Horsefly Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, concha said: Nuclear superpower. Borders NATO. 3rd largest oil producer in world. Supplies the bulk of Western Europe's gas needs. Not run by religious nutbags... Just off the top of my head. Do you think Putin's goals of making Russia a super power again and to slow western influence has changed since he's been in power? And if they haven't do you think his goals conflict with ours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, Horsefly said: Do you think Putin's goals of making Russia a super power again and to slow western influence has changed since he's been in power? And if they haven't do you think his goals conflict with ours? Of course they haven't changed. I don't think those goals have changed (USSR/Russia) in living memory. Any leader of a country should be expected to try to increase his nation's wealth and power. And of course there are areas where our goals clash. He wants to gain power and wealth selling gas to Western Europe and making them energy dependent. Trump opposes it. It is in his/Russia's best interest as an aggressor state for NATO to be weak. Trump's call for increased NATO spending directly conflicts with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, concha said: Of course they haven't changed. I don't think those goals have changed (USSR/Russia) in living memory. Any leader of a country should be expected to try to increase his nation's wealth and power. And of course there are areas where our goals clash. He wants to gain power and wealth selling gas to Western Europe and making them energy dependent. Trump opposes it. It is in his/Russia's best interest as an aggressor state for NATO to be weak. Trump's call for increased NATO spending directly conflicts with that. True, and Putin is not known as a compromiser, it's win-win. So knowing this, it begs the question why the level of effort being exerted on our part to work on bettering the relationship? What will we capitulate to? And more importantly why not make this goal well known to the American people? If NATO relations are fractured spending levels are meaningless. Simply adding more money doesn't make it more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, Horsefly said: True, and Putin is not known as a compromiser, it's win-win. So knowing this, it begs the question why the level of effort being exerted on our part to work on bettering the relationship? What will we capitulate to? And more importantly why not make this goal well known to the American people? What "level of effort"? You folks act like we're dropping our trousers, buttering our collective buns and bending over. We're talking and meanwhile acting in our (and our allies) own best interests. I find it shocking how little the American left cares about the state of our NATO allies and how badly we are being (and have been) taken advantage of. It's a fucking disgrace and kudos to Trump for challenging them. Pussy-footing over the years has gotten us nowhere. An then the left and the Germans get indignant about Trump suggesting they buy energy from us instead of the Russians. The left and the Western European allies howl and squeal about Putin and then what do they do? They deliver their testicles to the man by underspending on defense and making themselves energy-dependent on him! And they fucking scream and bitch about Trump for having the temerity to point it out! Meanwhile the EU rape us to the tune of $150 billion in trade surpluses annually. It's unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, concha said: What "level of effort"? You folks act like we're dropping our trousers, buttering our collective buns and bending over. We're talking and meanwhile acting in our (and our allies) own best interests. I find it shocking how little the American left cares about the state of our NATO allies and how badly we are being (and have been) taken advantage of. It's a fucking disgrace and kudos to Trump for challenging them. Pussy-footing over the years has gotten us nowhere. An then the left and the Germans get indignant about Trump suggesting they buy energy from us instead of the Russians. The left and the Western European allies howl and squeal about Putin and then deliver their testicles to the man by underspending on defense and making themselves energy-dependent on him! And they fucking scream and bitch about Trump for having the temerity to point it out! Meanwhile the EU rape us to the tune of $150 billion in trade surpluses with us annually. It's unbelievable. Well...bending over backwards looked like what he was doing today. To be in Putin’s good graces called for degrading our intel agencies internationally? That is the level of effort I’m talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, Horsefly said: Well...bending over backwards looked like what he was doing today. The left is so batshit over the man's very existence that they can't see the forest for the trees. If he walked on water, within minutes the mainstream media would start a 24/7 news cycle about how he doesn't know how to swim. