Bormio Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 But guess what ... they are very reluctant to lock down again because their economies are decimated. Cases are rising steadily and in France and Spain are already the equivalent now of 25,000 cases daily in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15yds4gibberish Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 The thread title is Europe, so the per capita cases and death chart comparisons below, but you can run any country you like here. More than 175,000 dead Americans. More than 1000 more Americans dying a day. ~1,100,000 Americans applied for unemployment last week. American carnage. One cannot currently get into the EU with an American passport. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFORDGAWOLVES Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 But Trumpy is celebrating something or another... as a win. Mother of God. bgw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted August 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, 15yds4gibberish said: The thread title is Europe, so the per capita cases and death chart comparisons below, but you can run any country you like here. More than 175,000 dead Americans. More than 1000 more Americans dying a day. ~1,100,000 Americans applied for unemployment last week. American carnage. One cannot currently get into the EU with an American passport. You cannot travel from many EU countries to one another. Cases are shooting up in Spain, France, even Germany. The U.K. has risen. And as you well know, deaths will follow (although the death rate in most places is lower than the spring). France and Spain are 4,000-5,000 cases a day (in countries with lower per capita testing), and are 1/7 to 1/5 the size of the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 40 minutes ago, 15yds4gibberish said: The thread title is Europe, so the per capita cases and death chart comparisons below, but you can run any country you like here. More than 175,000 dead Americans. More than 1000 more Americans dying a day. ~1,100,000 Americans applied for unemployment last week. American carnage. One cannot currently get into the EU with an American passport. You trying to make a case for the US being better off if it were to close the borders? or just attempting to show that Europe is more "xenophobic" than others you accuse of the same..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15yds4gibberish Posted August 22, 2020 Report Share Posted August 22, 2020 9 hours ago, Bormio said: You cannot travel from many EU countries to one another. Cases are shooting up in Spain, France, even Germany. The U.K. has risen. And as you well know, deaths will follow (although the death rate in most places is lower than the spring). France and Spain are 4,000-5,000 cases a day (in countries with lower per capita testing), and are 1/7 to 1/5 the size of the US. As mentioned above, you can run your own data at the link provided. You listed 4 countries which I bolded. When it comes to daily cases per capita, three of them don't belong in the conversation. And I'm not sure most Americans will find 'Spain has almost as many daily cases per capita as the US,' all that compelling an argument... After Spain, the US currently has nearly 3x the number of daily cases per capita of the next closest, France. The US currently has nearly 10x the daily cases per capita of both Germany and the UK - Almost an order of magnitude difference -- Saying cases are 'shooting up' there is a stretch. I agree with you that deaths are a lagging indicator. We can revisit the daily deaths in these countries in a few weeks. For now, here they are (Currently the US is approximately 5x, 15x, 30x, and 60x the daily number of per capita deaths): I don't believe the US is anywhere near herd immunity (yes, I read the NYT articles you didn't link). But I do believe nobody has done more than IMPOTUS to bring us closer to herd immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted September 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 Spain and France over 10,000 cases a day (50,000-70,000 if the size of the US). UK up to nearly 5,000 cases daily and talking lockdowns again. Death rates are still quite low (the virus is less lethal?). Guess who is not having a second wave - the dumbass Swedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 On 8/21/2020 at 10:14 PM, Bormio said: But guess what ... they are very reluctant to lock down again because their economies are decimated. Cases are rising steadily and in France and Spain are already the equivalent now of 25,000 cases daily in the US. Did they let the Chinese in again?