The state of HS football in America

[Ararar]

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

Is this an attack? I thought we agreed that there are no relevant differences among IMG, SJB, MD, and DLS; they all recruit. Isn't that what we said?

So why are we now saying that there is a relevant difference between IMG and SJB?

No, just an observation 

I didn’t agree to anything I only pointed  out correctly that DLS recruits 8th graders like any other private school.you’re Trying to associate a school that’s not even allowed to participate in its states playoffs because of the way they operate to SJB and that’s disingenuous at best.

[Belly Bob]

39 minutes ago, Ararar said:

No, just an observation 

I didn’t agree to anything I only pointed  out correctly that DLS recruits 8th graders like any other private school.you’re Trying to associate a school that’s not even allowed to participate in its states playoffs because of the way they operate to SJB and that’s disingenuous at best.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. 

Do you think there are relevant differences among IMG's, SJB's, MD's, and DLS's transfer policies, differences worth sorting in terms of better and worse, or do you think that there are no such differences? 

Isn't that @Pops's point, that there are such differences?

 

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, PrepGridiron said:

If there is sarcasm in this, please excuse the response, but the assertion was that the elephant in the room regarding declining participation numbers was competitive equity (or lack thereof). My point is that SJB being a magnet for talent, IMO, has a very minimal (if any) affect on whether a kid from Eagle Rock decides to play football. 

[...]

I hear you. And I saw @HawgGoneIt's post. I, myself, am also suspicious of the claim that declining participation is due to a lack of competitive equity, though it's an empirical question, and it may a contributing factor. I don't know. Your analysis of what's going on in Little League counts in favor of that possibility. 

I was pointing out the apparent tension in Negro's view that IMG should be banned because they take other teams' players but that there is nothing infelicitous about SJB's current transfer policies, accounts of declining participation notwithstanding.

[BanThisMan]

9 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

Isn't that @Pops's point, that there are such differences?

In a passive-aggressive way in order to excuse the losses.

It's one of the more pathetic things that he does around here.

[Ararar]

47 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. 

Do you think there are relevant differences among IMG's, SJB's, MD's, and DLS's transfer policies, differences worth sorting in terms of better and worse, or do you think that there are no such differences? 

Isn't that @Pops's point, that there are such differences?

 

The only point I was making by posting from the DLS website is they recruit 8th grade athletes like any other private school does.

as far as What Coach Negro said about IMG it looks like context is again needed

 

“I think its a good rule for teams like IMG.  They are ruthless in their pursuit of taking players from other schools and they have no rules that govern them with this type of activity.”

 

if SJB or any other private has rules against ruthless pursuit of players then you can’t lump them together 

[Mickeybern]

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01/30/football-recruiting-the-pac-12s-primary-talent-pool-is-shrinking-faster-than-those-of-other-power-five-conferences/

[HawgGoneIt]

4 hours ago, PrepGridiron said:

If there is sarcasm in this, please excuse the response, but the assertion was that the elephant in the room regarding declining participation numbers was competitive equity (or lack thereof). My point is that SJB being a magnet for talent, IMO, has a very minimal (if any) affect on whether a kid from Eagle Rock decides to play football. 

All that said, I partly get Hawg's argument as the same is happening with our local Little League. So many travel baseball teams have built up that parents are taking their talented kids to those leagues. As an anecdotal rule, these kids are good because their parents most likely have an interest and knowledge of baseball, so along with them taking away their talented kids they are taking away competent coaches that could otherwise coach up a team full of kids with limited baseball knowledge. This creates a vacuum for these little leagues and because there aren't coaches there to to coach and talent to help sharpen skills, parents and kids are less inclined to participate and find alternative outlets. Some of these concepts are discussed in this great article from the Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/whats-lost-when-only-rich-kids-play-sports/541317/ 

This. 

 

Now, I won't pretend that there isn't a lot of factors involved, but, connect-a-dot (conspiracy theory) that at least two of the states seeing the largest decline in participation are also two of the states that are allowing the rampant transfer. 

I feel like there is some connection. This is the group that we need to be training heavily and nurturing to be the players of tomorrow, instead we pick over them, or allow them to be picked over until they stop trying out.

When a team is bad. Really bad, for some number of years, kids stop showing up to try out in the numbers that allow us to identify and train enough talent to field a football team or program. When that gets turned back around, kids start trying out again in sufficient numbers. We've seen it at Colquitt without having the circumstance of a private school sopping up all the talent. 

Shifting demographics and everything else be damned. Let's get those new demographics excited in the sport we love too. 

Anyway, just sharing my opinion.  I think it's an interesting subject worth discussing. 

[HawgGoneIt]

1 hour ago, Mickeybern said:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01/30/football-recruiting-the-pac-12s-primary-talent-pool-is-shrinking-faster-than-those-of-other-power-five-conferences/

I'm curious as to why the other states around Cali aren't seeing the same percentage of decline? 

If we follow the story as being sold... It just seems strange that the Cali moms are so much more worried about head trauma than say the Idaho moms. 

Interesting that the easy way out is to say "Cali is more laid back" than to look in the mirror and wonder if there is something more going on. 

 

Meanwhile... states with more parity show increases in their participation rates.

 

[Mickeybern]

3 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I'm curious as to why the other states around Cali aren't seeing the same percentage of decline? 

If we follow the story as being sold... It just seems strange that the Cali moms are so much more worried about head trauma than say the Idaho moms. 

Interesting that the easy way out is to say "Cali is more laid back" than to look in the mirror and wonder if there is something more going on. 

 

Meanwhile... states with more parity show increases in their participation rates.

 

look Hawg not to get to political but I do believe it is cultural..Idaho more rural and more traditional..big city suburbs on the coasts and you have helicopter moms..also the coasts have a lot more sports that are being offered away from the traditional big 4. Lacrosse and hockey have skyrocketed and the kids play them year round.

