Utah on the Rise

[old_e]

1 hour ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Exactly. He never answered me, then I texted the REAL DJ, who confirmed he didn't join us. I AM the Wikileaks of hsfb. Reporting REAL news and exposing the frauds! 

I appreciate that GSB. No CNN please. Or the fraud above. 😁

[The Comish]

On July 23, 2017 at 0:26 PM, World Citizen said:

I have reached a decision.  Sammy is innocent and shall be rewarded damages for "the hell of it".  

This ruling may be contested but I warn the counsel to not waste this court's time.  😐

So it has been ruled, So it shall be.

Case dismissed 

-The Comish

[BobbySanchez]

48 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

I hooked them up w Saguaro. They're looking at TX in 2018!!!

East should play some more Calif teams

[Sammyswordsman]

3 minutes ago, BobbySanchez said:

East should play some more Calif teams

Hook em up with the devil

[Wooderson]

5 hours ago, aZjimbo said:

Hamilton went through that hazing issue and Steve belles the head coach has been released. For a long time Chandler could not beat Hamilton and then finally did to win its state title. Since then MP and Chandler have been the 2 top dogs in the big schools division.

While Hamilton has not been as dominant in football they have awesome baseball and softball teams (best in state, ranked nationally).

 

The hazing scandal is the latest (and certainly most dramatic) blow to Hamilton football, but this is not a program that fell off overnight; from 2008 to 2011 they had teams that could line up and trade blows against anyone in the nation, and they were fueled largely off of open enrollment kids from other southeast Valley programs along with transfers.  As neighboring programs saw largely ineffectual coaches getting replaced by hires that could be difference makers it took a lot of wind out of the Huskies' sails; Desert Ridge was an absolute sh-t show prior to 2006, when Jeremy Hathcock descended from the White Mountains, doubled their win total the first year, got them winning playoff games in year two, and once they made it to the 2010 title game their local kids understood they didn't need to head to Hamilton to play for championships.  A similar pattern followed with Norris Vaughan at Mountain Pointe and-to a lesser degree-Angelo Paffumi at Skyline (also, is it a coincidence that four seasons after Desert Vista's surprise appearance in the 2007 title game they won the 2011 title over Hamilton?).  Once those programs began to show their own viability Hamilton no longer could rely on kids from Gilbert, Mesa, or Ahwatukee to fuel their latest title contender.  Meanwhile, their in-district rivals at Chandler-long a viable program in their own right but not able to get over the hump against the 800-pound Husky down the road from them-continued to be loaded with athletes on an annual basis and started emerging into a quarterback factory, first with Kyle Yount in 2008 (a kid that had a Colorado State offer before being unseated by his successor) and followed by Brett Hundley (eventual UCLA starter), Darrell Garretson (started games at Utah State and Oregon State), Bryce Perkins (ASU commit), and now Jacob Conover; this took that program from being merely "viable" to surpassing Chandler as a destination school.  

The hazing scandal will likely be the final nail in the Hamilton coffin but they were a program that had taken a series of step backs in recent years, from missing the semifinals for the first time in 13 years in 2015 to winning less than ten games for the first time as a fully-functioning varsity program (they actually finished in a three-way tie for the league basement).  We may see the program rally in 2017 (interim coach Dick Baniszewski is an experienced head coach and has a Syracuse commit in the backfield, an UNC commit under center, and an ASU commit at one of the tackle spots) the landscape of high school football in their immediate area is vastly different than when they were at their peak.    

[BobbySanchez]

GSB, anything else about East besides they're a rising power? They're located in an area full of inner-city kids and  hotbed for Samoan talent. 

[aZjimbo]

3 hours ago, Wooderson said:

