Florida with the skins on the wall

[OldCoach]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:57 PM, Nolebull813 said:

14 DIFFERENT STATES had their state champions chopped down by Florida teams since 2007. Georgia hasn’t even played that many quality teams, and Louisiana has had about 20 state champs killed by OOS teams. 
 

 

2007 Naples beat Connecticut Champ Greenwich

2011 STA beat California Champ DLS

2011 University beat South Carolina Champ Goose Creek

2013 STA beat Louisiana Champ John Curtis

2014 Columbus beat Kentucky Champ Highlands

2014 Miami Central beat Alabama Champ Hoover

2014 Miami Central beat Washington Champ Bothell

2015 Niceville beat Mississippi Champ Bassfield

2016 STA beat Utah Champ Bingham

2017 Miami Central beat Nevada Champ Bishop Gorman

2018 AHP beat New Jersey Champ SJR

2018 Lincoln beat Georgia Champ Bainbridge

2019 Clearwater Academy beat Tennessee Champ McCallie

2019 STA beat Hawaii state champ St Louis 

2021 Chaminade beat Arizona state champ Highlands 

It's an impressive list and thank you for posting.  I notice one thing.  Only 4 of those teams are from outside Miami-Dade and Broward Counties.  And the teams those 4 beat are likely not recognized as powerhouses.  

A substantial amount of Florida's national reputation over the past few decades has been built upon the backs of teams from Miami-Dade and Broward Counties.  Without them, FL would have had a rather limited number of teams capable of consistently competing with the better teams around the country, ie Armwood, Lakeland, Bolles, Cocoa.  Everyone in FL owes a lot to St Thomas and the other South FL teams to give them something to crow about.

I'd imagine some other states experience something similar, ie without the LA teams would CA have that much to crow about?

 

 

 

  

[RedZone]

2 hours ago, OldCoach said:

Everyone in FL owes a lot to St Thomas and the other South FL teams to give them something to crow about.

...blockhead813 (aka nolebull813) owes his LIFE, he's from Tampa and has been riding South Florida like a nasty whore in heat for YEARS. Without South Florida he's a freaky midget.

[Nolebull813]

7 minutes ago, RedZone said:

...blockhead813 (aka nolebull813) owes his LIFE, he's from Tampa and has been riding South Florida like a nasty whore in heat for YEARS. Without South Florida he's a freaky midget.

Says the guy who dry humps every and any team from Louisiana. From Monroe to Lafayette. From Shreveport to Baton Rouge. You are like a kid with an attention deficit disorder begging people to listen to you about these irrelevant teams. Lmao!!

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

Florida needs 5 classes max. 

This is silly.

[OldCoach]

1 hour ago, RedZone said:

...blockhead813 (aka nolebull813) owes his LIFE, he's from Tampa and has been riding South Florida like a nasty whore in heat for YEARS. Without South Florida he's a freaky midget.

Unless I am mistaken, Jesuit was the first team from the Tampa area to win a FL state title in the past 10 years or so.

[Las Vegas_JC]

Gorman is 13-10 vs State Champions since 2000. Pending the 2021 Hawaii Open game. And including 4 losses to teams with a claim to a MNC. (2010 DLS, 2014 BTW, 2017 MD, 2018 MD) And the loss to 2011 Armwood even though it technically is a FFW for the Gaels. 

[The Colonel]

3 hours ago, OldCoach said:

I'd imagine some other states experience something similar, ie without the LA teams would CA have that much to crow about?  

Yes. Outside of LA, CA could “crow about” Mater Dei and Servite from Orange County, Centennial from the Inland Empire, and De La Salle from Nor Cal…just to name a few programs.

[badrouter]

6 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

They still won state. Even though it’s a watered down one it’s still a title. Florida’s playoff system is the laughingstock of the country. We are up there with New Jersey, Tennessee and Louisiana with having way too many classes for how many teams we have. Florida needs 5 classes max. Miami Central still would have won in that scenario as well. They were pretty dominant. 
 

Central falls to STA, and I think Jesuit as well. Gibbons seemed to have a knack for winning games as well. Trigger warning: I think Venice might beat them, too. So, it depends on what their class would look like.

[Atticus Finch]

Nolebull813 tends to say silly things.

The idea that the Florida playoffs are the laughingstock of the country is totally ridiculous.

[Nolebull813]

1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said:

Nolebull813 tends to say silly things.

The idea that the Florida playoffs are the laughingstock of the country is totally ridiculous.

Merritt Island vs Sebring in a STATE SEMI FINAL is a travesty. It’s a black eye. If you don’t want to go to 5 classes, at least concede we need to cut at least one class maybe 2. 

[Atticus Finch]

1 hour ago, Nolebull813 said:

Merritt Island vs Sebring in a STATE SEMI FINAL is a travesty.

It happened naturally.

There's nothing that can be done about it.

[Atticus Finch]

1 hour ago, Nolebull813 said:

It’s a black eye. If you don’t want to go to 5 classes, at least concede we need to cut at least one class maybe 2. 

