Serra 24, DLS 21 Final

[Belly Bob]

29 minutes ago, 15yds4gibberish said:

It may have hurt  in two ways.  DLS obviously misses him on the field, but I also kinda got the sense Alapati knew where he needed to be on that last int...perhaps because of his time in the DLS system.  Don't get me wrong, the throw was errant, and I think Serra would've eventually won w/out that Int.  It just speeded up the process and put an ironic twist on the end. 

I agree. He seemed to know where to be all game. 

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, 15yds4gibberish said:

The DLS QB question is the classic more accurate passer, but doesn't run the veer well vs. the better veer but isn't as good on his throws dilemma.  I lean toward the Soph.  I agree with @ThunderRam, they really miss Eidson.  Thought so last year too.

I agree with you.  It's a mess.

I lean toward to the sophomore too because DLS's offense looks better when they run veer well. That may sound obvious, but DLS has been trying to do something other than run the veer well lately. 

Whatever virtues the junior may have as a passer, DLS's passing game still looks unnatural to me. I think Su'esu'e threw one nice ball to Flanagan early in the game. That was it for the first half. He connected again with Flanagan, but it was for about 3 yards. He threw to Flanagan two other times. One was almost picked. The other sailed way over his head. Did he throw to another receiver?

And when no one was open, he held the ball way too long. He took a sack for a huge loss. He then almost took another huge sack, but threw it away as he was being dragged to the ground. He was bailed out twice on 4th down on penalties. Part of the problem seems to be that DLS can't pass block. The passing game just doesn't look good -- again.

And what does DLS do with a 6'4" athlete whom I'm told has a good arm but who can't run the veer? DLS's offense makes it difficult to take advantage of talent at certain positions. Zeke Berry (2022) was their best player last year and the year before it, but they couldn't figure out how to use him on offense, because he was naturally a receiver. 

[Belly Bob]

3 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

Yep. 

DLS made some nice defensive plays, no doubt, but some better play calling and execution by Serra could have had them up multiple scores instead of down multiple scores.

They controlled the game for the most part.

I read on another thread somewhere that Serra was minus two starting tackles? Is that correct??

If so, their performance is even more impressive.

Yes, they dominated that game without either of their starting tackles. 

They made 7 trips to the red zone and came away with only 24 points, and they didn't punt the ball until halfway through the 3Q.

[badrouter]

8 hours ago, steeler01 said:

No....... what kid gets to improve for the next level in that system?

They should be recruiting QBs that fit their system. That means players who won't play QB at the next level. They can use fast kids and coach them to throw a few simpler routes (RPO, WR screens etc). DLS can't win by doing the exact same thing MD, SJB etc do. They'll never bring anywhere near that level of talent. They have to be different. In the 7v7 era, defenders don't want to play a team that pounds the ball all game. 

You don't need a great passing QB to win...at ANY level. It's just that the pure running QBs are terribly unpopular to the general public, which in turn means the pros can't use such systems, which then means colleges can't either. At the H.S. level, especially a proud program like DLS, they aren't held hostage by the whims of the basic general public. They can just do whatever it is that helps them win.

[steeler01]

1 minute ago, badrouter said:

They should be recruiting QBs that fit their system. That means players who won't play QB at the next level. They can use fast kids and coach them to throw a few simpler routes (RPO, WR screens etc). DLS can't win by doing the exact same thing MD, SJB etc do. They'll never bring anywhere near that level of talent. They have to be different. In the 7v7 era, defenders don't want to play a team that pounds the ball all game. 

They have plenty of those guys already that they can do that with

1 minute ago, badrouter said:

You don't need a great passing QB to win...at ANY level. It's just that the pure running QBs are terribly unpopular to the general public, which in turn means the pros can't use such systems, which then means colleges can't either. At the H.S. level, especially a proud program like DLS, they aren't held hostage by the whims of the basic general public. They can just do whatever it is that helps them win.

No,  but you need superior line play in that scenario.

[CaliNorth]

3 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

As an outside observer, the biggest difference I’m noticing the past couple seasons is vulnerability on defense. 

Their veer offense has had its ups and downs over the years, but the defense has typically been elite. Even w/o the elite athletes. 

They still would beat all comers in NorCal because their defense was so fundamentally sound and physical. They’ve lost some of that since Eidson left.