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted September 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 9 hours ago, HSFBfan said: Did they let the Chinese in again?? No, lockdowns don’t work unless you stay locked down. A temporary measure to “flatten the curve” - yes. But an unsustainable long-term strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted September 23, 2020 Report Share Posted September 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Bormio said: No, lockdowns don’t work unless you stay locked down. A temporary measure to “flatten the curve” - yes. But an unsustainable long-term strategy. People need to get over the fact that people get sick. You can't destroy your economy and country because people get sick. This whole thing has been nonsense now for months 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted October 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 I think we can put to bed the idea that Europe did this so much better than us. “If only we had kept the lockdowns in place a month or 2 longer like Europe”. England and France infections now at a rate that would correlate to 85,000-90,000 confirmed cases daily in the US. Deaths are also rising, but like the US not at the level seen in the spring. Lockdowns were never anything more than a temporary measure that could not be sustained without devastating the country. They do not save lives 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Bormio said: I think we can put to bed the idea that Europe did this so much better than us. “If only we had kept the lockdowns in place a month or 2 longer like Europe”. England and France infections now at a rate that would correlate to 85,000-90,000 confirmed cases daily in the US. Deaths are also rising, but like the US not at the level seen in the spring. Lockdowns were never anything more than a temporary measure that could not be sustained without devastating the country. They do not save lives They do however believe in science and are not actively undermining them at every turn. So no, we can not put that to bed. Given the two opposing strategies, I choose the one that supports science based approach rather than what Trump is doing. I mean, who wouldn't, unless you are in a cult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15yds4gibberish Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Bormio said: I think we can put to bed the idea that Europe did this so much better than us.... Why? Other than Spain, more dead American's per capita total, still adding more dead American's per capita per day. Complete failure of this administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownSouth Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 9:14 PM, Bormio said: Spain and France over 10,000 cases a day (50,000-70,000 if the size of the US). UK up to nearly 5,000 cases daily and talking lockdowns again. Death rates are still quite low (the virus is less lethal?). Guess who is not having a second wave - the dumbass Swedes. Norway, population 5.4 million Finland, population 5.5 miilion, Denmark, population 5.8 million Sweden, population 10 million Norway, 275 deaths (15k cases) Finland, 346 deaths (11,350 cases) Denmark, 663 deaths (31k cass) Sweden, 5900 DEATHS, (97.5k CASES) Great job, Sweden. Dr. Quack quacks again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted October 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 23 minutes ago, 15yds4gibberish said: Why? Other than Spain, more dead American's per capita total, more dead American's per capita per day. Complete failure of this administration. Europe’s second wave is just starting - the deaths are yet to really rise. See where we are in 2-3 months. The numbers per capita are not that dissimilar (US 656 deaths/1M, UK 627) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownSouth Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Bormio said: “If only we had kept the lockdowns in place a month or 2 longer like Europe”. Yes, to get down to a low baseline. They did, we didn't. When you get to a low baseline you can then isolate new cases and react quickly and effectively. Europe blew it. They basically gave up a 35-3 lead in the 4th quarter. South Korea did not - they locked down and lifted restrictions a bit, when there's a flair in cases they lock that area down again and contact trace the area. South Korea is basically grinding a 6-0 lead out as long as they can until a vaccine comes on line. We absolutely should have stayed locked down the extra month or two, our cases and deaths would have flattened down to nothing and stayed like that for a month. Had we had a real tracing program in place, we could have (theoretically) opened things up a bit and isolated problem areas, locked them back down, and kept the rest of the country going. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted October 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, DownSouth said: Norway, population 5.4 million Finland, population 5.5 miilion, Denmark, population 5.8 million Sweden, population 10 million Norway, 275 deaths (15k cases) Finland, 346 deaths (11,350 cases) Denmark, 663 deaths (31k cass) Sweden, 5900 DEATHS, (97,500 CASES) Great job, Sweden. Dr. Quack quacks again. See where we are in 6 months. Sweden did not lockdown and is not having a second wave. Unlike most of Europe. Even in Germany, the cases are accelerating 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 minute ago, DownSouth said: Norway, population 5.4 million Finland, population 5.5 miilion, Denmark, population 5.8 million Sweden, population 10 million Norway, 275 deaths (15k cases) Finland, 346 deaths (11,350 cases) Denmark, 663 deaths (31k cass) Sweden, 5900 DEATHS, (97,500 CASES) Great job, Sweden. Dr. Quack quacks again. Sweden is now completely (or near as damn) open, is it not? And enjoying very few issues with Covid. Apparently about half of deaths in Sweden were in care homes, so sounds like they may have had a Swedish Cuomo issue. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-strategy.