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 41 minutes ago, concha said: Of course they haven't changed. I don't think those goals have changed (USSR/Russia) in living memory. Any leader of a country should be expected to try to increase his nation's wealth and power. And of course there are areas where our goals clash. He wants to gain power and wealth selling gas to Western Europe and making them energy dependent. Trump opposes it. It is in his/Russia's best interest as an aggressor state for NATO to be weak. Trump's call for increased NATO spending directly conflicts with that. I do not think Russia, unlike the USSR, has any interest into expanding into Western Europe. They got their own problems and enough immigrants already. Russia traditionally is very concerned with the Ukraine, the Baltic states and Poland - they do not like hostile governments there. We have to decide our approach to the Ukraine - I do not believe the US has any intention of sending troops there ever. Poland is a different matter though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, concha said: The left is so batshit over the man's very existence that they can't see the forest for the trees. If he walked on water, within minutes the mainstream media would start a 24/7 news cycle about how he doesn't know how to swim. . Going batshit? Not really conch, the ones that sacrifice to keep your ass safe every night don’t like being disrespected internationally and sane Americans, don’t like seeing it either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Going batshit? Yeah conch the ones that sacrifice to keep your ass safe every night don’t like being disrespected internationally and sane Americans, don’t like seeing it either. You people lose your minds at EVERYTHING he does. Pressing our "allies" who have been sponging off our military largess for years? Trump is an asshole! Pushing an "ally" that is one of the worst offenders in sponging off our military and that rapes us to the tune of $60b-$70b a year in trade surpluses to divert energy spending to us rather than the guy who is supposedly Satan incarnate? Trump is a sumbitch motherfucker! You know, I would have been fine with Trump going hard on Putin about election shit. You know what? Even if he did, the left and MSM would find shit to bitch about. They are incapable of anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, concha said: You people lose your minds at EVERYTHING he does. Pressing our "allies" who have been sponging off our military largess for years? Trump is an asshole! Pushing an "ally" that is one of the worst offenders in sponging off our military and that rapes us to the tune of $60b-$70b a year in trade surpluses to divert energy spending to us rather than the guy who is supposedly Satan incarnate? Trump is a sumbitch motherfucker! You know, I would have been fine with Trump going hard on Putin about election shit. You know what? Even if he did, the left and MSM would find shit to bitch about. They are incapable of anything else. He’s criticized with reason. We’ll see what other faux pas he makes in the near future. The guy is a hack for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, Horsefly said: He’s criticized with reason. We’ll see what other faux pas he makes in the near future. The guy is a hack for sure. Whatever keeps you happy. I'll take a non-PC guy who keeps the economy humming, folks employed, the military strong, appoints judges who read the constitution rather than satisfy liberal feelings, and who respects our laws, borders and sovereignty any day. You people would be happy if everything was a steaming pile of shit as long as Hillary was in the WH. And what a piece of work she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 The foreign policy people want to treat Putin’s Russia the same as the USSR. There seems to be a desire to move straight away to Cold War 2. But the 2 entities are different and I think call for different approaches. You can criticize Trump for his approach today, but it was not because he is compromised or because he was not awake. It was deliberate, which is why he has not since backed down. He was not going to allow the press to goad him into a fight on the stage - period. The foreign policy establishment still looks to the 1980s on Russian policy - Trump clearly wants to try something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, concha said: Whatever keeps you happy. I'll take a non-PC guy who keeps the economy humming, folks employed, the military strong, appoints judges who read the constitution rather than satisfy liberal feelings, and who respects our laws, borders and sovereignty any day. You people would be happy if everything was a steaming pile of shit as long as Hillary was in the WH. And what a piece of work she is. He respects our borders by disrespecting those that help keep it safe from the true treacherous enemy? (In not taking about the made up boogeyman immigrant looking for a better life.) The military is strong bc there are strong men and women doing their duty every day, fortified by disciplined NCOs and COs. Been that way for decades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 11 minutes ago, Horsefly said: He respects our borders by disrespecting those that help keep it safe from the true treacherous enemy? (In not taking about the made up boogeyman immigrant looking for a better life.) The military is strong bc there are strong men and women doing their duty every day, fortified by disciplined NCOs and COs. Been that way for decades What do you think 10 million to 20 million illegal aliens do to the wages and job opportunities of working class actual American citizens? It's funny how Dems don't want to talk about that with the working poor and minorities who are actual citizens. I'm hoping you understand supply and demand better than DD understands statistics. And those strong men and women in our military need paychecks, training, equipment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 The WH should hire bormio and concha. That way trump could take it in the ass from putin every day on TV..