Meanwhile: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

[Belly Bob]

7 minutes ago, concha said:

You might find this interesting.

https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/02/12/science-christian-bible-more-bloodthirsty-than-quran/1/

It's yet another example of how Huffington Post and their ilk will report a seriously flawed study whose own author calls "superficial" because it fits their political or social agenda. 

[TheRealCAJ]

I read the average age of an Islamic terrorist is 21........so there's that.

You just don't see many 60, 70 and 80 year old Islamic terrorists....thank the Lord for that!

[concha]

23 minutes ago, TheRealCAJ said:

I read the average age of an Islamic terrorist is 21........so there's that.

You just don't see many 60, 70 and 80 year old Islamic terrorists....thank the Lord for that!

You may want to look nto the life expectancy in many Muslim countries.

[HawgGoneIt]

3 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

It may well be the case that all religions have extremists or violent extremists in particular.

But I don't think it follows that all religions are basically the same or that none is better or worse than any other. 

A and B can be the same with respect to C and very, very different with respect to D, E, etc. 

 

This is true. I can't really argue that some religions seem more susceptible at the current time. 

It's also where I feel like NOR was hitting the nail on the head earlier with his post about poverty and/or oppression being one of the key motivators to radicalizing a religious zealot. These religions are so wishy washy and often contradictory in places to the point that a hi IQ person can take the verses and words out of context, apply them to real life strife and coerce a person into believing pretty much whatever they want them to believe. There is a lot of manipulation going on in propaganda from these "teachers". This is applicable to both Christianity and Islam. 

The difference between the two is not that the people are more peaceful by nature. It is that a lot of Christian nations have less poverty, and therefore the followers are more content and not necessarily looking for some great reason to strap up with a bomb vest. There is still a lot of propaganda and manipulation using Christianity though. 

People are wanting to twist and turn Islam as some horrific teaching and portray Christianity as great. I don't think either religion at it's source is straight up propagating extremists. It's people that are adept at using them to fit their agendas that are doing that. If Islam was inherently evil, how can we explain the peaceful societies that are primarily Muslim? There are like 600 million practicing Muslims in southeast Asia and China, yet they aren't running at us with bomb vests on are they? How do we explain this if Islam is most certainly teaching it's followers to hate us in the west? Why don't we see the politically motivated violence and hatred toward westerners breeding there? It's simple imo. It comes down to these followers of Islam are content in their lives. They don't want for much or need much that they can't get. Their governments offer them the necessities and protections without oppression as we see in Syria, Iraq and etc. 

[HawgGoneIt]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jan/28/muslim-population-country-projection-2030

 

Check out these countries like Malaysia, India, Indonesia  and the Philippines. Some of them already have as many or more practicing Muslims as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. They must be reading a different Quran in those countries than in Syria and Iran. 

[concha]

7 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jan/28/muslim-population-country-projection-2030

 

Check out these countries like Malaysia, India, Indonesia  and the Philippines. Some of them already have as many or more practicing Muslims as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. They must be reading a different Quran in those countries than in Syria and Iran. 

http://www.indonesia-investments.com/business/risks/radical-islam/item245?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/terror-grows-in-southern-philippines-from-militants-linked-to-islamic-state-1479465005

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/malaysia-clear-and-present-danger-from-the-islamic-state/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Islamic_terrorism_in_India

 

1)  Only two of the countries you mention are majority Muslim.

2)  Nice to know know what you are talking about before you launch the "  ".

 

 

[Belly Bob]

35 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

[...] If Islam was inherently evil, how can we explain the peaceful societies that are primarily Muslim? There are like 600 million practicing Muslims in southeast Asia and China, yet they aren't running at us with bomb vests on are they? How do we explain this if Islam is most certainly teaching it's followers to hate us in the west? Why don't we see the politically motivated violence and hatred toward westerners breeding there? It's simple imo. It comes down to these followers of Islam are content in their lives. They don't want for much or need much that they can't get. Their governments offer them the necessities and protections without oppression as we see in Syria, Iraq and etc. 

Right.

I used to work with a Muslim from Africa. 

We used to have lunch regularly and talk about the differences and similarities between our religions. 

Maybe he was pulling the wool over my eyes, or maybe he was confused about his own religion, but he seemed like a really good guy, was always smiling, was well liked by everyone, condemned terrorists, and was open to giving and evaluating reasons for and against different points of theology. 

I doubt that it's as simple as you suggest though.

Poverty and oppression are correlated with radical Islam, but not with terrorism in general or with hatred of the West.

That needs to be explained. 

[HawgGoneIt]

6 minutes ago, concha said:

http://www.indonesia-investments.com/business/risks/radical-islam/item245?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/terror-grows-in-southern-philippines-from-militants-linked-to-islamic-state-1479465005

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/malaysia-clear-and-present-danger-from-the-islamic-state/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Islamic_terrorism_in_India

 

1)  Only two of the countries you mention are majority Muslim.