The hazing scandal is the latest (and certainly most dramatic) blow to Hamilton football, but this is not a program that fell off overnight; from 2008 to 2011 they had teams that could line up and trade blows against anyone in the nation, and they were fueled largely off of open enrollment kids from other southeast Valley programs along with transfers.  As neighboring programs saw largely ineffectual coaches getting replaced by hires that could be difference makers it took a lot of wind out of the Huskies' sails; Desert Ridge was an absolute sh-t show prior to 2006, when Jeremy Hathcock descended from the White Mountains, doubled their win total the first year, got them winning playoff games in year two, and once they made it to the 2010 title game their local kids understood they didn't need to head to Hamilton to play for championships.  A similar pattern followed with Norris Vaughan at Mountain Pointe and-to a lesser degree-Angelo Paffumi at Skyline (also, is it a coincidence that four seasons after Desert Vista's surprise appearance in the 2007 title game they won the 2011 title over Hamilton?).  Once those programs began to show their own viability Hamilton no longer could rely on kids from Gilbert, Mesa, or Ahwatukee to fuel their latest title contender.  Meanwhile, their in-district rivals at Chandler-long a viable program in their own right but not able to get over the hump against the 800-pound Husky down the road from them-continued to be loaded with athletes on an annual basis and started emerging into a quarterback factory, first with Kyle Yount in 2008 (a kid that had a Colorado State offer before being unseated by his successor) and followed by Brett Hundley (eventual UCLA starter), Darrell Garretson (started games at Utah State and Oregon State), Bryce Perkins (ASU commit), and now Jacob Conover; this took that program from being merely "viable" to surpassing Chandler as a destination school.  

The hazing scandal will likely be the final nail in the Hamilton coffin but they were a program that had taken a series of step backs in recent years, from missing the semifinals for the first time in 13 years in 2015 to winning less than ten games for the first time as a fully-functioning varsity program (they actually finished in a three-way tie for the league basement).  We may see the program rally in 2017 (interim coach Dick Baniszewski is an experienced head coach and has a Syracuse commit in the backfield, an UNC commit under center, and an ASU commit at one of the tackle spots) the landscape of high school football in their immediate area is vastly different than when they were at their peak.    

These successes teams enjoy also go in cycles. Hamilton was dominant and I've stated many times they could play with any team in the country. And Hamilton could play defense also. Norris Vaughn is an excellent coach and brought huge success to MP. Like I said there are some super athletes still at that school as their dominance has turned to other sports. Will be interesting to see how they move forward from the hazing scandal. 

[World Citizen]

On 7/23/2017 at 8:18 PM, The Comish said:

So it has been ruled, So it shall be.

Case dismissed 

-The Comish

Its rewarding to have the high court agree on a lower court's ruling.  

[Omaha Vol]

Just read through all of these posts. A Utah thread that turned into CA vs GA. First off, Bingham has earned the right to be included in any top 10-20 ranking for western teams. East did last year as well. I think they will again this year. Lone Peak has their moments every so often. 

Second, I am from the southeast and know all to well that GA football is top notch. However, I have had the privilege of living all over the U.S. And have seen teams from all regions of the country. That being said, the Southern Section's Trinity League is very good top bottom. Yes, SJB and MD throttled everyone else in the league, but they would do that 80 of the top 100 teams in the country. Even the worst team in the league is, realistically, a top 300 team nationally. There are no pushovers in that league.

[Sammyswordsman]

2 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

 

Second, I am from the southeast and know all to well that GA football is top notch. However, I have had the privilege of living all over the U.S. And have seen teams from all regions of the country. That being said, the Southern Section's Trinity League is very good top bottom. Yes, SJB and MD throttled everyone else in the league, but they would do that 80 of the top 100 teams in the country. Even the worst team in the league is, realistically, a top 300 team nationally. There are no pushovers in that league.

 

[Guest LOSer]

52 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

Yes, SJB and MD throttled everyone else in the league, but they would do that 80 of the top 100 teams in the country. Even the worst team in the league is, realistically, a top 300 team nationally. There are no pushovers in that league.

Nonsense.

Unrelenting nonsense.

[Omaha Vol]

37 minutes ago, LOSer said:

Nonsense.

Unrelenting nonsense.

Yes, we all know that you think any team that's not a legitimate top 10 team nationally sucks balls. You really need to get over yourself. It's your constant tirades that are unrelenting nonsense. That's what makes you the clown of these boards. 

[Guest LOSer]

22 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

Yes, we all know that you think any team that's not a legitimate top 10 team nationally sucks balls.

The bottom three teams in the Trinity League went 0-3 in the D1 playoffs and lost their games by 31, 20 and 21 points.

 

[Nolebull813]

11 minutes ago, LOSer said:

The bottom three teams in the Trinity League went 0-3 in the D1 playoffs and lost their games by 31, 20 and 21 points.

 

 They benefited by being the ugly sisters to the hot chicks and when it came time to go to the party no one wanted to dance with the fat ugly cows. 😂

[Omaha Vol]

21 minutes ago, LOSer said:

The bottom three teams in the Trinity League went 0-3 in the D1 playoffs and lost their games by 31, 20 and 21 points.