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/28/europe/sweden-uk-coronavirus-immunity-analysis-gbr-intl/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15yds4gibberish Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Bormio said: Europe’s second wave is just starting - the deaths are yet to really rise. See where we are in 2-3 months. The numbers per capita are not that dissimilar (US 656 deaths/1M, UK 627) You wrote the same basic thing on August 22. I agreed to come back and visit the death rate after some time which I just did. We can revisit it again after 2-3 months as you suggest above. In the meantime here is the same claim you made 6ish weeks ago. On 8/22/2020 at 6:31 AM, Bormio said: You cannot travel from many EU countries to one another. Cases are shooting up in Spain, France, even Germany. The U.K. has risen. And as you well know, deaths will follow (although the death rate in most places is lower than the spring). France and Spain are 4,000-5,000 cases a day (in countries with lower per capita testing), and are 1/7 to 1/5 the size of the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted October 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 Just now, 15yds4gibberish said: You wrote the same basic thing on August 22. I agreed to come back and visit the death rate after some time which I just did. We can revisit it again after 2-3 months as you suggest above. In the meantime here is the same claim you made 6ish weeks ago. France is now 18,000 cases a day and rising. The U.K. is 17,000+. Deaths are now longer in single or low double digits. Triple digit deaths will be there soon - which is the same as 500/day in the US at a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownSouth Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Bormio said: I think we can put to bed the idea that Europe did this so much better than us. Please correct me if my numbers are off, they could be by a little bit so if you find better info then correct it. The European Union + England = about 500 million population USA = 328 million population USA COVID deaths = 212k EU + England COVID deaths = 193.5k By those numbers, it appears the EU + England has done a substantially better job. Better lockdowns? Socialized medicine that allowed anyone to get treated without fearing a massive bill like our system? - You tell me because I don't know what would cause such a massive gulf in population and death numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted October 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 minute ago, DownSouth said: Please correct me if my numbers are off, they could be by a little bit so if you find better info then correct it. The European Union + England = about 500 million population USA = 328 million population USA COVID deaths = 212k EU + England COVID deaths = 193.5k By those numbers, it appears the EU + England has done a substantially better job. Better lockdowns? Socialized medicine that allowed anyone o get treated without fearing a massive bill like our system? - You tell me because I don't know what would cause such a massive gulf in population and death numbers. Eastern Europe has been largely spared this (or not counted fully). But that is changing now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownSouth Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 21 minutes ago, Bormio said: See where we are in 6 months. Sweden did not lockdown and is not having a second wave. Unlike most of Europe. Even in Germany, the cases are accelerating Norway, Finland, and Denmark did lock down. They combine for 16.7 million people and 1,250 COVID deaths. Sweden at 10 million population had 5900 deaths. None of them are locked down now and they all have the same low numbers. So Sweden NOW has the same numbers as its neighbors, but has 5900 dead compared to their neighbors having 4.7k less deaths with 6.7 million more people. And you think that's a good thing? What kind of doctor are you? Seriously. Because it seems like you care more about Donald Trump's ego and "the economy," than you do about public health. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 On 8/22/2020 at 9:12 AM, 15yds4gibberish said: The thread title is Europe, so the per capita cases and death chart comparisons below, but you can run any country you like here. More than 175,000 dead Americans. More than 1000 more Americans dying a day. ~1,100,000 Americans applied for unemployment last week. American carnage. One cannot currently get into the EU with an American passport. Do u care about going to the EU?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownSouth Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, concha said: Sweden is now completely (or near as damn) open, is it not? And enjoying very few issues with Covid. Apparently about half of deaths in Sweden were in care homes, so sounds like they may have had a Swedish Cuomo issue. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-strategy.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/28/europe/sweden-uk-coronavirus-immunity-analysis-gbr-intl/index.html Most of Florida's deaths came from nursing homes too. This is from July 28th when FL's deaths were at 6k (they're now over 15k just 2 months later). 45% of FL's COVID deaths come from Long-Term Care Facilities All Desantis' fault I guess? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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