Utah on the Rise

[Omaha Vol]

1 minute ago, 954gator said:

Agree 100%, but I wouldn't have enough evidence to say they would for sure be in the top 300 in the nation based on a big loss.  For example Plant and Venice were undefeated when they played STA.  Neither of them really had a win that could help me determine anything definitively.   Maybe, maybe not.  From what I saw of those games, I think Plant was a decent bit better against STA.   I think I'd say the same about Dwyer, but the numbers are going to put them all about equal, and I'd be hard pressed trying to determine who'd win between them.   Different strengths and weaknesses etc.   Who really knows unless they play or there is more to compare?

Most of the top 300 teams in the nation will be comprised of the power states....FL, TX, CA, GA, OH, LA, the sig 6 in NJ. They would, probably, make up 60-70% of the ranking. Those states have better depth and better athletes. It is what it is. That's just the reality of it. I think the 5 teams we've been discussing would crack that ranking. 

[coach_warren]

Trinity League = Mater Dei and SJB

Although I will say Santa Margarita went 7-5 last year and beat Serra soundly, worse than SJR of NJ did and in the first season of the new HC Rich Fisher, who had to use leftovers to assemble his team with everybody leaving SM. Next couple of years, he can build a worthy program. 

 

OLU and JSerra have dropped out of the race, and Servite has not been the same since that 48-8 thrashing DLS gave them in 2011.

[coach_warren]

1 hour ago, 954gator said:

My thing is how could we possibly know?  Yes the trinity league is damn good, but what evidence do we have those bottom teams are better than those teams you mentioned or some random TX playoff teams? This is what we know of the Trinity League last year.  SJB came out on top, and have a slight edge over CC and MD (who you could make an argument for either IMO as #2).   Trinity league is excellent, but last year WAS top heavy at least relatively.   Those top heavy teams didn't necessarily dominate all their big OOS matchups.   I'd say they performed pretty solid,  but nothing so great that I think the bottom teams in their league are that tough.   

SJB split OOS: they beat 5 loss StX soundly.  Lost by 10 to Gorman at home. 

MD played no OOS, but with a split to SJB you can compare them closely (edge to SJB with more convincing win in playoffs)

CC: split OOS:  Beat Chandler in a close game.   Lost to IMG by 1.  Lost to SJB by 2.   

So in a relatively (I say this because you can't deny that at least) top heavy league, the top 2/3 trinity teams split OOS, they did well, but they didn't dominate the world enough to where the bottom teams in the league deserve to ride their coat tails.  You can say the same thing about teams like Plant and Venice.   You can't say they're this good or that good based on the only big game they played they lost soundly, BUT they lost to STA.  That's different IMO to getting smoked by Mission Viejo or Rancho.  That I don't think can be disputed.  

Anyways end of rant.

 

I know it's easy to get carried away when we're comparing the Trinity League to the IMG's and SJB's of the world, but think of it like this. JSerra the "bottom-feeder" of the league that got destroyed by CC beat Sacramento High School, a school in Norcal 35-7. That school, Sacramento went on a 9 game win streak and was at one point the number 1 team in their county. Sac high was destroying all the surrounding schools in their region and the writers that were covering Sac came away extremely impressed by JSerra and the Trinity League, the fact one of their prized treasures Sacramento lost 35-7 to a last place league. It boggled their minds really and even more I bet a lot of coaches/players around that region thought the same behind closed doors about JSerra and the Trinity league, they came away respecting it. I know Sac high doesn't mean much nationally but to the people in the surrounding county, and people familiar with Norcal football I'm sure it left an impression on them

[Belly Bob]

2 hours ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

[...] I believe you are the one failing to see the bigger picture.  I couldn't disageee more with your assessment.  Then again, you also buy in to the DLS hyper improvement theory.

Since you're a big picture guy, how do you explain DLS's pattern of struggling on offense early in the season but not late?

For example, last year they scored...

    28 on Servite,

    21 on East,

    28 on Antioch and

    28 on San Ramon Valley

before scoring...

    33 on SJB, which was more than any other team scored on SJB save for CC and BG.

Lad himself has said that the offense doesn't usually click until about week 10. 

[954gator]

1 hour ago, Omaha Vol said:

Most of the top 300 teams in the nation will be comprised of the power states....FL, TX, CA, GA, OH, LA, the sig 6 in NJ. They would, probably, make up 60-70% of the ranking. Those states have better depth and better athletes. It is what it is. That's just the reality of it. I think the 5 teams we've been discussing would crack that ranking. 

I agree just playing devils advocate  a bit lol.   

[Belly Bob]

3 hours ago, 954gator said:

[...] Trinity league is excellent, but last year WAS top heavy at least relatively.   Those top heavy teams didn't necessarily dominate all their big OOS matchups.   I'd say they performed pretty solid,  but nothing so great that I think the bottom teams in their league are that tough.   

SJB split OOS: they beat 5 loss StX soundly.  Lost by 10 to Gorman at home. 

