zulu1128 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, rockinl said: I somewhat agree. How do you remove someone from a plane that refuses? When he refused, United should have started the bidding at $800 for a volunteer. Bump it up $100 until someone agrees. Im sure someone else. on that plane would have taken a healthy offer. Not with overzealous airport cops who are just laying wait to use some type of force they can brag about. I mean, barring the fact that this Dr. is pretty much an embarrassment to the medical profession....he was a paying customer. Paid for that seat. They treated him like a felon. Bad move. Technically, the moment he refused the crew's instructions he actually was a felon. Chickens coming home to roost and all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, LeftOnBase said: The article says that the police that removed him from the plane, are being placed on leave. I'm not condoning what took place, but how do you go about removing an unwilling person from their seat without dragging them out? Whoever implemented the policy/procedures for over-booking, should be the one(s) being placed on leave. Let's not place any blame on the kook w/ anger management issues that defied two different sets of authorities that were tasked with managing the safety and convenience of hundreds adversely impacted by his defiance -- after all, he probably was late for another illegal prescriptions for gay sex trade A real Hero of the People Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 minute ago, zulu1128 said: They're all in the same number. Denied boarding is what it is, whether you're in your seat or at the gate. So at what point has the passenger actually and officially boarded the plane then? This is a weird debate. Forcefully removing a passenger from their seat is totally different than never taking their pass at the gate imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, zulu1128 said: Technically, the moment he refused the crew's instructions he actually became a felon. Chickens coming home to roost and all..... But, he probably had a bad childhood, so let's applaud as he gets paid millions for this civil disobedience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: So at what point has the passenger actually and officially boarded the plane then? This is a weird debate. Forcefully removing a passenger from their seat is totally different than never taking their pass at the gate imo. The use of force is dependent on the passenger. The law states that crew instructions must be obeyed without question. To not comply is a federal crime. The minute Dr. Feelgood said "no," all bets are off from a legal/law enforcement perspective. Lest we forget that three other people got up, left the plane and collected their vouchers without incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinl Posted April 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 Just now, Pops said: Let's not place any blame on the kook w/ anger management issues that defied two different sets of authorities that were tasked with managing the safety and convenience of hundreds adversely impacted by his defiance -- after all, he probably was late for another illegal prescriptions for gay sex trade A real Hero of the People nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 You guys are just trolling. I'm done with this one. Once a passenger is confirmed at the gate and in their seat... they have officially boarded the aircraft. Being refused boarding and being refused transport are two different things. If United was right in their actions, their CEO wouldn't be on an international apology tour for the past two days. Notice they didn't go on this apology tour over the yoga pants/leggings incident... they were within their rights on that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinl Posted April 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 "The passenger wasn’t denied boarding — he had a confirmed seat, and was allowed to board and take that seat. Later they come on board and asked him to get off the plane. At that point that’s no longer being denied boarding, but rather being refused transport. United’s contract of carriage addresses both of these situations: The contract of carriage lists a bunch of reasons that the airline can refuse transport to someone, though a flight being oversold after a passenger has boarded isn’t one of them. In the Department of Transportation regulations, I havent read anything that clarifies how they define “denied boarding.” In light of that, it sure seems like this was a case of refusal to transport, rather than a case of denied boarding, since the passenger wasn’t denied boarding. If this was a refusal to transport case, then United had no legal grounds on which to refuse him transport, based on the contract of carriage. If that’s the case, did United use police force to incorrectly enforce a contract? When this story first started, it sure seemed to me like United may have technically been within their rights to refuse this passenger transport, but even that isn’t looking likely at this point. It would seem to me that once passengers have boarded, the only way to have them get off the plane is through a voluntary system, by offering compensation that they agree to. Without that, this isn’t a denied boarding case, but rather a refusal to transport case." I couldn't care less about this crooked Dr., I just don't want it to next time, be someone in my family getting treated this way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardhit1 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: Denied boarding. Where's the graph for after they've already boarded? Where's the graph for a broken nose, 2 missing teeth and a concussion? