Sen. Joe Manchin has some stern advice for President Trump: Grow up!

[Hardcore Troubador]

15 minutes ago, Testadura said:

and you don't see Trump pouring gas on the fire day after day??...YES HE DOES

isn't his job is to unite the country??... YES, BUT HE'S NEVER BEEN ALLOWED TO (AND THAT WAS INTENTIONAL), AND THE PEOPLE WITH REAL $ INVESTED OR POWER DON'T WANT HIS TYPE OR BERNIE'S TYPE OF UNITING.  THOSE TWO AREN'T GLOBALISTS, THEY DON'T LIKE THE OFF-SHORING, THEY LIKE MANUFACTURING MORE, ETC.  THEY DIFFER A LOT SOCIALLY THOUGH

and he hasn't tried to do that at all since taking office....SEE ABOVE

his State of the Union address was a campaign rally for his base...he makes his living dividing and concurring IMO…."YES, LIKE CALLING PEOPLE DEPLORABLE LIKE HILLARY.  LIKE DON LEMON'S PERFORMANCE.  ETC.  WHAT'S HE'S UP AGAINST IS UNPRECEDENTED, AND STARTED ASAP AND HASN'T ENDED.  IT IS A DISGRACE, IRRESPECTIVE OF HOW FOOLISH HE IS

the fix would be simple"??....IT IS SIMPLE TO THOSE ON THIS BOARD (NOT TO ME)--JUST GET RID OF TRUMP BECAUSE THINGS WERE CLOSE TO PERFECT W/O HIM), AND ALL THAT I POST ABOUT AND ALL THAT THOSE HERE COMPLAIN ABOUT WILL DISAPPEAR OVER TIME.  WE JUST NEED A UNITER.  LOL

******

We're fighting over Globalism and over changing our culture.  They're no compromise on these issues, largely because we're not allowed to discuss them.  Conservatives have finally said enough.  You can't fight with Yale and Evergreen students, LGBTQs, radicals, etc. 

I never understood the whole “Uniter” thing for presidents.  In war time, etc. I get it.  GWB with a bullhorn while standing on the rubble after 9/11 was pretty damn unifying.

But these guys are political creatures who usually come in to office with long careers in politics and firm opinions on what they want to do from a policy perspective.  By definition they’re gonna piss off a lot of people when they do what they’re elected to do.  If people who didn’t vote for them like them as a result of what they do great, but I never understood why that was thought of as a primary motivation.

Was Obama’s party line enactment of Obamacare a “unifying” event?  Was his trashing of a police officer in Cambridge, MA a “unifying event”?

In Trump’s case the TDS makes any attempts at unifying people irrelevant anyway.  So why not go hard and try to enact your policies and fire up your base?

[Testadura]

1 hour ago, HSFBfan said:

Exactly. 

Think about it. Even when washington was fighting for our freedom from a tyrannical government there were many people here in the colonies that favored the crown and fought against washington.

Than less than a 100 years after that we were a divided country over the states rights of slavery. And how certain states should be slave state or free state.

Than 100 years after that we were divided over vietnam 

Than now 60 years later we are divided over everything. We actually have people in this country that are helping illegals including military personnel. We have people that dont even want us to have borders anymore. The division has always been there. The questions is how wide will it get 

read about when Jackson was President, and the reaction to his letting the National Bank Act lapse.  The Elites have always hated populism.  Jacksonian democracy  scared the shit out of deTocqueville.  That's why we have a Constitutional Republic (which was pre-Jackson, of course, but it was those sentiments), which is fine by me.