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 5 hours ago, concha said: What do you think 10 million to 20 million illegal aliens do to the wages and job opportunities of working class actual American citizens? It's funny how Dems don't want to talk about that with the working poor and minorities who are actual citizens. I'm hoping you understand supply and demand better than DD understands statistics. And those strong men and women in our military need paychecks, training, equipment... The demand for cheap labor is supplied by these workers, has been for decades. How many Americans do you see willing to work the fields picking fruit, working in hotels, busboys, maids, etc. all of these are realities of business that have kept costs to the consumer in check. There are opportunities in America by either doing work no one wants to or doing work no one is trained or capable of doing. We already get paychecks, training and equipment. There is probably so much financial fraud, waste and abuse in the mil it would shock the public if they knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guccifer Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 9:51 PM, concha said: He claims some bullshit about economics and employment numbers and then posts data that we never debated. I never made any claims about Obama first 15 months vs Trump first 15 months. concha is so unhinged that he doesn't even read stuff properly before he rages. On 7/16/2018 at 9:09 PM, Guccifer said: The guy that said Obama's job growth was too slow and now says that Trump is strengthening the economy. Average job growth per month (Obama's last 15 months) = 207,000 Average job growth per month (Trump's first 15 months) = 184,000 I clearly said last 15 months, race-baiter. You have claimed that Trump has the economy humming while somehow adding fewer jobs on average per month than Obama did, whom you claimed was a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guccifer Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 10:07 PM, concha said: 22%? Per NATO's report "Defence Expenditure of NATO Countries (2011-2018)" the US in 2018 is expected to spend $623 billion (2010 dollars) while Canada and European NATO nations spend $312 billion. 22%? You need to call Florida Atlantic's math department and get your money back. Settle down, rage monkey. The 22% figure is total NATO spending. I got the two figures mixed up. It happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guccifer Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 9:11 PM, concha said: Actually, that wasn't the argument nor the time frame being debated. As usual, you lie like a cheap rug. You can tell that concha is at a loss here because he wasn't a total rage monkey. concha claims that Trump has the economy humming but has no answers for basic economic indicators that state otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guccifer Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Anybody who has read concha's stuff knows that he loved the obscure Labor Force Participation Rate. It was THE most important employment statistic out there. Obama was a failure because it was low during his term. Well, the Labor Force Participation Rate today is the same as it was in January, 2017. In fact when it went down in 2017, concha said it was a good thing! The board is waiting anxiously to see how concha will lie and bullshit his way out of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecPadre Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 6:09 PM, Guccifer said: The guy that said Obama's job growth was too slow and now says that Trump is strengthening the economy. Average job growth per month (Obama's last 15 months) = 207,000 Average job growth per month (Trump's first 15 months) = 184,000 Stop hitting them with facts. Member, they only deal in "alternative facts". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guccifer Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, AztecPadre said: Stop hitting them with facts. Member, they only deal in "alternative facts". Go read his reply to my post. He was so enraged that he read it incorrectly (he claimed I said Obama's first 15 months) and then he didn't even attempt to refute what I said. The guy is a shill and he's not even a paid one. Hell, if you're going to cup Trump's balls at least get compensated for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 41 minutes ago, Guccifer said: concha is so unhinged that he doesn't even read stuff properly before he rages. I clearly said last 15 months, race-baiter. You have claimed that Trump has the economy humming while somehow adding fewer jobs on average per month than Obama did, whom you claimed was a failure. Doesn't matter either way, Sport. Adding jobs gets more difficult as you move along. Even you understand the concept of low-hanging fruit (you, do, right?). Under Trump we have actually reached a historic point where there are more want ads than people looking. Which gets us to the U6 measure. And look at the more comprehensive U6, where part-time folks looking for full-time work and discouraged workers who want to work but have stopped looking. We'll go by your 15-month timeframe. Under Obama it dropped either 0.8% or 0.4% (depending on the months chosen). Go with the better figure. Trump? 1.4%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecPadre Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 7:31 PM, ECHS05 said: All Ive gathered from you, is no matter what Trump does you are going to find a way to defend it. Hes right, no matter what he does. Even if its clearly not right. His defense of Putin should be maddening to everyone. I dont understand the loyalty to a MAN (clearly an unstable one), over loyalty to the United States of America. Great post!! Totally nailed. It's really scary how much these morons are willing to give up in order to make every excuse for him. Sad really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 58 minutes ago, Guccifer said: Settle down, rage monkey. The 22% figure is total NATO spending. I got the two figures mixed up. It happens. If the US is spending $623 billion (2010 dollars) while Canada and European NATO nations spend $312 billion, where does 22% come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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