 

Of course, you failed to mention that the 3 teams they lost to were Cen10, Rancho Cucamonga, and Mission Viejo. All three were top 100 nationally. STA wiped out Venice and Plant by 38 and 39, respectively. I would consider both of them to, easily, be in the top 300 (which, btw, is in the top 2% of all teams nationally). Your problem is that you never consider the big picture. 

[Sammyswordsman]

4 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

Of course, you failed to mention that the 3 teams they lost to were Cen10, Rancho Cucamonga, and Mission Viejo. All three were top 100 nationally. STA wiped out Venice and Plant by 38 and 39, respectively. I would consider both of them to, easily, be in the top 300 (which, btw, is in the top 2% of all teams nationally). Your problem is that you never consider the big picture. 

Canes also neglected to mention that the 3 teams he referred to were 29-1 at game time with the 1 loss being by 1 point to IMG

Canes just clowns himself again. 

#sad

15 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

 They benefited by being the ugly sisters to the hot chicks and when it came time to go to the party no one wanted to dance with the fat ugly cows. 😂

#fanboy

[NYHSFAN33]

19 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

Of course, you failed to mention that the 3 teams they lost to were Cen10, Rancho Cucamonga, and Mission Viejo. All three were top 100 nationally. STA wiped out Venice and Plant by 38 and 39, respectively. I would consider both of them to, easily, be in the top 300 (which, btw, is in the top 2% of all teams nationally). Your problem is that you never consider the big picture. 

Do you even realize that what you are saying is in your world you don't actually have to beat anybody good to be considered a good team? You just have to lose (badly) to other good teams.  I believe you are the one failing to see the bigger picture.  I couldn't disageee more with your assessment.  Then again, you also buy in to the DLS hyper improvement theory.

[954gator]

1 hour ago, Omaha Vol said:

Of course, you failed to mention that the 3 teams they lost to were Cen10, Rancho Cucamonga, and Mission Viejo. All three were top 100 nationally. STA wiped out Venice and Plant by 38 and 39, respectively. I would consider both of them to, easily, be in the top 300 (which, btw, is in the top 2% of all teams nationally). You problem is that you never consider the big picture. 

My thing is how could we possibly know?  Yes the trinity league is damn good, but what evidence do we have those bottom teams are better than those teams you mentioned or some random TX playoff teams? This is what we know of the Trinity League last year.  SJB came out on top, and have a slight edge over CC and MD (who you could make an argument for either IMO as #2).   Trinity league is excellent, but last year WAS top heavy at least relatively.   Those top heavy teams didn't necessarily dominate all their big OOS matchups.   I'd say they performed pretty solid,  but nothing so great that I think the bottom teams in their league are that tough.   

SJB split OOS: they beat 5 loss StX soundly.  Lost by 10 to Gorman at home. 

MD played no OOS, but with a split to SJB you can compare them closely (edge to SJB with more convincing win in playoffs)

CC: split OOS:  Beat Chandler in a close game.   Lost to IMG by 1.  Lost to SJB by 2.   

So in a relatively (I say this because you can't deny that at least) top heavy league, the top 2/3 trinity teams split OOS, they did well, but they didn't dominate the world enough to where the bottom teams in the league deserve to ride their coat tails.  You can say the same thing about teams like Plant and Venice.   You can't say they're this good or that good based on the only big game they played they lost soundly, BUT they lost to STA.  That's different IMO to getting smoked by Mission Viejo or Rancho.  That I don't think can be disputed.  

Anyways end of rant.

[Omaha Vol]

14 minutes ago, 954gator said:

My thing is how could we possibly know?  Yes the trinity league is damn good, but what evidence do we have those bottom teams are better than those teams you mentioned or some random TX playoff teams? This is what we know of the Trinity League last year.  SJB came out on top, and have a slight edge over CC and MD (who you could make an argument for either IMO as #2).   Trinity league is deep, but last year WAS top heavy at least relatively.   Those top heavy teams didn't necessarily dominate all their big OOS matchups.   I'd say they performed pretty solid,  but nothing so great that I think the bottom teams in their league are that tough.   

SJB split OOS: they beat 5 loss StX soundly.  Lost by 10 to Gorman at home. 

MD played no OOS, but with a split to SJB you can compare them closely (edge to SJB with more convincing win in playoffs)

CC: split OOS:  Beat Chandler in a close game.   Lost to IMG by 1.  Lost to SJB by 2.   