I was not a populist till now.  When I saw our Country pushed and sold down the river, and the culture disappear and SJWs appear, I looked at my 3 kids, and said enough.  No live-able cities.  Spend the most $ on education and social programs with little to show.  Everyone a fucking victim.  People growing dumber.  Globalists looking for a NWO with unelected Elites (technocrats) telling elected officials in sovereign nations what to do.  No more Butchie, no more of this.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD2hHGF81OU

[HSFBfan]

1 minute ago, Testadura said:

read about when Jackson was President, and the reaction to his letting the National Bank Act lapse.  The Elites have always hated populism.  Jacksonian democracy  scared the shit out of deTocqueville.  That's why we have a Constitutional Republic (which was pre-Jackson, of course, but it was those sentiments), which is fine by me.

I was not a populist till now.  When I saw our Country pushed and sold down the river, and the culture disappear and SJWs appear, I looked at my 3 kids, and said enough.  No live-able cities.  Spend the most $ on education and social programs with little to show.  Everyone a fucking victim.  People growing dumber.  Globalists looking for a NWO with unelected Elites (technocrats) telling elected officials in sovereign nations what to do.  No more Butchie, no more of this.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD2hHGF81OU

Exactly. The elites have all these promises and they have done nothing for us

[I AM IRONMAN]

True division between a sane man and aderanged snowflake

https://youtu.be/Q8AYiN2XbbE

[HSFBfan]

This is from 2016

Turns out liberals are the real authoritarians.

A political-science journal that published an oft-cited study claiming conservatives were more likely to show traits associated with “psychoticism” now says it got it wrong. Very wrong.

The American Journal of Political Science published a correction this year saying that the 2012 paper has “an error” — and that liberal political beliefs, not conservative ones, are actually linked to psychoticism.

[Testadura]

not traditional or classical Enlightenment liberals

the radicals or progressives have Marxist undercurrents, whether they admit it or not (or whether they're aware or not), which are totalitarian and Utopian.  I wouldn't say that they are psychotic.  About 1% of our population are psychopaths, and about 5% are sociopaths.

Modern conservatism (which is not orthodoxy, such as Judaism or Catholicism or Islam) sees that building great countries is very hard; sees that much of what makes a country great is not really knowable in a scientific way (e.g., culture is hard to develop and defend, but easy to demolish); and sees that reinventing, re-doing, revolution, scrapping, etc., are generally terrible ideas, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE NO IDEAS OF YOUR OWN OR IF YOU'VE NEVER BUILT SHIT IN YOUR LIFE.  E.g., Yale or Evergreen students.

And so, conservatives wish to preserve/conserve what is good and difficult to build and maintain--e.g., culture, religion, tradition, the traditional family, etc.  They also see that we stand on the shoulders of those before us, and are given an inheritance from those before us that we have to conserve and improve if possible for those who come after us.

Wiki Edmund Burke and read his views on the French Revolution.   That's a good start.

[Hardcore Troubador]

2 minutes ago, Testadura said:

not traditional or classical Enlightenment liberals

the radicals or progressives have Marxist undercurrents, whether they admit it or not (or whether they're aware or not), which are totalitarian and Utopian.  I wouldn't say that they are psychotic.  About 1% of our population are psychopaths, and about 5% are sociopaths.

Modern conservatism (which is not orthodoxy, such as Judaism or Catholicism or Islam) sees that building great countries is very hard; sees that much of what makes a country great is not really knowable in a scientific way (e.g., culture is hard to develop and defend, but easy to demolish); and sees that reinventing, re-doing, revolution, scrapping, etc., are generally terrible ideas, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE NO IDEAS OF YOUR OWN OR IF YOU'VE NEVER BUILT SHIT IN YOUR LIFE.  E.g., Yale or Evergreen students.

And so, conservatives wish to preserve/conserve what is good and difficult to build and maintain--e.g., culture, religion, tradition, the traditional family, etc.  They also see that we stand on the shoulders of those before us, and are given an inheritance from those before us that we have to conserve and improve if possible for those who come after us.

Wiki Edmund Burke and read his views on the French Revolution.   That's a good start.

Well said.

I have Jesse Norman’s bio of Burke sitting on the floor by my bed.  It’s under a pile of other books but I’m looking forward to getting around to it.