[HawgGoneIt]

19 minutes ago, Mickeybern said:

look Hawg not to get to political but I do believe it is cultural..Idaho more rural and more traditional..big city suburbs on the coasts and you have helicopter moms..also the coasts have a lot more sports that are being offered away from the traditional big 4. Lacrosse and hockey have skyrocketed and the kids play them year round.

It could be that simple. The yahoos and wood choppers rather play football while the folks that attend the symphony prefer track and lax. 

 

The dots seem so easy to connect to me. Kids want to participate when there is parity. They stop wanting to participate and they then play lax when they already got picked over for the TL or BNU.

Why risk the repeated blows to the head when you already know the best teams are not the one you are on...every single year. It makes sense to go play lax because of the situation. 

[Bestcoast]

11 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

It could be that simple. The yahoos and wood choppers rather play football while the folks that attend the symphony prefer track and lax. 

 

The dots seem so easy to connect to me. Kids want to participate when there is parity. They stop wanting to participate and they then play lax when they already got picked over for the TL or BNU.

Why risk the repeated blows to the head when you already know the best teams are not the one you are on...every single year. It makes sense to go play lax because of the situation. 

Band, drama, science and we The people competitions have actually grown in numbers. The kids never get concussions.

Surfing and beach volleyball are huge out here in SoCal.

[HawgGoneIt]

7 minutes ago, Bestcoast said:

Band, drama, science and we The people competitions have actually grown in numbers. The kids never get concussions.

Surfing and beach volleyball are huge out here in SoCal.

So they wouldn't play football and risk concussions, if they thought they had a legit shot at the real state championship rather than some fake secondary bowl game where they get a participation trophy? 

 

[Bestcoast]

3 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

So they wouldn't play football and risk concussions, if they thought they had a legit shot at the real state championship rather than some fake secondary bowl game where they get a participation trophy? 

 

Both my kids played from Pop Warner to HIgh School. One in college. They were naturally tough little sob’s and loved football. But honestly, they were both good baseball players as well. If I had to do it all over again, I would seriously think about just guiding them in the direction of baseball. 

I love football but it’s a risk that a parent should think about. And I think a lot of them are. 

[HawgGoneIt]

8 hours ago, Bestcoast said:

Both my kids played from Pop Warner to HIgh School. One in college. They were naturally tough little sob’s and loved football. But honestly, they were both good baseball players as well. If I had to do it all over again, I would seriously think about just guiding them in the direction of baseball. 

I love football but it’s a risk that a parent should think about. And I think a lot of them are. 

Appears to be true if only in Cali and Jersey though. 

 

People in Georgia and Texas would send their kids out to play in traffic. Head trauma be damned. 

 

 

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

9 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

It could be that simple. The yahoos and wood choppers rather play football while the folks that attend the symphony prefer track and lax. 

 

The dots seem so easy to connect to me. Kids want to participate when there is parity. They stop wanting to participate and they then play lax when they already got picked over for the TL or BNU.

Why risk the repeated blows to the head when you already know the best teams are not the one you are on...every single year. It makes sense to go play lax because of the situation. 

I’d say half of our lax team is the football team  btw maybe more

 

 

 

 

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

@HSFBfan I was doing research and I saw that some Random Donor (not alumni or affiliated with SJR in anyway) Spent 6 figures on Concussion reducing helmets for the team

https://amp.northjersey.com/amp/1605659002?__twitter_impression=true

[BanThisMan]

10 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Now, I won't pretend that there isn't a lot of factors involved, but, connect-a-dot (conspiracy theory) that at least two of the states seeing the largest decline in participation are also two of the states that are allowing the rampant transfer. 

Let's start off with the fact that no state allows rampant transferring more than any other. This is a myth that is perpetuated on these forums. Big programs in big metro areas get more transfers than those that aren't. Regardless of location.

[BanThisMan]

10 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I feel like there is some connection.

Another issue.

Your emotions.

You 'feel' like it's a reason so, then, it must be a reason.

[BanThisMan]

10 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

This is the group that we need to be training heavily and nurturing to be the players of tomorrow, instead we pick over them, or allow them to be picked over until they stop trying out.

An already bad theory is made even worse by your complete lack of corroborating evidence.

[BanThisMan]

10 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Anyway, just sharing my opinion.

Finally, some truth.

[BanThisMan]

9 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

It just seems strange that the Cali moms are so much more worried about head trauma than say the Idaho moms. 

Why is that strange?

California is far more liberal and progressive than Idaho. A mother in California is far likelier to believe the evidence about traumatic brain injury. 

Just look at the people who deny the evidence here and then check their ideological leanings.

There's your answer.

[BanThisMan]

10 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Interesting that the easy way out is to say "Cali is more laid back" than to look in the mirror and wonder if there is something more going on. 

No, the easy way out is to ignore evidence and logical conclusions and just attribute it to something that you already "feel" and which makes you feel better.

[BanThisMan]

9 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

The dots seem so easy to connect to me.

Of course it is.

You're biased.

You 'feel' it's something and therefore it is. No need to support anything you say. It's so easy!

[BanThisMan]

9 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Kids want to participate when there is parity. They stop wanting to participate and they then play lax when they already got picked over for the TL or BNU.

A completely made-up, straight-from-your-ass explanation.

This doesn't just have weak evidence. It has no evidence at all.

[HSFBfan]

17 minutes ago, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

@HSFBfan I was doing research and I saw that some Random Donor (not alumni or affiliated with SJR in anyway) Spent 6 figures on Concussion reducing helmets for the team

https://amp.northjersey.com/amp/1605659002?__twitter_impression=true

They look nice