sea. And seeing as drug smuggling is a US concern, those breaches happen more by air and sea than by human mules. And what is so hard to recognize that any drug trade is secondary to the larger issue of illegal immigration as a whole??? Can't address that one first?... or does it not help the 'keep the borders porous' schtick..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Troll said: So why are you letting your view of what a wall really does, be distorted by someone else's advocacy??? What he "say's" in no way effects that..... But what It DOES explain, is why many are 'against it'...…. even when they 'know better'..... I listened and read the current situation and assessment from the experts, and compared that to how effective a wall would be in curbing the problem as I see it. my beliefs were CONFIRMED by others critique. It didn’t happen in reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Horsefly said: I listened and read the current situation and assessment from the experts, and compared that to how effective a wall would be in curbing the problem as I see it. my beliefs were CONFIRMED by others critique. It didn’t happen in reverse. Then show the class your expert's advise and assessment, which you deferred to, on how a wall is not effective means of prevention.... I can make some popcorn....this should be good LOLOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 It is truly astounding how people do mental gymnastics about this. If you are a hopeful illegal immigrant - all else being equal - do you try to cross where there are physical barriers or where the frontier is wide open? Would more people cross a border that has a wall or one that does not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Troll said: Then show the class your expert's advise and assessment, which you deferred to, on how a wall is not effective means of prevention.... I can make some popcorn....this should be good LOLOL The Secret Service in 2106 made plans to increase the height of the wall around the WH. It wan't for purely decorative purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, concha said: It is truly astounding how people do mental gymnastics about this. If you are a hopeful illegal immigrant - all else being equal - do you try to cross where there are physical barriers or where the frontier is wide open? Would more people cross a border that has a wall or one that does not? They know it works..... But won't admit that that is the real issue that they are against... That it WILL work.....oh no....can't have that LOL Not Horse per say, but the hypocrisy most others think is hidden....is on full display.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Just now, Troll said: And what is so hard to recognize that any drug trade is secondary to the larger issue of illegal immigration as a whole??? Can't address that one first?... or does it not help the 'keep the borders porous' schtick..... Do we have to keep pouring over the same data points? Border crossings have decreased significantly over the past decade. It’s not a crisis out of control obviously. Significant factor of illegals is from expired visas. Drugs are smuggled across air and sea ways. The wall doesn’t fix any of these corrections to the above issues have not been talked about or shared with the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, concha said: The Secret Service in 2106 made plans to increase the height of the wall around the WH. It wan't for purely decorative purposes. I would think a proper threat assessment was done and it was determined potential breaches or threats have been on foot. (This is true for most residences) A wall, then, would be appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Horsefly said: I would think a proper threat assessment was done and it was determined potential breaches or threats have been on foot. (This is true for most residences) A wall, then, would be appropriate. I didn't realize that folks weren't crossing out southern border on foot. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Horsefly said: Do we have to keep pouring over the same data points? <<<I don't know.... why do you keep repeating failed ones? Border crossings have decreased significantly over the past decade.<<tremendous It’s not a crisis out of control obviously. <<in my state it most certainly is...and I'm not even on the border like some LOL BTW the non-issue claim is just SPECTACULAR. Significant factor of illegals is from expired visas.<<again no action will help there without a strong border first. Drugs are smuggled across air and sea ways. <<again a secondary issue, that also proves the need for a wall, and does not dilute it. The wall doesn’t fix any of these<<<actually it assists with ALL of them...but nice try on the phrasing.. corrections to the above issues have not been talked about or shared with the public. <<first things first ...remember? Got any 'good' data points??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Troll said: Got any 'good' data points??? "Illegal immigration is down therefore all's well and no wall is needed." Colossal non sequitur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanscript Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 14 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Do we have to keep pouring over the same data points? Border crossings have decreased significantly over the past decade. It’s not a crisis out of control obviously. Significant factor of illegals is from expired visas. Drugs are smuggled across air and sea ways. The wall doesn’t fix any of these corrections to the above issues have not been talked about or shared with the public. Now you are being unfair. How do you think that actually using facts to support your argument is fair? Tsk, tsk. (note: a large portion of the illegal drugs are smuggled thru government checkpoints.