Serra 24, DLS 21 Final

[Atticus Finch]

22 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

2011

Scuffled badly in 2 of the first 3.  Survived a missed PAT vs a very good Bells team in opener and then pissed their pants vs STA in FL a couple of weeks later.  This year's scuffling could be more attributable to injuries/ etc than others as their star/ Elite 11 QB was injured at the Elite 11 camp and really could not throw the ball as well as he did prior 2 years for first month of that season, their #1 RB/ WSU commit was injured and missed almost whole year, and their #2 RB (sophomore all-state DB) was dismissed from team and left school, and their #3 RB got hurt in 1st half of game.  I'm not trying to take away STA's win -- they deserved it, but DLS did not give them their best shot as they were dealing with typical early issues.  This team figured it out, rolled thru NCS including and dominated Socal #1/ national top 5 Westlatke 35-0 in SBG.

Didn't scuffle.

Lost to best program in country at the time and then almost lost to other best NorCal team. Steamrolled everyone else after (and in-between).

[Atticus Finch]

24 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

2012 (Lad's last year as HC)

Team trailed a Mullen team that wound up 6-5 in CO at half and barely bested a decent St Mary's team in their first 3 games.  At end of year, they rolled a very good CC team by 20 in SBG.

Again, not scuffle. Just overrated.

[PopsNW]

3 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

Bold claim to make that De La Salle weren't favorites against Bellevue or Clovis West (twice).

That's fair, as they were almost surely favorites beforehand.  

However, with 20/20 hindsight, I think most DLS guys would say that both Bellevue and THAT 12-2 Clovis West Central Section champ team that lost to CC by 3 were both probably better than DLS.  Maybe, maybe not and again, your point is fair.  

Canyon, as far as I know, is the one late opponent they lost to that I think most of the guys involved afterward felt was more their fault than Canyon being a better team.

Again, I get your point and trust you won't acknowledge my distinction.

[Ga96]

Looks like outside of the 2 recruited all star teams its a huge down year for cali ball.

[Atticus Finch]

21 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

Just for sake of discussion, I won't defend pre-SBG late quality of comp, but that was only '04 and '05 in by comparison above and it's still relevant for the common opponent "hyper-improvement."

The quality of late season competition was the same post-SBG except for the one game at the end.

And even then, the early SBGs featured weaker opposition than the last 6-7 years. They either got favorable matchups against Centennial or laughably weak teams like Westlake getting picked from weak brackets.

[Atticus Finch]

23 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

Once SBGs started, you're just sort of being a dick.  They played SoCal's best every year (or arguably so) and that qualifies as a quality opponent for anyone on here except you.

This is a purposeful dodge which is your go-to.

They were handpicked teams that may or may *not* have actually been the best. But what we do know is that they early on they skewed either good matchup for DLS (Centennial) or no-name slappy material (Canyon, Crenshaw, Westlake). Later on they either got Mater Dei or St. John Bosco and the hyper-improvement theory started to fade from discussion.

[PopsNW]

1 minute ago, Atticus Finch said:

Again, not scuffle. Just overrated.

That team beat a very good, undefeated CC team by 20 in SBG and won both computer polls and ESPN MNC.  That team also beat a 12-1 team 52-7 in NCS Championship and won the first undefeated top 25 DLS-Folsom game 49-15.

I'm going to stick with scuffling when referring to their close early games vs teams outside the top 100.

[PopsNW]

5 minutes ago, Ga96 said:

Looks like outside of the 2 recruited all star teams its a huge down year for cali ball.

Mostly fair, however

• those 2 teams are would be by far the best 2 teams in any state
• as much as I agree with you, to my chagrin, regarding their description, they ain't the only ones playing that game.  The Allen coach basically whined about playing kids that didn't grow up in the community and the Dallas Herald pointed out that they've had 75 transfers/ 30 from out of state in last 5 years.  Just don't throw stones from a glass house as it seems there was a recruiting season even in GA last I checked

I think you can much more credibly attack the Pac12 than CA hsfb after last weekend.  FL pulling it out against Utah hurt -- I think we could live with getting our asses kicked by the Bulldogs -- they'll do that a lot this year

[Atticus Finch]

22 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

This isn't accurate.

It objectively is.

[Atticus Finch]

22 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

I've well documented that DLS often struggles early against whoever they're playing in 1st 3 games.

Bullshit.

80% of their pre-league intrastate games were blowouts. They on rare occasions struggled with the other best NorCal programs at the time (Serra, Bellarmine, etc.)

[PopsNW]

6 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

This is a purposeful dodge which is your go-to.

They were handpicked teams that may or may *not* have actually been the best. But what we do know is that they early on they skewed either good matchup for DLS (Centennial) or no-name slappy material (Canyon, Crenshaw, Westlake). Later on they either got Mater Dei or St. John Bosco and the hyper-improvement theory started to fade from discussion.

I think this is you being unreasonable.  You think everyone not as good as STA sucks, which isn't a fair comparison as you guys have been MD/ SJB'ing a lot longer than them.  

In every instance, DLS played the team that SoCal selected as their best team.  A couple of choices could have been debatable, but none were clearly incorrect (you can't make a definitive case for anyone being better than Crenshaw, Service, or Canyon those years and would probably agree with the other ones.