What you want is of no consequence. Unless you can convince a majority of the schools/ADs then there will be 8 classes.

Period.

[Nolebull813]

2 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

It happened naturally.

There's nothing that can be done about it.

It would have never happened if there was only 5 or 6 classes. The playoff games would be much more competitive. There would be less wasted blowouts. 
 

And I wouldn’t have confidence that coaches and ADs are gonna make it harder to win titles. That’s pretty doubtful but it doesn’t take away from the fact that it’s badly needed 

[Atticus Finch]

7 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

It would have never happened if there was only 5 or 6 classes.

You have no way of knowing this.

There is a soft zone in North Florida from about 1,000 to 1,800 enrollment.

That can't be fixed by just reducing a few classes.

[Atticus Finch]

8 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

The playoff games would be much more competitive. There would be less wasted blowouts. 

The state reseeded the semifinals this year and we still had two running clocks in the state championships and another game that was one play away.

The actions taken to make games more competitive never work.

[Atticus Finch]

10 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

And I wouldn’t have confidence that coaches and ADs are gonna make it harder to win titles. That’s pretty doubtful but it doesn’t take away from the fact that it’s badly needed 

But this is all that matters.

You're not getting rid of 1A or 2A. Full stop. So you'd have to convince 3A to 8A to reduce from 6 to 5 or less.

Not happening right now.

[Atticus Finch]

The last time Florida had 6 classes (2002) Crestview and Wharton made the state finals.

There are always going to be teams that make a run that you don't think should be there.

[Nolebull813]

21 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

The last time Florida had 6 classes (2002) Crestview and Wharton made the state finals.

There are always going to be teams that make a run that you don't think should be there.

Can’t speak for Crestview but we deserved to be there! That was my senior year. We were monsters from cross Fletcher Ave!!! All the kids from Copeland Park were the core. Studs everywhere. College hall of fame coach. 

[dntn31]

8 hours ago, badrouter said:

Central falls to STA, and I think Jesuit as well. Gibbons seemed to have a knack for winning games as well. Trigger warning: I think Venice might beat them, too. So, it depends on what their class would look like.

 

38 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

You have no way of knowing this.

 

It seems you guys are dancing around nole's point (or at least the spirit of it). Relying on hypotheticals wouldn't be necessary if the best teams in FL were forced to play each other.

[Atticus Finch]

22 minutes ago, dntn31 said:

It seems you guys are dancing around nole's point (or at least the spirit of it). Relying on hypotheticals wouldn't be necessary if the best teams in FL were forced to play each other.

Manually manipulating matchups to make them come right is by far the worst system in the country and it's apparent everywhere it's tried.

Open divisions are profoundly stupid and the negative effects of them cascade down to the other classifications.

Having Merritt Island make a Cinderella run is much more preferable to having only one class that matters and furthering watering down the others.

[badrouter]

1 hour ago, dntn31 said:

 

 

It seems you guys are dancing around nole's point (or at least the spirit of it). Relying on hypotheticals wouldn't be necessary if the best teams in FL were forced to play each other.

I tend to agree here. Point is, not having this arrangement is something that disfavors Florida teams in computer rankings. (I assume that's the thread I'm in at the moment lol.)

[badrouter]

1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said:

Manually manipulating matchups to make them come right is by far the worst system in the country and it's apparent everywhere it's tried.

Open divisions are profoundly stupid and the negative effects of them cascade down to the other classifications.

Having Merritt Island make a Cinderella run is much more preferable to having only one class that matters and furthering watering down the others.

Fair points here. But, the follow-up is to say that the Merritt Islands should have to go through a larger sampling of stronger opponents. Clearwater was by far the most talented team on their side of the bracket, only due to dilution of teams.

So, avoiding a so-called "open" or "elite" class may be the best option. But, having fewer classes is a way to get the top teams a bit more concentrated so a "Cinderella" run means a bit more than it did for MI. 

[Nolebull813]

3 minutes ago, badrouter said:

Fair points here. But, the follow-up is to say that the Merritt Islands should have to go through a larger sampling of stronger opponents. Clearwater was by far the most talented team on their side of the bracket, only due to dilution of teams.

So, avoiding a so-called "open" or "elite" class may be the best option. But, having fewer classes is a way to get the top teams a bit more concentrated so a "Cinderella" run means a bit more than it did for MI. 

And the fact that MI was the 1 seed and Miami Central was the 2 seed proves that little tweak should be thrown in the toilet 

[Atticus Finch]

7 minutes ago, badrouter said:

So, avoiding a so-called "open" or "elite" class may be the best option. But, having fewer classes is a way to get the top teams a bit more concentrated so a "Cinderella" run means a bit more than it did for MI. 

Having fewer classes is a pipe dream that is only talked about on message boards like this.

There's no desire for it among a majority of the schools.

[Atticus Finch]

4 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

And the fact that MI was the 1 seed and Miami Central was the 2 seed proves that little tweak should be thrown in the toilet 

The RPI was not the tweak. The reseeding in the semifinals was.

Central and Merritt Island would've been on different sides of the bracket even without the reseeding taking place.