Most dominant teams by average margin of victory?

[badrouter]

I'm curious as to which teams are averaging winning by the largest average margin per game. Obviously, strength of schedule matters. As does the presence or lack thereof of a running clock rule. I know in Florida that Carol City and Lakeland are both winning by about 42 ppg, CC 49-6.4 and Lakeland 48-5.5. Running clock rule in Florida is at a 35 point margin and in the 2nd half of games. 

What are some other prominent teams winning by more than 40 ppg?

[badrouter]

If college football teams were ranked the way many of you rank HS teams, Alabama would be outside of the top 25. They have no marquee wins over out of region teams, and all of the blowouts would be evidence of how weak their schedule is. The fact that they are LOADED with talent, and have a distinguished history of success under their coach? Meh.  Washington would be top 10. They traveled a long way to play against a team highly ranked at the time they played and it was a close loss. And just one other close loss and who really cares about losses when you played an out of region game?

 

😂

[Sammyswordsman]

11 hours ago, badrouter said:

I'm curious as to which teams are averaging winning by the largest average margin per game. Obviously, strength of schedule matters. As does the presence or lack thereof of a running clock rule. I know in Florida that Carol City and Lakeland are both winning by about 42 ppg, CC 49-6.4 and Lakeland 48-5.5. Running clock rule in Florida is at a 35 point margin and in the 2nd half of games. 

What are some other prominent teams winning by more than 40 ppg?

All this will tell you is which teams play other teams that are a Tier or two below them.  Not a good look

[badrouter]

5 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

All this will tell you is which teams play other teams that are a Tier or two below them.  Not a good look

I assume you're also saying this about 2018 Alabama, right? 

[badrouter]

8 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

All this will tell you is which teams play other teams that are a Tier or two below them.  Not a good look

Also, your conclusion isn't automatically true.  Carol City and Lakeland are flat loaded this year. As may be other teams destroying people. For reference, see De La Salle from the 90s and early 2000s. Schedule was almost exclusively lower level teams from a national perspective. When they finally got to play a decorated SoCal program, everyone said they'd get trampled. Oops.

[Sammyswordsman]

1 minute ago, badrouter said:

Also, your conclusion isn't automatically true.  Carol City and Lakeland are flat loaded this year. As may be other teams destroying people. For reference, see De La Salle from the 90s and early 2000s. Schedule was almost exclusively lower level teams from a national perspective. When they finally got to play a decorated SoCal program, everyone said they'd get trampled. Oops.

Proves my point.  When DLS played MD in 98 they won by 7.  Because they finally played a team on their same Tier.  Normally their MOV was 30 + points.

Top Florida and Top Texas teams play far to many teams that are severely out matched, and are 3-4 Tiers below.  The MOV in these game is more of an embarrassment of scheduling than a sign of football prowess.

[badrouter]

7 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Proves my point.  When DLS played MD in 98 they won by 7.  Because they finally played a team on their same Tier.  Normally their MOV was 30 + points.

Top Florida and Top Texas teams play far to many teams that are severely out matched, and are 3-4 Tiers below.  The MOV in these game is more of an embarrassment of scheduling than a sign of football prowess.

You're speaking in general terms. I'm talking about specific teams.

DLS was seen as a huge underdog by many "experts" prior to the '98 game at Mater Dei. 

Your only valid point here revolves around scheduling intent. If one intends to schedule pansies, THAT is not a good luck. So, what matters is the relatively recent history of teams you schedule (district games are out of your control). AHP and BTW are teams who've had national recognition in recent years. Those are not opponents CC scheduled as a way of ducking competition. They don't qualify as totally elite wins this year, but they're still good wins and CC won each of the games  by three scores. Manatee and Apopka are also teams who've had national recognition in recent years. Those are also not opponents Lakeland scheduled as a way of ducking competition. They don't qualify as totally elite wins either this year, but they're still good wins and Lakeland won each of those games by three scores. 

I don't make these points as a way of saying either team should jump over St. John Bosco. I do think they should be ahead of many teams they are not, like Akron Hobart, Honolulu St. Louis and dozens of teams ranked ahead of Lakeland, which isn't even in any top 50 rankings.

[Columbiafan]

22 minutes ago, badrouter said:

You're speaking in general terms. I'm talking about specific teams.

DLS was seen as a huge underdog by many "experts" prior to the '98 game at Mater Dei. 