[RedZone]

SO dictator trump has normalized acting like a 6th grader and I get a very poor history lesson from the wannabe history majors of prepgridironcomprehensive.com for my trouble. ..

#hurtme

 

[noonereal]

6 hours ago, Testadura said:

The uniting culture's gone.

what was the uniting culture of the past? 

We are only united during war and then only some wars.

3 hours ago, Testadura said:

We're fighting over Globalism and over changing our culture.

are we fighting over changing our culture or are we are fighting over which culture will rule?

No different than sects in the middle east. We do not attach a religious identity to our sects is the only real differance.

 

 

 

 

[DBP66]

4 hours ago, Testadura said:

and you don't see Trump pouring gas on the fire day after day??...YES HE DOES

isn't his job is to unite the country??... YES, BUT HE'S NEVER BEEN ALLOWED TO (AND THAT WAS INTENTIONAL), AND THE PEOPLE WITH REAL $ INVESTED OR POWER DON'T WANT HIS TYPE OR BERNIE'S TYPE OF UNITING.  THOSE TWO AREN'T GLOBALISTS, THEY DON'T LIKE THE OFF-SHORING, THEY LIKE MANUFACTURING MORE, ETC.  THEY DIFFER A LOT SOCIALLY THOUGH...he needs to try a lot harder..he's never made an effort.

and he hasn't tried to do that at all since taking office....SEE ABOVE

his State of the Union address was a campaign rally for his base...he makes his living dividing and concurring IMO…."YES, LIKE CALLING PEOPLE DEPLORABLE LIKE HILLARY.  LIKE DON LEMON'S PERFORMANCE.  ETC.  WHAT'S HE'S UP AGAINST IS UNPRECEDENTED, AND STARTED ASAP AND HASN'T ENDED.  IT IS A DISGRACE, IRRESPECTIVE OF HOW FOOLISH HE IS..He is the President and needs to act like a President once in a while...frog marching a Purple Heart vet because he told the truth?!

the fix would be simple"??....IT IS SIMPLE TO THOSE ON THIS BOARD (NOT TO ME)--JUST GET RID OF TRUMP BECAUSE THINGS WERE CLOSE TO PERFECT W/O HIM), ...if you say so?..AND ALL THAT I POST ABOUT AND ALL THAT THOSE HERE COMPLAIN ABOUT WILL DISAPPEAR OVER TIME.  WE JUST NEED A UNITER.  LOL..no just someone with just a little compassion and who doesn't act like a mob boss.

******

We're fighting over Globalism/Protectionism and over changing our culture...I agree, whites are becoming minorities and that doesn't sit well with the right.  They're no compromise on these issues, largely because we're not allowed to discuss them.  Conservatives have finally said enough.  You can't fight with Yale and Evergreen students, LGBTQs, radicals, etc...LOL..you guys own talk radio and Fox news is propaganda 24/7...Hannity and Trump collude with each other for goodness sakes!

 

[I AM IRONMAN]

7,145

😭👶

[Hardcore Troubador]

59 minutes ago, noonereal said:

what was the uniting culture of the past? 

We are only united during war and then only some wars.

are we fighting over changing our culture or are we are fighting over which culture will rule?

No different than sects in the middle east. We do not attach a religious identity to our sects is the only real differance.

 

 

 

 

And so far at least it seems we’ve worked out a system to allow those disputes to be resolved without having to resort to picking up our AKs and ululating in the streets...

[I AM IRONMAN]

Krusty...you are beyond hope..

Still think $650 a night is equal to $8m for a weekend?

See. Help . Fast

[DevilDog]

10 hours ago, HSFBfan said:

Havent we been divided since the beginning of the country??

That is usually the consequences of killing natives and enslaving Africans at its beginnings.  Isn't it strange there are more descendants of the latter than the former? Now ask yourself whose always pushed that division.  The answer isn't Republican or Democrat either. 