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, rockinl said: The passenger wasn’t denied boarding — he had a confirmed seat, and was allowed to board and take that seat. Later they come on board and asked him to get off the plane. At that point that’s no longer being denied boarding, but rather being refused transport. United’s contract of carriage addresses both of these situations: The contract of carriage lists a bunch of reasons that the airline can refuse transport to someone, though a flight being oversold after a passenger has boarded isn’t one of them. In the Department of Transportation regulations, I havent read anything that clarifies how they define “denied boarding.” In light of that, it sure seems like this was a case of refusal to transport, rather than a case of denied boarding, since the passenger wasn’t denied boarding. If this was a refusal to transport case, then United had no legal grounds on which to refuse him transport, based on the contract of carriage. If that’s the case, did United use police force to incorrectly enforce a contract? When this story first started, it sure seemed to me like United may have technically been within their rights to refuse this passenger transport, but even that isn’t looking likely at this point. It would seem to me that once passengers have boarded, the only way to have them get off the plane is through a voluntary system, by offering compensation that they agree to. Without that, this isn’t a denied boarding case, but rather a refusal to transport case. I couldn't care less about this crooked Dr., I just don't want it to next time, be someone in my family getting treated this way. If you're going to copy/paste directly from someone's blog, it's normally a courtesy to at least link the source. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-denied-boarding-illegal/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftOnBase Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 I don't agree with this passenger's actions, but once you've taken your seat, you shouldn't have to leave the plane. There had to have been a small jet on site that United could have used to ferry the crew that REALLY needed to be on this particular flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, LeftOnBase said: I don't agree with this passenger's actions, but once you've taken your seat, you shouldn't have to leave the plane. There had to have been a small jet on site that United could have used to ferry the crew that REALLY needed to be on this particular flight. If you read the back of your ticket or boarding pass you are warned that this may happen. By the graph you can see it happens all the time. This is just the first time some cookoo for cocopuffs went nuts and they filmed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinl Posted April 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 Just now, zulu1128 said: If you're going to copy/paste directly from someone's blog, it's normally a courtesy to at least link the source. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-denied-boarding-illegal/ Just now, zulu1128 said: If you're going to copy/paste directly from someone's blog, it's normally a courtesy to at least link the source. http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-denied-boarding-illegal/ I forgot to place the quotations. Thanks for pointing it out. Id rather copy/paste rather than add a link that takes you sometimes to nothing but pop up ads. But I did a little research after reading that and agree with his post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, rockinl said: I forgot to place the quotations. Thanks for pointing it out. Id rather copy/paste rather than add a link that takes you sometimes to nothing but pop up ads. But I did a little research after reading that and agree with his post. It's an interesting opinion. At the end of the day, the airlines classify both terms as "denied boarding," at least for statistical purposes. The author probably already knows that, as he seems somewhat knowledgeable about the industry. All of the UA peeps I know are pretty much in agreement that they're legally in the clear...and understand that the company will probably pay a significant settlement anyway. They agree with me that there's no way this ever sees the inside of a courtroom...Dr. Feelgood would receive his 2nd severe beating at trial and end up with little to show for it. His lawyers are already talking about negotiating a settlement...they know the case is a 100% loser in court as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 His lawyers are now saying he has a concussion, broken nose and broken teeth. I can see it now. It is going to be like that Brady Bunch episode where Carol backs up her car into another mans car at the grocery store so he takes her to court. He has to be wheeled in. Has a neck brace, busted arm and cast on leg. This shit is getting beyond funny, more like sad. I wonder how many vultures I mean Lawyers lined up and asked for this guys case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, thc6795 said: His lawyers are now saying he has a concussion, broken nose and broken teeth. I can see it now. It is going to be like that Brady Bunch episode where Carol backs up her car into another mans car at the grocery store so he takes her to court. He has to be wheeled in. Has a neck brace, busted arm and cast on leg. This shit is getting beyond funny, more like sad. I wonder how many vultures I mean Lawyers lined up and asked for this guys case? Well, he's 69 years old and the cops bounced his face off the armrest as they were dragging him out, so his claimed injuries are probably pretty plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinl Posted April 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 58 minutes ago, DevilDog said: I can seriously picture this Pops cat. Newsman hair, khakis, loafers, Polo collar popped up, sweater tied around his neck. LOL Pops the Douche, in my most "nasally" nerdy, Northern voice..."Hey you guys...let's get a bottle of pop!" LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, LeftOnBase said: I don't agree with this passenger's actions, but once you've taken your seat, you shouldn't have to leave the plane. There had to have been a small jet on site that United could have used to ferry the crew that REALLY needed to be on this particular flight. The Left's solution to everything...... spend more So, now every airline needs a spare small jet at every airport to be available just in case there's a need to ferry airline crew Brilliant Instead of 10,000 people/ per year (the