2)  Nice to know know what you are talking about before you launch the "  ".

 

 

Taken directly from one of your links...

With more than 200 million Muslim inhabitants, Indonesia contains the largest Muslim population in the world. This number is roughly equal to 13 percent of the total number of Muslims in the world. However, this group of 200 million people does not represent a homogeneous group. Much variety can be found in Indonesian Islam as well as in their perceptions regarding the role that Islam should play within Indonesian politics and society.

Although around 88 percent of the Indonesian population is Muslim, Indonesia is not an Islamic state ruled by Islamic law. As most Indonesians can be labelled moderate Muslims, the majority thus approves of a secular democracy and a pluralist society. This attitude is visible in the results of recent legislative elections as Islamic political parties that stress the importance of a dominating, stricter Islamic stream in the government received few votes. The secular political parties that support a moderate and tolerant Islamic democracy and society, on the other hand, proved to be very popular. But this does not withstand the fact that Indonesia has been experiencing a continuing process of Islamization since this religion first arrived in the archipelago many centuries ago. However, this process should not be confused with Islamism or radicalism. Radical Muslims in Indonesia only constitute a small minority.

 

 

I couldn't get into one as I'm not a subscriber. 

[concha]

1 minute ago, Belly Bob said:

Right.

I used to work with a Muslim from Africa. 

We used to have lunch regularly and talk about the differences and similarities between our religions. 

Maybe he was pulling the wool over my eyes, or maybe he was confused about his own religion, but he seemed like a really good guy, was always smiling, was well liked by everyone, condemned terrorists, and was open to giving and evaluating reasons for and against different points of theology. 

I doubt that it's as simple as you suggest though.

Poverty and oppression are correlated with radical Islam, but not with terrorism in general or with hatred of the West.

That needs to be explained. 

The 9/11 terrorists were educated men from families of means. UBL himself was just plain fucking rich.

The idea that terrorists are a bunch of poor sods with no options in life is simply foolish.

[HawgGoneIt]

3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

Right.

I used to work with a Muslim from Africa. 

We used to have lunch regularly and talk about the differences and similarities between our religions. 

Maybe he was pulling the wool over my eyes, or maybe he was confused about his own religion, but he seemed like a really good guy, was always smiling, was well liked by everyone, condemned terrorists, and was open to giving and evaluating reasons for and against different points of theology. 

I doubt that it's as simple as you suggest though.

Poverty and oppression are correlated with radical Islam, but not with terrorism in general or with hatred of the West.

That needs to be explained. 

 

I think we can also add in that we are actively "screwing around" in these countries. Supporting one side over another etc. It's not difficult to sell us as bad or the enemy when we are consistently acting like one. 

[HawgGoneIt]

2 minutes ago, concha said:

The 9/11 terrorists were educated men from families of means. UBL himself was just plain fucking rich.

The idea that terrorists are a bunch of poor sods with no options in life is simply foolish.

UBL didn't run into the trade center with a plane either. He manipulated others into doing so by twisting the teachings of Islam. He recruited the poor and down trodden by offering them an out. 

[concha]

Just now, HawgGoneIt said:

Taken directly from one of your links...

With more than 200 million Muslim inhabitants, Indonesia contains the largest Muslim population in the world. This number is roughly equal to 13 percent of the total number of Muslims in the world. However, this group of 200 million people does not represent a homogeneous group. Much variety can be found in Indonesian Islam as well as in their perceptions regarding the role that Islam should play within Indonesian politics and society.

Although around 88 percent of the Indonesian population is Muslim, Indonesia is not an Islamic state ruled by Islamic law. As most Indonesians can be labelled moderate Muslims, the majority thus approves of a secular democracy and a pluralist society. This attitude is visible in the results of recent legislative elections as Islamic political parties that stress the importance of a dominating, stricter Islamic stream in the government received few votes. The secular political parties that support a moderate and tolerant Islamic democracy and society, on the other hand, proved to be very popular. But this does not withstand the fact that Indonesia has been experiencing a continuing process of Islamization since this religion first arrived in the archipelago many centuries ago. However, this process should not be confused with Islamism or radicalism. Radical Muslims in Indonesia only constitute a small minority.

 

 

I couldn't get into one as I'm not a subscriber. 

Hawg,

You are falling (apparently willfully) into the trap that the exception makes the rule.

The simple fact is that there is no global Christian terrorist movement. Nor is there a Jewish one. Nor a Hindu one. Nor a Buddhist one, nor a Taoist one.

There is an Islamic one. And its followers can point to literally scores of passages in the Quran and Hadith to support their views.

Yet people twist themsleves like effing pretzels trying to do the PC "right thing" and deny it or spew a load of moral equivalency crapola.

 

[Belly Bob]

Just now, concha said:

The 9/11 terrorists were educated men from families of means. UBL himself was just plain fucking rich.

The idea that terrorists are a bunch of poor sods with no options in life is simply foolish.

I don't think that that was Hawg's point. But I don't want to put words into his mouth.