2018 and 2019 , DLS was a top 10 team in country . Offense was great in 2019 , a true duel  threat . Then came the pandemic . I think the coaches got use to putting in short days of practices and it showed last season .   alumbaugh just does the same game plan . It showed vs Folsom in the playoff game . He just cookie cuttered the same plan as they did earlier vs Folsom. Folsom changed everything up . To me , I could be wrong , but it seems a bit lazy. His teams almost always are very mistake prone compared to a Lad team . This years team could very well at the end , actually be the best in Ncal , but they could have 2 losses before they ever get there . Serra is way better coached and conditioned at this juncture . What have the Spartans been doing this summer to be this far behind ? They look lost on offense and defense . To me it rests on his coaching staff .

[15yds4gibberish]

3 hours ago, steeler01 said:

They have plenty of those guys already that they can do that with

No,  but you need superior line play in that scenario.

I like Thompson and I suspect he's going to Harvard because it's Harvard, but overall last night this line didn't show the get-off we are used to seeing.  Without that, the veer don't go.

It's a bit of a dilemma.  If you take all the best lineman from the East Bay, they still don't have the size and athleticism of the lines MD and SJB are putting together now, so you need something like the veer to have a chance to neutralize some of the difference (as it is the best D lines have it pretty well figured out anyway).  At the same time, I personally think you also need a D1 QB to have a chance against the southern powers...but those QB's aren't interested in running the veer...be interested in the hot-takes on this.

One of the old nor cal dogs will have to confirm or deny, but I thought way back in the early days of Walsh at the helm, Serra used to run the veer.  They transitioned away and are a lot more varied now.  They seem to have no problem attracting nice QB's -- Although they still can't compete with the Southern powers yet... 

[golfaddict1]

… nodded off on the couch 21-14 DLS.  Woke up about 5 min after the game finished, rewound back and 😯. 
 

Never heard of a DLS transfer (and at that level of play) after junior season.  Then to make the clutch play to setup the game winning FG, wow.   Anybody have this on their bingo card?  
 

DLS D was holding strong in the deep end a few times.  This sure looked like a DLS close win type of game until a player who likely knew the play call and reacted instantly made a ⭐️ pick.  The ball was under thrown and he was still there.  

[Cal 14]

2 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

I don't disagree, and I don't want to put words into @HurricaneNick's mouth, but despite Serra's dominance, DLS was up two scores going into the 4th.

They had put together back-to-back scoring drives in the 3Q and forced to Serra to punt for the first time. It was their game to lose at that point.

Maybe a better coached team holds on and gets away with a win.

A better team is a better team.  Serra scored 17 unanswered points.  The only reason why DLS was up was because Serra put them in that position. 

I wouldn't count a long run by the QB as a "scoring drive".  A run popped in that case.

There are games that are legitimately toss-ups.  There are times where the better team doesn't win.  There are also times where one team is clearly better than the other.  In this last case, there is only so much even a good coach can do.

Serra was clearly better.

[golfaddict1]

11 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

They beat them at home without either of their starting tackles.

DLS isn't the best team in NorCal anymore. 

Is that why 85 was playing both ways?  
 

One play stood out to me… when Serra had first and goal and looked to be in a Wing-T formation with a rollout play call?  Why be fancy there?  Just odd and I know it’s easy to second guess after the result.   

[PopsNW]

12 hours ago, THEOC89 said:

Sorry Guys, Late to the Party!… Alapati lives near Serra and They Decided they didn’t want to commute to DLS anymore so he transferred to Serra….

I can't imagine where "near Serra" is that he was commuting to DLS from -- he was either crossing a bridge before or now and either seems crazy and unheard of.  Hayward?

[PopsNW]

12 hours ago, HurricaneNick said:

Serra’s coach went to De La? Hmmmm. 
 

Alumbaugh loses another that he shouldn’t have. 

Serra's coach held the DLS rushing record from '92 thru the MJD era -- was broken by Terrance Ward in '09.  He was 4 years ahead of Alumbaugh and captain of the first streak team.

Trivia -- Serra should have ended the NorCal streak in '08, but allowed DLS to get 2 TDs in final 3 minutes to line up for the tying PAT to make it 28-28.  Ward "fumbled" the snap and ran it in for 2 points and 29-28 escape.

[PopsNW]

12 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

They beat them at home without either of their starting tackles.

DLS isn't the best team in NorCal anymore. 

1-2 in the last 3 Normal games after not losing for 30 years.  And the win appeared to be unimpressive from score and opponent.