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanscript Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, concha said: "Illegal immigration is down therefore all's well and no wall is needed." Colossal non sequitur. In a black and white world, there are only two choices. For the right, that's usually the way they try to "solve" things. Try to think outside the box and envision a combination of 10 or so possible solutions. The best path forward may contain a combination of several tactics that don't include a wall across the entire border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, stanscript said: In a black and white world, there are only two choices. For the right, that's usually the way they try to "solve" things. Try to think outside the box and envision a combination of 10 or so possible solutions. The best path forward may contain a combination of several tactics that don't include a wall across the entire border. I'm down with a wall only where needed and effective. And I've never argued just for a wall. But the argument that a wall doesn't work as an effective part of a security solution is pure idiocy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, stanscript said: Now you are being unfair. How do you think that actually using facts to support your argument is fair? Tsk, tsk. (note: a large portion of the illegal drugs are smuggled thru government checkpoints.) Yes a relevant fact would help....try and bring one next time... Just now, stanscript said: In a black and white world, there are only two choices. For the right, that's usually the way they try to "solve" things. Try to think outside the box and envision a combination of 10 or so possible solutions. The best path forward may contain a combination of several tactics that don't include a wall across the entire border. Think outside the box all you like...... when you are done....let us know what you come up with... Walls have a proven history and track record that your 'electric car' theory refuses to address... So go ahead and name one 'outside the box' solution that's better...… we are still waiting... PS: and any of your made up 'statistical projections' will not count LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, Troll said: Got any 'good' data points??? Yes, tell me how the wall will stop the transport of drugs to the US from the sea and air? tell me how the wall will curb the overstaying of visas? Tell me how the wall will persuade US businesses from hiring illegals in the 1st place? tell me how the wall will prevent sanctuary cities? Don’t waste your time, you can’t answer these and they are all major to illegal immigration. You endorse applying a 17h century solution to a 21st century problem. Were you a problem solver at work or a problem maker?? 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Yes, tell me how the wall will stop the transport of drugs to the US from the sea and air? tell me how the wall will curb the overstaying of visas? Tell me how the wall will persuade US businesses from hiring illegals in the 1st place? tell me how the wall will prevent sanctuary cities? Don’t waste your time, you can’t answer these and they are all major to illegal immigration. You endorse applying a 17h century solution to a 21st century problem. Were you a problem solver at work or a problem maker?? 😂 If you stupidly try to assert that people are saying the wall is meant to solve the above issues, then you'd be rockin'. But they're not. Lots of walls have been built in modern times, around modern territories, properties and structures and by modern countries even in recent years. You think you're being clever and funny, but the common sense effectiveness of walls as part of a comprehensive security solution makes you look, well, just dumb. But Nancy is smiling at you parroting her talking point. Good boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 ...enter forrest trump and his bully base immigration team led by stephen miller..... At a 1980 GOP presidential debate in Houston, Texas, Reagan spoke of Mexico as "our neighbor to the south." He added, "We should have a better understanding and better relationship than we've ever had." And as he continued, Reagan sounded a lot like he was weighing in on today's immigration debate. "Rather than talking about putting up a fence," the future president said. "Why don't we work out some recognition of our mutual problems?" It's the kind of line you might hear from just about any Democratic senator in 2018. https://www.npr.org/2018/01/25/580222116/the-gops-evolution-on-immigration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 ....forrest running around trying to scare people and tell lie after lie is bullshit..........his base is NOT that important. You people know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, concha said: If you stupidly try to assert that people are saying the wall is meant to solve the above issues, then you'd be rockin'. But they're not. Lots of walls have been built in modern times, around modern territories, properties and structures and by modern countries even in recent years. You think you're being clever and funny, but the common sense effectiveness of walls as part of a comprehensive security solution makes you look, well, just dumb. But Nancy is smiling at you parroting her talking point. Good boy. The answer I’ve been looking for from you and troll is the country needs a comprehensive plan. All of those factors matter if we are serious about illegals. And the ONLY solution mentioned by trump as a major fix is ...the wall. 😂 when I briefed generals in my day, they never invested $$ if it didn’t address and fix the problem, not in part but whole. I hold trump to that simple standard. 🤦🏿♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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