So in a relatively (I say this because you can't deny that at least) top heavy league, the top 2/3 trinity teams split OOS, they did well, but they didn't dominate the world enough to where the bottom teams in the league deserve to ride their coat tails.  You can say the same thing about teams like Plant and Venice.   You can't say they're this good or that good based on the only big game they played they lost soundly, BUT they lost to STA.  That's different to getting smoked by Mission Viejo or Rancho.  That I don't think can be disputed.

Anyways end of rant.

What do you think the results would be between a trio of games with Plant/Venice against OLu, JSerra, and Servite? 

[Gospeeder]

Simple problem to solve. More OOS games among the middle and lower TL squads with other notable teams from maybe the BNU, GCL or one of the prominent programs in the 305 area code. That would cut through all the BS about the subject. Just saw O Vol's post just pop up so there is no need to elaborate any further.

[954gator]

12 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

What do you think the results would be between a trio of games with Plant/Venice against OLu, JSerra, and Servite? 

Honestly I have no idea, but I'd definitely enjoy watching those games.   What we always get to see are the states top teams playing another's for the most part.   Rarely do we get to see a states #30 vs another's #30.   That's one of the reason's I'm so excited about this next season.   So many Fl teams playing OOS.  Obviously those teams are going to be the underdogs in many, but it'll shed a little more light on a larger range of teams than just the top teams.    Hopefully these trends continue as it seems most states are getting more and more into it.  

[Omaha Vol]

27 minutes ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

Do you even realize that what you are saying is in your world you don't actually have to beat anybody good to be considered a good team? You just have to lose (badly) to other good teams.  I believe you are the one failing to see the bigger picture.  I couldn't disageee more with your assessment.  Then again, you also buy in to the DLS hyper improvement theory.

In my world? Sure, beating quality teams looks better, but just because some team steamrolls everyone on their schedule doesn't mean they're not good. Teams get blown out by the upper echelon teams all the time. We're talking about the top .5% of teams in the country. The others who get thumped by these teams are not bad teams like you are insinuating. I would not call Plant, Venice, OLu, Servite, or JSerra bad teams. If you do, then you're the one living in another world. 

DLS improving throughout the year is not a theory. They've been doing it for the last 30 years. 

[Omaha Vol]

3 minutes ago, 954gator said:

Honestly I have no idea, but I'd definitely enjoy watching those games.   What we always get to see are the states top teams playing another's for the most part.   Rarely do we get to see a states #30 vs another's #30.   That's one of the reason's I'm so excited about this next season.   So many Fl teams playing OOS.  Obviously those teams are going to be the underdogs in many, but it'll shed a little more light on a larger range of teams than just the top teams.    Hopefully these trends continue as it seems most states are getting more and more into it.  

I think those would be interesting and competitive games, honestly. My whole point to what I am saying is that those are all good teams. Not upper echelon, but good (top 2%). All of those OOS games you mentioned for CA were against upper echelon teams (with the exception of St X). All competitive games. 

And, yes, the Trinity League is 2 smoking hot women with some plain Janes. Lol

[954gator]

4 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

 I would not call Plant, Venice, OLu, Servite, or JSerra bad teams

Agree 100%, but I wouldn't have enough evidence to say they would for sure be in the top 300 in the nation based on a big loss.  For example Plant and Venice were undefeated when they played STA.  Neither of them really had a win that could help me determine anything definitively.   Maybe, maybe not.  From what I saw of those games, I think Plant was a decent bit better against STA.   I think I'd say the same about Dwyer, but the numbers are going to put them all about equal, and I'd be hard pressed trying to determine who'd win between them.   Different strengths and weaknesses etc.   Who really knows unless they play or there is more to compare?

[954gator]

3 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

I think those would be interesting and competitive games, honestly. My whole point to what I am saying is that those are all good teams. Not upper echelon, but good (top 2%). All of those OOS games you mentioned for CA were against upper echelon teams (with the exception of St X). All competitive games. 

And, yes, the Trinity League is 2 smoking hot women with some plain Janes. Lol

I agree the losses were to teams that you could say without a doubt were elite.   I think those three were among the high elite last year, but I don't think it can be said in confidence that they were the best of the elite from the results.   I don't have as much of an issue this year, as it seems 2/3 have significantly reloaded and look to have significantly more talent this year than last.   Which is why I don't have a problem with the preseason rankings.