Now back to the regular scheduled Program of Trump Greatness.  I apologize for inserting a few truths. And this damn sure predates him. I will Take President Trump all day over those beginning Bigots and hypocrites. See I praise him when it's proper.  They make him look like a Civil Rights Icon 😃

[noonereal]

11 hours ago, Hardcore Troubador said:

And so far at least it seems we’ve worked out a system to allow those disputes to be resolved without having to resort to picking up our AKs and ululating in the streets...

you never heard of the civil war and civil rights carnage? 

We are a pot of water simmering. Every so often we boil over. 

 

The divide always has been and continues to be there. We are close to going from a simmer to  boil again now. 

[concha]

8 hours ago, DevilDog said:

That is usually the consequences of killing natives and enslaving Africans at its beginnings.  Isn't it strange there are more descendants of the latter than the former? Now ask yourself whose always pushed that division.  The answer isn't Republican or Democrat either. 

Now back to the regular scheduled Program of Trump Greatness.  I apologize for inserting a few truths. And this damn sure predates him. I will Take President Trump all day over those beginning Bigots and hypocrites. See I praise him when it's proper.  They make him look like a Civil Rights Icon 😃

 

Native American populations were decimated overwhelmingly by disease.  Had Europeans arrived just as traders and explorers, the results would not have been much different. And stronger peoples have conquered and enslaved weaker ones for time immemorial. Europeans, Asians, Africans, Native Americans... the evil Europeans just happened to be in a position to do it most recently in history. Let's not kid ourselves that everyone else in the world have spent their existence sitting around the fire and hugging one another while singing Kum-Ba-Yah

Africans enslaved one another and provided a market for some Europeans to exploit.

As long as we're inserting a few truths.

The "White European as center of all evil in history" schtick doesn't stand up to scrutiny very well.

 

[Hardcore Troubador]

1 hour ago, noonereal said:

you never heard of the civil war and civil rights carnage? 

We are a pot of water simmering. Every so often we boil over. 

 

The divide always has been and continues to be there. We are close to going from a simmer to  boil again now. 

Nope.  Never heard of either.  Please do tell.

I was referring to the social media inspired “tempest in a teapot” that is not as serious as and is not going to result in anything approaching the Civil War or its legacy from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  

[Testadura]

14 hours ago, noonereal said:

what was the uniting culture of the past? 

We are only united during war and then only some wars.

are we fighting over changing our culture or are we are fighting over which culture will rule?

No different than sects in the middle east. We do not attach a religious identity to our sects is the only real differance.

 

 

 

 

wrong.  i'll say no more

[Testadura]

2 hours ago, noonereal said:

you never heard of the civil war and civil rights carnage? 

We are a pot of water simmering. Every so often we boil over. 

 

The divide always has been and continues to be there. We are close to going from a simmer to  boil again now. 

you skip over a whole lot, and draw a characterization that doesn't fit the facts

[Testadura]

10 hours ago, DevilDog said:

That is usually the consequences of killing natives and enslaving Africans at its beginnings.  Isn't it strange there are more descendants of the latter than the former? Now ask yourself whose always pushed that division.  The answer isn't Republican or Democrat either. 

Now back to the regular scheduled Program of Trump Greatness.  I apologize for inserting a few truths. And this damn sure predates him. I will Take President Trump all day over those beginning Bigots and hypocrites. See I praise him when it's proper.  They make him look like a Civil Rights Icon 😃

1619

does it cover the African part of the slave trade?  Why would anyone capture and sell their own people?  They must not have been seeing thru 21st-Century lenses.  Remember, Europeans weren't going inland to catch Africans.  In the 20th Century, one third of the French forces in Western Africa had malaria at any one time.  They weren't suited to go on slave raids.