amount that were denied boarding, involuntary or not) being inconvenienced for a few hours (call it $1,000 of inconvenience per person or $1 million of inconvenience), let's charge 237 million more people (the amount of annual domestic travellers) for their tickets for the increased cost of hundreds of small jets (and, of course, their salaried, union crews that need to be paid whether they fly or not). If costs go up even $1/ traveler, the scales are still tipped at 237:1 against and it would be a lot more than $1/ traveler in costs. This is akin to say SF needs a parallel bridge next to the Golden Gate just in case there's a car that runs out of gas on the bridge, in fact, one on each side would be better in case it happens twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Pops said: The Left's solution to everything...... spend more So, now every airline needs a spare small jet at every airport to be available just in case there's a need to ferry airline crew Brilliant Instead of 10,000 people/ per year (the amount that were denied boarding, involuntary or not) being inconvenienced for a few hours (call it $1,000 of inconvenience per person or $1 million of inconvenience), let's charge 237 million more people (the amount of annual domestic travellers) for their tickets for the increased cost of hundreds of small jets (and, of course, their salaried, union crews that need to be paid whether they fly or not). If costs go up even $1/ traveler, the scales are still tipped at 237:1 against and it would be a lot more than $1/ traveler in costs. This is akin to say SF needs a parallel bridge next to the Golden Gate just in case there's a car that runs out of gas on the bridge, in fact, one on each side would be better in case it happens twice this has nothing to do with left or right it's simple, most feel overselling is inappropriate and your analogy, although very north Cal, is ridiculous hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, noonereal said: this has nothing to do with left or right it's simple, most feel overselling is inappropriate and your analogy, although very north Cal, is ridiculous hope this helps! Most people think healthcare and cel phones should be free also Other people understand how the world works Overselling seats makes an efficient business for reason that none of you lefties care about or would even understand. We agree that the situation was mishandled, mostly by Dr Drugs for Gay Sex w/ clinical Anger Issues, but not entirely. I'm sure this incident will cause all airlines to review their procedures to ensure this doesn't happen and they wind up buying people off before they get on the plane, but these lefty solutions -- no overselling of seats in an industry that has literally millions of no-shows and/ or just having small jets available to ferry crews -- is what's ridiculous My analogy is perfectly appropriate -- a lefty overkill, oblivious to costs, to ensure no one ever runs into a delay, because, you know, as Lefty Americans, not being delayed is an inalienable right that probably exists in that Constitution that you don't care about until you think it entitles you to something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Pops said: Most people think healthcare and cel phones should be free also you are not a wing nut? I won't even read the rest of this it's already pointless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, noonereal said: you are not a wing nut? I won't even read the rest of this it's already pointless You think guys that understand someone has to pay for things are wing nuts Says more about you, really I don't expect you to expend any of your deep thoughts on this truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, Pops said: You think guys that understand someone has to pay for things are wing nuts No. I am not a wing nut and I yelled and yelled about Bernnie running around yelling free. Look at my thread yesterday, about NY public college no longer taking tuition from students. I was very careful to not use the word free, Because it's not. I think it insane that kids ever had to pay their own tuition but I most certainly do understand it aint free. What I advocate is that those who profit on that education pay for it. You know, invest in their own business. I am tired of government paying and individuals paying for corporate training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, rockinl said: I can seriously picture this Pops cat. Newsman hair, khakis, loafers, Polo collar popped up, sweater tied around his neck. LOL Pops the Douche, in my most "nasally" nerdy, Northern voice..."Hey you guys...let's get a bottle of pop!" LOL I'm mostly an observer now days. But I do get a kick out of them just wanting to kick ass and how much you fail to understand the gravity of it all. I go to immediate action of Slap Pull Observe Release tap and Shoot. You will get a kick out of that old warrior acronym SPORTS. Pops have always been cool with me even in Disagreeing on matters. I think he is prior Service. I have never had a tiff with him. And since I no longer comment on these subjects. I am sure it will remain that way. Now I will go back to reading about how United should have Murdered the Bum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, DevilDog said: I'm mostly an observer now days. But I do get a kick out of them just wanting to kick ass and how much you fail to understand the gravity of it all. I go to immediate action of Slap Pull Observe Release tap and Shoot. You will get a kick out of that old warrior acronym SPORTS. Pops have always been cool with me even in Disagreeing on matters. I think he is prior Service. I have never had a tiff with him. And since I no longer comment on these subjects. I am sure it will remain that way. Now I will go back to reading about how United should have Murdered the Bum. Just to be clear, i am not a veteran -- just respect the heck out of guys like you that are ... especially USMC Gunnery Sergants even moreso than generals or admirals from the academies we all owe you guys a debt of gratitude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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