Europe is having a surge of Covid again (of course) ....

[DownSouth]

1 minute ago, HSFBfan said:

Do u care about going to the EU?? 

[concha]

12 minutes ago, DownSouth said:

Most of Florida's deaths came from nursing homes too.

This is from July 28th when FL's deaths were at 6k (they're now over 15k just 2 months later).

45% of FL's COVID deaths come from Long-Term Care Facilities

All Desantis' fault I guess?

 

Or perhaps a reflection of Florida being a mecca for old folks. You do realize lots of old folks either live in Florida permanently or make it their winter home, right? And lots of them live in care facilities?

Please advise if DeSantis made it a state policy to send Covid carriers into old folks homes. Thanks in advance.

 

[concha]

25 minutes ago, DownSouth said:

Please correct me if my numbers are off, they could be by a little bit so if you find better info then correct it.

 

The European Union + England = about 500 million population

USA = 328 million population

 

USA COVID deaths = 212k

EU + England COVID deaths = 193.5k 

 

By those numbers, it appears the EU + England has done a substantially better job. Better lockdowns? Socialized medicine that allowed anyone to get treated without fearing a massive bill like our system? - You tell me because I don't know what would cause such a massive gulf in population and death numbers.

 

Our numbers would be better if not for the piss poor performance of so many blue states and sending Covid patients into grandma's care home.

Thanks, Andrew C...

 

[HSFBfan]

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54442386

Coronavirus: Health experts join global anti-lockdown movement

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54442386

[HSFBfan]

Arizona investigating up to 2 million fraudulent unemployment claims

https://www.azfamily.com/news/investigations/3_on_your_side/originals/arizona-investigating-up-to-2-million-fraudulent-unemployment-claims/article_a6246f4a-0985-11eb-aff2-e7bd93d15629.html

[Bormio]

Britain headed back to lockdowns.  Up to about 17,000 cases confirmed daily (equivalent to 80-85,000 in the US).  143 deaths today (about 700 in the US).  They are calling it a circuit-breaker.  It will break Britain for sure.

[Troll]

On 10/8/2020 at 3:27 PM, 15yds4gibberish said:

You wrote the same basic thing on August 22. I agreed to come back and visit the death rate after some time which I just did.  We can revisit it again after 2-3 months as you suggest above.  In the meantime here is ...

 

....in the meantime...

Looks like the WHO has come out on the side of your dr. quack here,

and advises against  lockdowns...

are you going to listen to the "doctor experts" now....

or are you going to have to change your tune (and silly stat fails)?

 

maybe you can just hum a few bars...

 

 

 

 

[Bormio]

European countries are now in many cases seeing new cases at a per capita rate equivalent to 150,000 new cases daily in the US.  The Czech Republic, who prided itself with its mask campaign “I protect you and you protect me”, and who was lightly touched in the first go round, is the #1 hotspot in Europe.  Lockdowns, masks whatever - the virus is going to do its thing - now or in a few months from now.

[Bormio]

Of course this story is getting no coverage in the US press, cause Europe “did it right unlike Trump, and beat the virus”.

[Bormio]

Also the WHO came out and said remdisivir does not save lives or shorten hospital stays, after the esteemed Dr. Fauci had been humping the drug for months.  Crickets in the media.  Remdisivir - a drug desperately in search of a disease.

[Atticus Finch]

2 hours ago, Bormio said:

Of course this story is getting no coverage in the US press, cause Europe “did it right unlike Trump, and beat the virus”.

Maybe because we have our own surge to cover?

🤷‍♂️

[Atticus Finch]

But let's keep listening to perhaps the stupidest person on this forum regarding COVID-19.

The esteemed Dr. Quack.

[15yds4gibberish]

1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said:

Maybe because we have our own surge to cover?

🤷‍♂️

@Bormio's claim is nonsense.  What has been happening in Europe with COVID has been in the NYT just about every day.  Bormio's been pimping herd immunity since March - Herd Immunity is just Republican speak for 'we're incompetent, we can't govern, we give up.'  Since then he's been running around trying to find some advanced country (today it's the Czech Republic) that's been doing worse than the US.  His claim in August was that there were "suggestions that herd immunity may be in play in NYC and London."  Sure.

Complete public health and economic failure of this administration.