MD played no OOS, but with a split to SJB you can compare them closely (edge to SJB with more convincing win in playoffs)

CC: split OOS:  Beat Chandler in a close game.   Lost to IMG by 1.  Lost to SJB by 2.   

So in a relatively (I say this because you can't deny that at least) top heavy league, the top 2/3 trinity teams split OOS, they did well, but they didn't dominate the world enough to where the bottom teams in the league deserve to ride their coat tails. [...]

5-loss StX were still OH State Champions, weren't they?

And BG and IMG have been the elite of the elite in the last few years. 

If you put both SJB and MD in any league in 2016, then that league would be top heavy.

JSerra were at the very bottom of the Trinity League last season, going 1-4 in league. But they also went 4-2 outside the TL, losing only to Bishop Amat (by a single score) and to Cen10, and beating the likes of Vista Murieta by two scores, which team the GA guys are trying to prop up in another thread.

So which is it: is the worst TL team still a pretty good football team in the big picture, or is 9-3 Vista Murieta so bad that it doesn't make much sense for the likes of Colquitt to schedule them?

[CCBlackhatter]

If we are going to definitively say the Trinity League duffs are Top 300, then noone here should mind listening to ECHS discuss the Top 30 teams in GA.

Fair enough?

 

[954gator]

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

5-loss StX were still OH State Champions, weren't they? 

And BG and IMG have been the elite of the elite in the last few years. 

If you put both SJB and MD in any league in 2016, then that league would be top heavy.

JSerra were at the very bottom of the Trinity League last season, going 1-4 in league. But they also went 4-2 outside the TL, losing only to Bishop Amat (by a single score) and to Cen10, and beating the likes of Vista Murieta by two scores, which team the GA guys are trying to prop up in another thread.

 

Yes StX were state champs.

yes BG and IMG have been the elite of the elite. 

Yup, putting BG and MD into a league is going to make it more top heavy. 

I agree Jserra's schedule wasn't easy, but what conclusions can you make from it that you could use to compare JSerra to some team from Texas or Fl or Ga that they have no connection to?  They were a solid enough team with the likes of Alemany, Amat etc, but no where near MD, SJB, or CC.

Take a team like 4-6 Miami Norland.  Ranked 800 or so by CP.  They lost to Central, MNW, AHP, Carol City etc etc.   A very tough schedule in itself. How could you compare Norland (ranked 7-800ish) to JSerra (ranked 250ish)?

Should Norland be ranked higher because of their schedule too?  Lost by 2 to Miami Central, by 10 to Carol City.  Never blown out by 40.   There's just no way to say definitively.

 

[954gator]

I also would agree the worst trinity league teams are still solid teams, but so are a bunch of teams that didn't win state in "weak divisions"

JSerra was ranked above 10-2 Armwood.   Maybe yes, maybe no?    No way to tell.

[Sammyswordsman]

3 hours ago, coach_warren said:

 

I know it's easy to get carried away when we're comparing the Trinity League to the IMG's and SJB's of the world, but think of it like this. JSerra the "bottom-feeder" of the league that got destroyed by CC beat Sacramento High School, a school in Norcal 35-7. That school, Sacramento went on a 9 game win streak and was at one point the number 1 team in their county. Sac high was destroying all the surrounding schools in their region and the writers that were covering Sac came away extremely impressed by JSerra and the Trinity League, the fact one of their prized treasures Sacramento lost 35-7 to a last place league. It boggled their minds really and even more I bet a lot of coaches/players around that region thought the same behind closed doors about JSerra and the Trinity league, they came away respecting it. I know Sac high doesn't mean much nationally but to the people in the surrounding county, and people familiar with Norcal football I'm sure it left an impression on them

Trinity League teams often have to travel to Nor Cal or OOS to fill the schedule.  Often Teams up North just want to be able to tell their grandkids they played a TL school.

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

1 hour ago, 954gator said:

I also would agree the worst trinity league teams are still solid teams, but so are a bunch of teams that didn't win state in "weak divisions"

JSerra was ranked above 10-2 Armwood.   Maybe yes, maybe no?    No way to tell.

SJB&MD are the TL. 

Wake up Sammy. 

Its not 2007-2010 anymore. Servite,OLU,SM and Jserra are not that good. 

 

[Mjd33]

Trinity league = 2 Dime pieces and 4 D.U.F.F.'s 

[Sammyswordsman]

11 minutes ago, Mjd33 said:

Trinity league = 2 Dime pieces and 4 D.U.F.F.'s 

Whatever that means?

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

10 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Whatever that means?

In slang terms 

2 dime pieces. 

Good as fuck often used with women. 

4 DUFFS in other words you gotta drink till they look good. 

But by that point you will have circum to Critically  ireversable liver poisining.

In other words. These teams arent good as they used to be.  

 

[Belly Bob]

8 hours ago, 954gator said:

[...]

I agree Jserra's schedule wasn't easy, but what conclusions can you make from it that you could use to compare JSerra to some team from Texas or Fl or Ga that they have no connection to?  They were a solid enough team with the likes of Alemany, Amat etc, but no where near MD, SJB, or CC.