Your only valid point here revolves around scheduling intent. If one intends to schedule pansies, THAT is not a good luck. So, what matters is the relatively recent history of teams you schedule (district games are out of your control). AHP and BTW are teams who've had national recognition in recent years. Those are not opponents CC scheduled as a way of ducking competition. They don't qualify as totally elite wins this year, but they're still good wins and CC won each of the games  by three scores. Manatee and Apopka are also teams who've had national recognition in recent years. Those are also not opponents Lakeland scheduled as a way of ducking competition. They don't qualify as totally elite wins either this year, but they're still good wins and Lakeland won each of those games by three scores. 

I don't make these points as a way of saying either team should jump over St. John Bosco. I do think they should be ahead of many teams they are not, like Akron Hobart, Honolulu St. Louis and dozens of teams ranked ahead of Lakeland, which isn't even in any top 50 rankings.

I had Lakeland in my top 50 national rankings

[Horsefly]

50 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Proves my point.  When DLS played MD in 98 they won by 7.  Because they finally played a team on their same Tier.  Normally their MOV was 30 + points.

Top Florida and Top Texas teams play far to many teams that are severely out matched, and are 3-4 Tiers below.  The MOV in these game is more of an embarrassment of scheduling than a sign of football prowess.

North shore had the best OOD resume of the top teams.  Katy and Westfield are top 10 in a lot of publications (Katy nationally ranked) and ridge point is top 10 in Houston.  All 3 only have losses to north shore.  This is why north shore is #1 in Texas in my book.  (North shore won all 3: 114-24)

[badrouter]

12 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

I had Lakeland in my top 50 national rankings

Ah that's right I forgot!

[Wosinc]

12 hours ago, Columbiafan said:

I had Lakeland in my top 50 national rankings

Preseason or current?

In fact, what’s your current Top 50?

[Columbiafan]

8 minutes ago, Wosinc said:

Preseason or current?

In fact, what’s your current Top 50?

Well it's technically not current

 

It's up for last week but i haven't updated for this week yet

 

 

[Wosinc]

8 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

Well it's technically not current

 

It's up for last week but i haven't updated for this week yet

 

 

Thanks.  I meant your most current.

My bad.  I just didn’t look on page 2 ...

47 seems kind of low, based on badrouter’s analysis.

[HawgGoneIt]

7 hours ago, Wosinc said:

Thanks.  I meant your most current.

My bad.  I just didn’t look on page 2 ...

47 seems kind of low, based on badrouter’s analysis.

Well, I think that next, one has to add in some other methodology to understand why they are so low. 

"Time spent at the top"

You know, there ia so many moving parts to ranking a team these days. 

When every other methodology is proven to have missed, the go to, they haven't been consistent enough in the polls. Their scheduling is another old favorite. 

 

[badrouter]

10 hours ago, Wosinc said:

Thanks.  I meant your most current.

My bad.  I just didn’t look on page 2 ...

47 seems kind of low, based on badrouter’s analysis.

I don't believe in any serious kind of national rankings in football.A tiered system might be kind of OK, but, even then it's a guess. Just a significant lack of head to head  match ups to use in ranking teams. And there's much greater variance among teams in HS football than there is in college (or the NFL). It's very hard to compare "No Name Team A" to "No Name Team B". Same with players. People often make the mistake of assuming players with no stars next to their name are all equal. Yet, actually, the most significant gap in talent and ability is actually among unranked/unstarred players. The three-year starter on the OL with great technique who benches 400 lbs. but goes 5'11" 260 and thus has no stars/offers. And your 90 year-old grandfather who walks with a cain also has zero stars/offers. LMAO

[Pops]

DLS avg MOV is 30 (41 to 11)

opponents record (outside of DLS games or games vs one another) is 50-11 (and 2 league teams have 8 of 11 losses)

[Wosinc]

54 minutes ago, badrouter said:

I don't believe in any serious kind of national rankings in football.A tiered system might be kind of OK, but, even then it's a guess. Just a significant lack of head to head  match ups to use in ranking teams. And there's much greater variance among teams in HS football than there is in college (or the NFL). It's very hard to compare "No Name Team A" to "No Name Team B". Same with players. People often make the mistake of assuming players with no stars next to their name are all equal. Yet, actually, the most significant gap in talent and ability is actually among unranked/unstarred players. The three-year starter on the OL with great technique who benches 400 lbs. but goes 5'11" 260 and thus has no stars/offers. And your 90 year-old grandfather who walks with a cain also has zero stars/offers. LMAO

I agree with you.  I just thought you made a good case for Lakeland. 

National polls have to be no more than educated guesses, given the lack a large H2H database.

Some guesses are more educated than others, depending on how much work a particular pollster puts in.

Everyone rags on Sammy (and often rightfully so 🤠), but I think the tiers are a good solution to the problem.

It seems to me that most gripes aren’t about his tier system per se, but rather about his perceived bias.