I'm just shaking my head a bit about the "CC is a perfect match-up" theory.  They were dominating SoCal (clearly were the most dominant program until SJB/ MD changed their approach).  Maybe it was a good match-up, but that seems esoteric compared to the fact that they were just damned good teams.

[Atticus Finch]

26 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

Usually, since '07 or so, one or two of those teams is on par with who they might play in an SBG and they're much more likely to struggle vs them than anyone late

Huh?

I can't even decipher what this means.

Are you trying to say that Serra or Bellarmine might have been on par with Centennial, Mater Dei, St. John Bosco?

[PopsNW]

1 minute ago, Atticus Finch said:

Bullshit.

80% of their pre-league intrastate games were blowouts. They on rare occasions struggled with the other best NorCal programs at the time (Serra, Bellarmine, etc.)

This is factually very wrong -- all of my examples above were from 1st 3 games.  I listed more than 50% of those games.  And, you would have a hard time finding any games where they struggled late during that same period.  

Your head is in the sand on this because you've never been wrong about anything in your mind.

[Cossacks]

[PopsNW]

1 minute ago, Atticus Finch said:

Huh?

I can't even decipher what this means.

Are you trying to say that Serra or Bellarmine might have been on par with Centennial, Mater Dei, St. John Bosco?

Well, let's take MD/ SJB out of the discussion.  SJB didn't announce their new selves until 2013, the year after Lad retired and the point of discussion was showing Lad struggled early also.  MD started evolving in '14 and were there in '15.

I am saying that DBPx2, Lakeland, MV '04/'05, STA, and yes, Bellarmine in '11 (that team lost a great D1 SBG to Trinity champs on final drive) were comparable, some better, some not quite as good, but nationally elite teams.  Wouldn't include any Serra team, Mullen, St Mary's, Loyola, Elder etc -- they're all at least a notch below that level.

[PopsNW]

15 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

It objectively is.

what?  you need to leave a bit more content in what you paste when you want to make 10 posts instead of 1

[I AM IRONMAN]

2 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

what?  you need to leave a bit more content in what you paste when you want to make 10 posts instead of 1

Don’t waste your time with him….he’s still butt hurt from losing twice to DBP!

[PopsNW]

1 minute ago, I AM IRONMAN said:

Don’t waste your time with him….he’s still butt hurt from losing twice to DBP!

It's sort of like playing catch with a dog -- it's not really going anywhere, but I'm having fun watching him wear himself out

[concrete17]

On 9/3/2022 at 11:59 AM, PopsNW said:

WA is great.  Don't follow the local ball that much -- I'm fairly remote myself (is a 1 hour ferry to mainland) so don't get to any games.  Wasn't even aware DLS was playing last night until a buddy texted me during the game.

Yeah, seems DLS has become TE HS.  I think they were a better team when they were LB HS 😅

If you ever get to the exact opposite corner of the country, give me a call -- we've got a couple of airbnbs on the farm.  Good crabbing (Dungeness) right off our property and great shrimping (spot prawns) about 15 minutes away -- I do have a shrimp boat named Jenny (told my wife it was named after her, but really was a tribute to Forest Gump).  

Good One .......at least you didn't name it "Blue" after Forrest's partner Bubba

[Atticus Finch]

5 hours ago, PopsNW said:

I've sort of conceded your point that I won't use NCS Championship wins as proof of late season pistons humming, but again, use common opponent:

I already showed that in rematches DLS actually won by less in the second game than they did in the first. There's basically no proof of the hyper-improvement theory.

[Atticus Finch]

5 hours ago, PopsNW said:

That's fair, as they were almost surely favorites beforehand.  

That's actually how odds work.

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, PopsNW said:

That team beat a very good, undefeated CC team by 20 in SBG and won both computer polls and ESPN MNC.

So they were overrated just as I said.

Nobody who struggles to beat a 6-5 Mullen team is national championship caliber. But De La Salle got all the benefits of the doubt due to their brand.

We just got done talking about how the 2006 team would've won a national championship if not for the SBG.

[Atticus Finch]

5 hours ago, PopsNW said:

I'm going to stick with scuffling when referring to their close early games vs teams outside the top 100.

You have every right to be deluded. You always start from the point of De La Salle being special and awesome. Then you make everything else align with that pre-supposition. 

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, PopsNW said:

I think this is you being unreasonable.  You think everyone not as good as STA sucks, which isn't a fair comparison as you guys have been MD/ SJB'ing a lot longer than them.  

I'm not holding De La Salle to an unreasonable standard. Thinking that every De La Salle team is top 100 (or in your case *better* than that) is what's unreasonable.

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, PopsNW said:

I'm just shaking my head a bit about the "CC is a perfect match-up" theory.  They were dominating SoCal (clearly were the most dominant program until SJB/ MD changed their approach).  Maybe it was a good match-up, but that seems esoteric compared to the fact that they were just damned good teams.

So you're shaking your head at the "Centennial is perfect matchup" claim and then you concede that, yeah, maybe they were.

Centennial deserved to be there every time they were selected.

And De La Salle was ecstatic at their selection.