Does 1619 mention slavery since the dawn of time?  Saudi Arabia ended it in 1962 under British pressure.  Oman in 1970.  Mauritania in 2007.  Wow, that's recent.  Didn't they get the word sooner?  Islam still sanctions slavery today.  Boko Haram in Western Africa with their slave raids and shit. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/02/21/locals-call-boko-haram-slave-raiders-heres-what-that-means-and-why-it-matters/

40 million or so slaves in the world today.  You, a sensitive man of history, must be up in arms.  Genocide still in the world today, especially in the Motherland.  I'm sure you're active in combatting it.  Mauritania has been going back and forth legalizing it and making it illegal, but it still exists there big time despite the 2007 ban.  As it does in Libya.

From memory:  Something like 10% of free blacks in Virginia in the 1840s or so owned slaves.  One dude owned around 170, and Virginia wasn't really the Land of Cotton.  How could any black man own just one back man (assuming it wasn't to protect him) if it were so obvious back then that slavery was just not right on any level?  Or were blacks just not given the opportunities and resources to own slaves?  10% is a lot when you knock out 50% women and kids and the poor who couldn't afford to own slaves. 

Slavery was despicable.  Period.  But you're using it ham-handedly and politically; so, you must get ready for heat--and it will come.

I'm sure that 10% of the population's being indentured servants back then gets your goat, too.  A Pulitzer historian characterized indentured servants, and they had vicious 10-year terms, as lased cars because they had been really worn out, as they had to be turned in after 10 yrs.  Life-long property sometimes gets better care--for selfish and horrific reasons.

History seeks truth, not narratives.  Help us to find the whole truth, purely for the truth-seeking reasons, not for politics or power.

[noonereal]

7 hours ago, Hardcore Troubador said:

Nope.  Never heard of either.  Please do tell.

I was referring to the social media inspired “tempest in a teapot” that is not as serious as and is not going to result in anything approaching the Civil War or its legacy from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  

We can both visualize the type of social unrest we saw in the 60's, likely worse, if something set it off.  Things are not as rosy as you suggest.

[noonereal]

6 hours ago, Testadura said:

you skip over a whole lot, and draw a characterization that doesn't fit the facts

in micro, sure, in macro it is still the same core groups at odds. 

[noonereal]

On 2/10/2020 at 4:00 PM, Hardcore Troubador said:

I never understood the whole “Uniter” thing for presidents.

Strength in unity, it's primal.

The greater good is derived from greater unity. 

 

[Cat_Scratch]

On 2/10/2020 at 1:47 PM, DBP66 said:

and you don't see Trump pouring gas on the fire day after day??...isn't his job is to unite the country??... and he hasn't tried to do that at all since taking office....his State of the Union address was a campaign rally for his base...he makes his living dividing and concurring IMO…."the fix would be simple"??....I wish that were true!

I see both parties punching each other for stupid stuff. I see spoiled crybabies throwing tantrums when they don't get their way. I see it from both sides, but more often now from the Liberals. It is sickening. Test is correct, this has been going on for a long time and at an alarming pace since Bush Jr. I watched the media melt down first hand when Bush won, Liberals crying out about hanging chads and vowing to not give Bush the win. 

It is getting worse yearly.

[DBP66]

2 hours ago, Cat_Scratch said:

I see both parties punching each other for stupid stuff. I see spoiled crybabies throwing tantrums when they don't get their way. I see it from both sides, but more often now from the Liberals. It is sickening. Test is correct, this has been going on for a long time and at an alarming pace since Bush Jr. I watched the media melt down first hand when Bush won, Liberals crying out about hanging chads and vowing to not give Bush the win. 

It is getting worse yearly.

people had problems with both Bush's for two legitimate reasons IMO...the S.C. handed Bush his Presidency and Jr started a war on a false premise...that's why the "liberals" and others had problems with the Bush's.

Trump acknowledges he asked a country to interfere in our election and the left should turn a blind eye...after Mulvany's confession??..the left has a lot to bitch about IMO...no Bolton testimony?...75% of Americans wanted to hear what he had to say.