I don’t know if he lets bias creep in, but at least he is presenting an alternative, instead of just kvetching all the time.

And he seems open to corrections if given a decent argument.

[Horsefly]

The two most dominant in TX6A are

duncanville : 55.5 to 4.3.    

North shore: 52. to 5.7 

 

allen for comparison is: 47.5 to 14

[badrouter]

2 hours ago, Horsefly said:

The two most dominant in TX6A are

duncanville : 55.5 to 4.3.    

North shore: 52. to 5.7 

 

allen for comparison is: 47.5 to 14

Is there a running clock rule in Texas or no?

[Horsefly]

2 minutes ago, badrouter said:

Is there a running clock rule in Texas or no?

No, it’s not mandatory. 

[badrouter]

4 hours ago, Horsefly said:

No, it’s not mandatory. 

That would have an effect on MOV. The running clock really shortens games rather dramatically. Especially when it gets enforced as early as the first half of games when the margin gets to 35. It's quite difficult to get more than two possessions in the 2nd half of games with the running clock. I watched a game just this Friday that was 44-0 in the first half, they started the running clock,2nd team scored TDs both possessions against the other's first team. But, that was it. No way to get a 3rd possession when the clock runs at all times, including for several minutes at a time after TDs as the teams ready for the ensuing kickoff etc.

[Horsefly]

13 minutes ago, badrouter said:

That would have an effect on MOV. The running clock really shortens games rather dramatically. Especially when it gets enforced as early as the first half of games when the margin gets to 35. It's quite difficult to get more than two possessions in the 2nd half of games with the running clock. I watched a game just this Friday that was 44-0 in the first half, they started the running clock,2nd team scored TDs both possessions against the other's first team. But, that was it. No way to get a 3rd possession when the clock runs at all times, including for several minutes at a time after TDs as the teams ready for the ensuing kickoff etc.

Yes, I’m aware a running clock shortens the game. (Although not mandatory, coaches can agree to use one, I just can’t say if they were used in these examples)  My only intent was to ID the most dominant teams in TX.  

[1DayPGA]

On 10/20/2018 at 8:31 AM, Sammyswordsman said:

All this will tell you is which teams play other teams that are a Tier or two below them.  Not a good look

You mean like C.C. playing Riverside who was 0-8 going into that game. 80-0. Granted it is a league game but that was embarrassing for both teams. Not sure when Logan pulled his starters out but that was ugly. I don't think MOV is a good barometer, many elite teams could run up the score each week either trying to pad stats. or trying to make a case for national ranking. See Folsom in the Browning era or BG in the Martell era. 

[The Colonel]

1 hour ago, 1DayPGA said:

You mean like C.C. playing Riverside who was 0-8 going into that game. 80-0. Granted it is a league game but that was embarrassing for both teams. Not sure when Logan pulled his starters out but that was ugly. I don't think MOV is a good barometer, many elite teams could run up the score each week either trying to pad stats. or trying to make a case for national ranking. See Folsom in the Browning era or BG in the Martell era. 

I wasn't at the game but I'm certain coach Logan pulled his starters early. In games like this, he and his position coaches generally sit starters after the first half. He usually has about 100 players on the roster, and tries to get everyone in the game, all the way down to the Freshman QB. Honestly, Cen10's starting JV team could probably beat every team in that league (or give them a tough game).  I don't like those blowouts at all...but sometimes they can't be avoided.

[On2whls]

10 hours ago, The Colonel said:

I wasn't at the game but I'm certain coach Logan pulled his starters early. In games like this, he and his position coaches generally sit starters after the first half. He usually has about 100 players on the roster, and tries to get everyone in the game, all the way down to the Freshman QB. Honestly, Cen10's starting JV team could probably beat every team in that league (or give them a tough game).  I don't like those blowouts at all...but sometimes they can't be avoided.

This year Cen10 actually has trotted out fewer players in some cases than cheerleaders (50).  Its not that the offense has been that explosive, but the defense against the really bad teams is giving them field position past midfield on almost every series.  In the rain shortened 1 quarter game against arch rival Norco, they allowed Norco to get past midfield only one time and with two picks and a muffed punt attempt, Norco was down 28-0 in a blink.  

Their league (outside of Norco) is simply horrendous relative to the Huskies and the good D has amplified the impact.  The score runs up no matter what they do.  Second and third string are getting a lot of reps.

The only really compelling games for them this year were Chandler and OLU.  The rest have been hard to watch.  I’ve called it quits in the 3rd qtr of most and got the jump homeward early.

Thank god there’s only one week left before the playoffs.  The games will be much more competitive.