DLS often barely survived early non-league NorCal games and then improved more than most between pre-season and post-season.  This team is going to be embarrassed, mentally down, and hopefully a bit pissed.  They definitely are not the top team in NorCal now -- would have to put them behind Serra and Folsom at least, but they have an opportunity to gain that back.  That's sometimes a more fun team to root for than a juggernaut (is why the movie decided to base itself on the '04 season where they started 1-3-1)

[CaliNorth]

35 minutes ago, Cal 14 said:

A better team is a better team.  Serra scored 17 unanswered points.  The only reason why DLS was up was because Serra put them in that position. 

I wouldn't count a long run by the QB as a "scoring drive".  A run popped in that case.

There are games that are legitimately toss-ups.  There are times where the better team doesn't win.  There are also times where one team is clearly better than the other.  In this last case, there is only so much even a good coach can do.

Serra was clearly better.

Serra was clearly better prepared and further along with their schemes . Once Dls can iron out a lot of things, like who is the qb, db's and lb learning their prevent zone etc., getting in game conditioning , I wouldn't go so far as saying serra better . Maybe last night, 2nd game of season . Even then, DLS should've won the game, or at least been tied . A debacle all the way around for spartans . 2nd play of game they gifted Serra a td. Greer dropping that wide open misdirection pass in 4th was the game right there. Greer had a 35-40 yd gain min right in front of him, with a 7 pt lead with 6 min left . Those kind of plays are just killers

[PopsNW]

12 hours ago, HurricaneNick said:

@THEOC89While I completely agree that not getting the players they normally would have gotten under Lad is a huge problem, I think there at least needs to be discussion that JA is not the guy (for the football job), he may, and I’m sure he does align faithfully and morally with everything DLS represents, but at the end of the day you guys are De La Salle. A brand. JA is by no means a bad coach, but the drop off from Lad has been substantial. 12 on the field to make the chip shot to win even easier? NEVER under Lad. I did see Terron ward is on the staff, hopefully he can get some studs to come in. Kids still want to go to De La Salle, if they had the head man to match the brand…. Could get scary.

I don't think saying JA isn't Lad is unfair, but comparing anyone to Lad, arguably the greatest hsfb ever, will produce much the same gap.  Name all the great coaches that followed Wooden, Bear Bryant, etc..... it's hard to not pale in comparison.

JA knows what he's doing.  As mentioned, DLS is lacking the horses they had from '09-'15, much less the late streak talent that produced most players in NFL.  This was a sloppy game that was lost.  Lad had a lot of early sloppy games he just didn't lose (within Norcal)

[steeler01]

2 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

I don't think saying JA isn't Lad is unfair, but comparing anyone to Lad, arguably the greatest hsfb ever, will produce much the same gap.  Name all the great coaches that followed Wooden, Bear Bryant, etc..... it's hard to not pale in comparison.

JA knows what he's doing.  As mentioned, DLS is lacking the horses they had from '09-'15, much less the late streak talent that produced most players in NFL.  This was a sloppy game that was lost.  Lad had a lot of early sloppy games he just didn't lose (within Norcal)

I want to see Serra get those NFL type players that DLS used to get. 

 

I've always liked watching Serra play but they just haven't had the talent to beat the better teams but they're really well coached

[PopsNW]

11 hours ago, Extremely Humble said:

When was the last time DLS had a stud QB? Hale and Sweeney were good players but not D1 guys. It’s pretty wild that the most famous high school football team ever can’t seem to get a dominant QB. I know the DLS offense isn’t qb friendly but just their name brand alone should be bringing in better talent. 

Bart Houston started all 3 years from '09-'11 and played for Wisconsin (beat LSU in a bowl game).  They had 2 or 3 other D1 guys (1 briefly NFL) in the decade prior to Bart as well.

[THEOC89]

20 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

I can't imagine where "near Serra" is that he was commuting to DLS from -- he was either crossing a bridge before or now and either seems crazy and unheard of.  Hayward?

San Mateo…. They also stated this on the TV Broadcast….

He was a tough loss for DLS, he was their best player on Defense last year next to Zeke Berry….

[PopsNW]

2 minutes ago, steeler01 said:

I want to see Serra get those NFL type players that DLS used to get. 

 

I've always liked watching Serra play but they just haven't had the talent to beat the better teams but they're really well coached

I've always liked Serra -- my kids were going to go to Serra until we moved them a few years prior to hs.

My respect for them grew significantly in '13 when they eagerly took the balance of the 4-year agreement with DLS from their league-mate Bellarmine, after DLS opened 2012 with a 51-7 (?) win over the Bells, who basically said "No Mas".