I think that his point was that it's easier to radicalize Muslims who are poor and oppressed than it is to radicalize Christians who have money and freedom. 

That's perfectly consistent with there being educated and wealthy Muslim terrorists. 

But I agree with you that the existence of UBLs needs to be explained. 

[concha]

Just now, HawgGoneIt said:

UBL didn't run into the trade center with a plane either. He manipulated others into doing so by twisting the teachings of Islam. He recruited the poor and down trodden by offering them an out. 

You need to look into the backgrounds of the 9/11 perps.  You couldn't be more wrong.

[concha]

4 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I don't think that that was Hawg's point. But I don't want to put words into his mouth.

I think that his point was that it's easier to radicalize Muslims who are poor and oppressed than it is to radicalize Christians who have money and freedom. 

That's perfectly consistent with there being educated and wealthy Muslim terrorists. 

But I agree with you that the existence of UBLs needs to be explained. 

These guys aren't yelling "help the poor!" when they go down. And they don't leave behind messages about how poverty drove them to their acts.

They yell "Allahu Akbar".

[HawgGoneIt]

1 minute ago, concha said:

Hawg,

You are falling (apparently willfully) into the trap that the exception makes the rule.

The simple fact is that there is no global Christian terrorist movement. Nor is there a Jewish one. Nor a Hindu one. Nor a Buddhist one, nor a Taoist one.

There is an Islamic one. And its followers can point to literally scores of passages in the Quran and Hadith to support their views.

Yet people twist themsleves like effing pretzels trying to do the PC "right thing" and deny it or spew a load of moral equivalency crapola.

 

 

Maybe I am falling into that trap. The largest Muslim population in the world has less radicals than some of the smaller populations. How is this the exception? 

 

So what is the solution then? Should we just scream for Trump to fire the nukes and kill billions of Muslims? 

 

[Belly Bob]

1 minute ago, concha said:

These guys aren't yelling "help the poor!" when they go down. ANd they don't leave behind messages about how poverty drove them to their acts.

They yell "Allahu Akbar".

That's irrelevant. 

If poverty is a key factor in radicalizing Muslim terrorists, it does't follow that the terrorists themselves will recognize that fact. 

[Belly Bob]

9 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I think we can also add in that we are actively "screwing around" in these countries. Supporting one side over another etc. It's not difficult to sell us as bad or the enemy when we are consistently acting like one. 

But, again, why Muslim countries in particular, given that we've been screwing around in many, many non-Muslim countries as well? 

[concha]

Just now, HawgGoneIt said:

 

Maybe I am falling into that trap. The largest Muslim population in the world has less radicals than some of the smaller populations. How is this the exception? 

 

So what is the solution then? Should we just scream for Trump to fire the nukes and kill billions of Muslims? 

 

Does the largest Muslim population have more Islamic radicals than the largest Christian nation has Christian terrorists/radicals? I'll bet hell yes.

 

I don't purport to say I have "a solution".

I just recognize that is is foolish and self-destructive to deceive oneself in the names of political correctness and moral equivalency.

[HawgGoneIt]

5 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I don't think that that was Hawg's point. But I don't want to put words into his mouth.

I think that his point was that it's easier to radicalize Muslims who are poor and oppressed than it is to radicalize Christians who have money and freedom. 

That's perfectly consistent with there being educated and wealthy Muslim terrorists. 

But I agree with you that the existence of UBLs needs to be explained. 

 

This was the point I was trying for.

 

The existence of UBLs is simple. People can have money, scores of it, yet still not be happy. They then thirst for power. Power comes from controlling others, which the UBLs are great at. Couple that with the U.S. meddling in their governments and affairs for years, and "Houston, we have a problem."

[concha]

3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

That's irrelevant. 

If poverty is a key factor in radicalizing Muslim terrorists, it does't follow that the terrorists themselves will recognize that fact. 

Hundreds of millions of poor in the Christian world.

Where's the global Christian terrorist movement?

[Belly Bob]

1 minute ago, concha said:

Hundreds of millions of poor in the Christian world.

Where's the global Christian terrorist movement?

Right.

I'm also waiting for the explanation. 

[concha]

3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

Right.

I'm also waiting for the explanation. 

The difference is something called "Islam".

 

No Christian can point to his New Testament and show you where Christ calls for him (let alone just say it's OK) to kill, enslave and rape.  Not so the Quran and Hadith.

Mother Theresa and her nuns vs. Al Capone and his gang.

[TheRealCAJ]

5 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

 

 

 

So what is the solution then? Should we just scream for Trump to fire the nukes and kill billions of Muslims? 

 

What is the solution for drunk drivers?.....my best guess is there is no solution for "people".......

I'm personally more afraid of drunk drivers than Islamic terrorists....that's just me though.

[HawgGoneIt]

Which majority Christian countries have rampant  poverty and government oppression? 

I think we will discover that most majority Christian countries have secular governments, not unlike the Indonesian paragraph I quoted from one of the links provided.