 

On 8/18/2020 at 2:55 PM, Bormio said:

The Swedes have published more data showing robust and increasing T cell immunity to Covid, even in the absence of neutralizing antibodies.  The same T cell immunity in SARS patients has been shown to have persisted since 2005.  The idea is firming up that Covid immunity may last decades - a not unexpected finding.  And a finding which would mean that herd immunity could end this.  And there has been suggestions (the NYT even wrote about it) that herd immunity may be in play in NYC and London.  Also that achieving herd immunity may require not nearly as many people having the disease as originally thought.

 

[Bormio]

3 minutes ago, 15yds4gibberish said:

@Bormio's claim is nonsense.  What has been happening in Europe with COVID has been in the NYT just about every day.  He's been pimping herd immunity since March - Herd Immunity is just Republican speak for 'we're incompetent, we can't govern,  we give up.'  Since then he's been running around trying to find some advanced country (today it's the Czech Republic) that's been doing worse than the US.  His claim in August was that we were "suggestions that herd immunity may be in play in NYC and London."  Sure.

Complete public health and economic failure of this administration.

 

 

Whatever you think of the morality of herd immunity, it is how epidemics end.  I hope there is a vaccine soon, but tying public policy to something that quite likely will not happen in the near term seems Pollyannish.  It is not just the Czech Republic,  France had 30,000 cases yesterday-with a population about 19% of the US.  The U.K. is approaching 20,000 cases daily.  In Belgium nearly 1/1000 people get this EVERY DAY now (would be 330,000 cases in the US).  Germany’s daily cases have tripled in about 10 days.  Lockdowns are unsustainable, and when they are relaxed, cases explode.  Public policy makers have to deal with that fact.  

[Bormio]

Protests against new lockdowns are accelerating in Europe as fast as the cases.  People cannot keep doing this.  We cannot keep paying people to not work and people have to eat.  If this is occurring in Europe, imagine the hell that will ensue here if we try locking down again.  You cannot stop people from living their lives for month after month - the societal disruption is too great.

[Atticus Finch]

On 10/17/2020 at 12:03 PM, Bormio said:

Protests against new lockdowns are accelerating in Europe as fast as the cases.  People cannot keep doing this.  We cannot keep paying people to not work and people have to eat.  

Bormio's best argument in March: lockdowns are pointless and futile!

Bormio's best argument now: lockdowns are not sustainable!

🤡

[Troll]

1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said:

Bormio's best argument in March: lockdowns are pointless and futile!

Bormio's best argument now: lockdowns are not sustainable!

🤡

at least he has an argument....

 

PS: your quacking like a duck, is very fitting for you...

..you quack well

 

when you are turd tossing 😝

[15yds4gibberish]

On 10/16/2020 at 8:57 AM, Bormio said:

Whatever you think of the morality of herd immunity, it is how epidemics end.  I hope there is a vaccine soon, but tying public policy to something that quite likely will not happen in the near term seems Pollyannish.  It is not just the Czech Republic,  France had 30,000 cases yesterday-with a population about 19% of the US.  The U.K. is approaching 20,000 cases daily.  In Belgium nearly 1/1000 people get this EVERY DAY now (would be 330,000 cases in the US).  Germany’s daily cases have tripled in about 10 days.  Lockdowns are unsustainable, and when they are relaxed, cases explode.  Public policy makers have to deal with that fact.  

Much of your post hinges on a couple of strawmen:  These days I don’t believe anybody is proposing the kind of large, general lockdown that began in March in some places.  Public health safety and economic security isn’t strictly an either or proposition.

You and I have been in agreement since March that Herd Immunity is the end state of affairs (I can bump the thread).  Where we have differed is you have proposed no plan other than let the virus run (the plan is, there is no plan). I’ve advocated taking the steps to slow the spread, pushing cases out while the treatment gets better (and it has), and a vaccine developed (I believe in human ingenuity and per reporting we are in phase 3 trials with 4 vaccines right now).

My argument has been this administration is incompetent and the response has been an unmitigated disaster.  Our so-called leadership continues to undermine, in word, deed, and practice, our best tools for fighting the virus i.e. wearing masks, physical distancing, hand-washing, avoiding large crowds, strategic testing, rapid isolation of infected people, and supportive quarantive for people who need to isolate.   