Walsh really wanted to be the guy that ended the NorCal streak -- he was just 2 games late, but appreciated every prior opportunity.

I think Serra has a pretty large Poly community that he seems to have established a pipeline into.

[PopsNW]

Just now, THEOC89 said:

San Mateo…. They also stated this on the TV Broadcast….

He was a tough loss for DLS, he was their best player on Defense last year next to Zeke Berry….

He commuted to DLS from San Mateo????!!!  That's crazy -- have never heard of anyone coming from the Peninsula.  That must be a 90 minute 1-way commute on a good day.

[steeler01]

2 minutes ago, THEOC89 said:

San Mateo…. They also stated this on the TV Broadcast….

He was a tough loss for DLS, he was their best player on Defense last year next to Zeke Berry….

Man, talk about a trek

[PopsNW]

1 hour ago, golfaddict1 said:

… nodded off on the couch 21-14 DLS.  Woke up about 5 min after the game finished, rewound back and 😯. 
 

Never heard of a DLS transfer (and at that level of play) after junior season.  Then to make the clutch play to setup the game winning FG, wow.   Anybody have this on their bingo card?  
 

DLS D was holding strong in the deep end a few times.  This sure looked like a DLS close win type of game until a player who likely knew the play call and reacted instantly made a ⭐️ pick.  The ball was under thrown and he was still there.  

I can name several very good players that left DLS prior to their junior or senior season -- sometimes for team rules (Marshal-Cotton, who was a sophomore all-state), sometimes for PT (Nick Montana who transferred after not winning job in camp junior year), and maybe for better commutes?  Someone with less dementia than me will remember the very good player that just switched to Monte Vista for senior year in '16 or '17.

[old_e]

They need to go with what made them successful.  They need to perfect the veer and take the occasional pass to the tightend to keep the defense honest. Man, last week's game was close and now they lose. 

[PopsNW]

2 hours ago, 15yds4gibberish said:

I like Thompson and I suspect he's going to Harvard because it's Harvard, but overall last night this line didn't show the get-off we are used to seeing.  Without that, the veer don't go.

It's a bit of a dilemma.  If you take all the best lineman from the East Bay, they still don't have the size and athleticism of the lines MD and SJB are putting together now, so you need something like the veer to have a chance to neutralize some of the difference (as it is the best D lines have it pretty well figured out now).  At the same time, I personally think you also need a D1 QB to have a chance against the southern powers...but those QB's aren't interested in running the veer...be interested in the hot-takes on this.

One of the old nor cal dogs will have to confirm or deny, but I thought way back in the early days of Walsh at the helm, Serra used to run the veer.  They transitioned away and are a lot more varied now.  They seem to have no problem attracting nice QB's -- Although they still can't compete with the Southern powers yet... 

My hot take

DLS ought not abandon the veer.  As you pointed out, loading the roster with massive prototypical D1 linemen isn't an option and DLS has proved as much as any team in the country that it's not the size of the dog in the fight.....   Their veer works when it's well executed by athletes.  Last night lacked execution (that was fairly normal early) but also probably some athletes vs most of the last 30 or so years.

I don't know if Serra used to run the veer (makes sense that they did), but I do think that your example of Serra would be a good model for DLS to follow.  If DLS wants to regain their NorCal top-dog status and/ or have any chance of being competitive with the beasts down south, they have to be 2 dimensional.  To be 2 dimensional, you have to have an athlete that can throw.  I don't know when "dual threat" became a separate category for QBs in recruiting circles, but they can build an offense utilizing the veer that still allows a dual threat guy to showcase skills (and it still is, for the time being, DLS, which gets ESPNU games every year still).

I don't want DLS to chase MD, SJB et al in their approach, but I wouldn't object if they did more to ensure there was a qualified QB on campus most years.

[golfaddict1]

12 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

I can name several very good players that left DLS prior to their junior or senior season -- sometimes for team rules (Marshal-Cotton, who was a sophomore all-state), sometimes for PT (Nick Montana who transferred after not winning job in camp junior year), and maybe for better commutes?  Someone with less dementia than me will remember the very good player that just switched to Monte Vista for senior year in '16 or '17.

Lot of 2 way players in yesterday’s game.  Was interesting to see how the 4th quarter would play out.  

Hope all is well in WA.  Following local state ball?  

DLS keeps the TE streak going.  Nice looking recruit heading to ND.  I liked his inside move on the sack as well.  Quick feet.