Take a team like 4-6 Miami Norland.  Ranked 800 or so by CP.  They lost to Central, MNW, AHP, Carol City etc etc.   A very tough schedule in itself. How could you compare Norland (ranked 7-800ish) to JSerra (ranked 250ish)?

Should Norland be ranked higher because of their schedule too?  Lost by 2 to Miami Central, by 10 to Carol City.  Never blown out by 40.   There's just no way to say definitively.

Yeah, I agree that it's hard to compare such programs and that we don't really know. 

My thing is that we should be consistent. 

GA guys are telling a story that Vista Murietta is strong team bc they beat a team that beat JSerra and Servite, which both went 1-4 in the Trinity League. 

So which is it: Is JSerra a 250-ish team, or a 7-800ish team? The answer one gives shouldn't depend on whether JSerra is scheduled to play Colquitt. 

[Belly Bob]

8 hours ago, CCBlackhatter said:

If we are going to definitively say the Trinity League duffs are Top 300, then noone here should mind listening to ECHS discuss the Top 30 teams in GA.

Fair enough?

You'd better hope that the Trinity League duffs are top 300 teams.

Otherwise Colquitt scheduled a team on the other side of the country that lost by two scores to team that isn't even in the top 300.

That in itself would be an embarrassment for a program like Colquitt. 

[Omaha Vol]

8 hours ago, CCBlackhatter said:

If we are going to definitively say the Trinity League duffs are Top 300, then noone here should mind listening to ECHS discuss the Top 30 teams in GA.

Fair enough?

 

I don't mind. I enjoy reading about all the teams from other states. Keep it up! 

[Sammyswordsman]

7 hours ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

SJB&MD are the TL. 

Wake up Sammy. 

Its not 2007-2010 anymore. Servite,OLU,SM and Jserra are not that good. 

 

So you made me go fact check this.

Over the past 5 seasons 2012-2016 (100 game Sample set) here are the (non SJB or MD) Trinity League results (non league or playoff)

Wins -77   Loss - 23

Out of the 23 losses, (12) were games against (ELITE Teams)  Bishop Gorman, DLS, Cen10.

Since we never claimed that the bottom 4 TL teams were "Elite" status, and 99.8% of any other HS team would also have lost those games...

This leaves a record of 77 -11 or 87.5% winning %

Mic Drop

#caintTouchThis

#Who'sYourDaddy?

 

 

 

[954gator]

43 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

So which is it: Is JSerra a 250-ish team, or a 7-800ish team? The answer one gives shouldn't depend on whether JSerra is scheduled to play Colquitt. 

Whichever one drives the agenda I'm sure lol.

[Guest LOSer]

14 hours ago, Omaha Vol said:

Of course, you failed to mention that the 3 teams they lost to were Cen10, Rancho Cucamonga, and Mission Viejo. All three were top 100 nationally.

So they get blown out whenever they play a "good" team.

Seems to support my point, not yours.

[Belly Bob]

2 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

So you made me go fact check this.

Over the past 5 seasons 2012-2016 (100 game Sample set) here are the (non SJB or MD) Trinity League results (non league or playoff)

Wins -77   Loss - 23

Out of the 23 losses, (12) were games against (ELITE Teams)  Bishop Gorman, DLS, Cen10.

Since we never claimed that the bottom 4 TL teams were "Elite" status, and 99.8% of any other HS team would also have lost those games...

This leaves a record of 77 -11 or 87.5% winning %

Mic Drop

#caintTouchThis

#Who'sYourDaddy?

Oh please. 

Any four teams chosen at random would have an 87.5 winning % over the last 5 years when adjusted in this way.

Trinity League = SJB and MD.

Wake up, Sammy!

[Guest LOSer]

14 hours ago, Omaha Vol said:

STA wiped out Venice and Plant by 38 and 39, respectively. I would consider both of them to, easily, be in the top 300 (which, btw, is in the top 2% of all teams nationally).

The only thing more predictable than you being a stooge is you changing the subject to STA.

[Guest LOSer]

15 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Canes also neglected to mention that the 3 teams he referred to were 29-1 at game time with the 1 loss being by 1 point to IMG

But you neglected to mention that those teams play in the Big VIII, Baseline and South Coast leagues.

You can't argue on one hand that the bottom of the Trinity League has bad records because they play tough schedules and then turn around and celebrate the amazing records of teams that play in crappy leagues.

You're going to have to stick to one argument, sammy. I know that's hard for your because of the shape-shifter that you are.

[Guest LOSer]

14 hours ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

Do you even realize that what you are saying is in your world you don't actually have to beat anybody good to be considered a good team? You just have to lose (badly) to other good teams.  I believe you are the one failing to see the bigger picture.

It's the OmahaVol way.

Just lose to good teams and then you're a good team.

[Guest LOSer]

14 hours ago, Omaha Vol said:

he others who get thumped by these teams are not bad teams like you are insinuating.

But that's all they have on their resume.

For instance, JSerra lost to Servite by 24.

How in the world can you say that they're a good team?