While you want to compare the US to the hardest hit by pointing out the long anticipated second wave in Europe, you are omitting that the US is unique among peer countries by having a 3-crest pandemic:

I remember when the US used to compare itself to the most successful countries…

So far, this administrations incompetent response has cost 10’s of thousands of American lives.  If you have a problem with that assessment take it up with the peer reviewed Journal of American Medicine Association:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2771841.  An excerpt:

Will this utter catastrophe continue to be the trend going forward?  Dunno.  We’ll see.  But nobody ever went broke betting on the continued incompetence and corruption of this administration. 

 

 

[Bormio]

17 European countries had a record for daily cases in the past 24 hours.  Including the U.K., Italy, Poland, Czech Republic and Germany.  Doctors in Liege, Belgium are at the point of making triage decisions on ventilator use.  All of these places had test and trace programs when lockdowns were released.  They do not work for this virus.  Lockdowns cut cases, but make the subsequent rise more brutal when they are released.  Deaths daily are well into triple digits in France, the U.K., Spain, Italy now. 

I am all for reasonable mitigation efforts, but we need to accept that they are of limited benefit.  The ultimate toll of this virus is likely to be pretty much the same no matter what approach we take, and we need to survive the pandemic without destroying the lives of people who survive.  It may sound harsh, and reasonable people can disagree on what strategies should be adopted, but thinking that a certain magic strategy is going to save a huge number of lives is naive.

[Bormio]

2 million people were never going to die in the US from this virus, because the mortality of the virus is not what it initially thought to be, when older Americans were primarily affected.  But over the long haul 400-500,000 Americans may die of it, and there is very little we can do to change that fact.

[Blueliner]

5 hours ago, Bormio said:

2 million people were never going to die in the US from this virus, because the mortality of the virus is not what it initially thought to be, when older Americans were primarily affected.  But over the long haul 400-500,000 Americans may die of it, and there is very little we can do to change that fact.

I I agree with your position. But the SCAMDEMIC numbers have been cooked for max fear/anti-Trump effect. No question. 

[Bormio]

18 minutes ago, Blueliner said:

I I agree with your position. But the SCAMDEMIC numbers have been cooked for max fear/anti-Trump effect. No question. 

Funny thing, the Brits say Covid appears on 59,000 death certificates to date there, but only 43,000+ deaths are listed officially.  Suspect we are not counting the same way.  

[Bormio]

Europe is on the verge of getting crushed by this.  Cases are at a per capita rate 3-4 times the US.  Deaths are rising as well.  367 today in the U.K.  Over 500 today in France and are probably just starting to take off.  Confirmed case rates approaching 1/800 People EVERY DAY In some countries.  The U.S. strategy of letting this propagate at a manageable level is going to be far better overall than one of lockdown, relax, lockdown, relax.  Maybe his words didn’t soothe you enough, but Trump’s approach, however messy in the making, is looking a lot better.

[World Citizen]

1 hour ago, Bormio said:

Europe is on the verge of getting crushed by this.  Cases are at a per capita rate 3-4 times the US.  Deaths are rising as well.  367 today in the U.K.  Over 500 today in France and are probably just starting to take off.  Confirmed case rates approaching 1/800 People EVERY DAY In some countries.  The U.S. strategy of letting this propagate at a manageable level is going to be far better overall than one of lockdown, relax, lockdown, relax.  Maybe his words didn’t soothe you enough, but Trump’s approach, however messy in the making, is looking a lot better.

You really do not listen to anything Trump says or look at what he does do you?  Trump does not have an approach.  Nothing.  It's a hoax.  It will magically go away.  Were rounding the corner.  It's all China's fault and I take no responsibility.  

That is one hell of an approach Trump has, it's called the 'I give up' plan.  Please tell me you are not still seeing patients and are retired.  

 

[Bormio]

1 minute ago, World Citizen said:

You really do not listen to anything Trump says or look at what he does do you?  Trump does not have an approach.  Nothing.  It's a hoax.  It will magically go away.  Were rounding the corner.  It's all China's fault and I take no responsibility.  

That is one hell of an approach Trump has, it's called the 'I give up' plan.  Please tell me you are not still seeing patients and are retired.  

 

You just are blind.  A brief lockdown to allow the country to up its infrastructure, then muddle through without lockdowns.  He has been consistent.  You don’t like it, but so what?  It is an approach, and not significantly worse, and likely better in the long run, than Europe.  And Obama, Bush, Clinton would not have done better.