golfaddict1 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 21 minutes ago, badrouter said: Both, largely because the algos are developed by humans. But, I wouldn't even use the phrase "too much" here. Previous seasons should have ZERO bearing on the current season's rankings after about one week of games. This should be obvious. Using other seasons to rank teams this season is a way of admitting that the data available for this season is insufficient to distinguish the teams. I had a brief communication with Ken Massey years back via e-mail correspondence. He applied a a rolling data set of 2 years for OOS games performance as he felt he had limited data annually to work with. Not sure if his rating system still follows that protocol or he switched to just current season. IMO, has to be a better way. I don’t agree to use different years, even if it’s a small emphasis on team, it could mean more via state scale. Our stopping point was state scaling. It likely would be again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted November 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, golfaddict1 said: I had a brief communication with Ken Massey years back via e-mail correspondence. He applied a a rolling data set of 2 years for OOS games performance as he felt he had limited data annually to work with. Not sure if his rating system still follows that protocol or he switched to just current season. Our stopping point was state scaling. It likely would be again. Says it all. When the data is that limited, as it is with the majority of cases in HSFB, you can't really offer a rankings list with a straight face. The instances of Team A blowing out Team B in year 1, and getting beaten by Team B in year 2, are near infinite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, badrouter said: Says it all. When the data is that limited, as it is with the majority of cases in HSFB, you can't really offer a rankings list with a straight face. The instances of Team A blowing out Team B in year 1, and getting beaten by Team B in year 2, are near infinite. Would be sweet to do a Q and A with Ned Freeman, podcast style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cossacks Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, badrouter said: That's actually not true. Anyone involved with ranking teams, or with justifying others' ranking of teams, is considering imaginary games that will not be played. People putting Bishop Gorman ahead of Chaminade in 2023 are imagining a game that has not and will not happen, and projecting the imaginary winner. Same for any two other teams. So they aren’t basing the team on their season and body of work of games played? Very interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntn31 Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 11 hours ago, badrouter said: That's actually not true. Anyone involved with ranking teams, or with justifying others' ranking of teams, is considering imaginary games that will not be played. People putting Bishop Gorman ahead of Chaminade in 2023 are imagining a game that has not and will not happen, and projecting the imaginary winner. Same for any two other teams. Breaking news, after all these years @badrouter finally learns that the M in MNC stands for "Mythical." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 21 minutes ago, dntn31 said: Breaking news, after all these years @badrouter finally learns that the M in MNC stands for "Mythical." Not all mythical beasts are created equal though. The Phoenix is considered to be the most mythical beast (guess it could be debated) and only one high school football team has ever come close to the Phoenix that I know of. That's those John Curtis Patriots in 2012! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted November 30, 2023 Report Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 hours ago, dntn31 said: Breaking news, after all these years @badrouter finally learns that the M in MNC stands for "Mythical." It's not unreasonable to demand some consistency and rigor even with something that's mythical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted December 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2023 22 hours ago, Cossacks said: So they aren’t basing the team on their season and body of work of games played? Very interesting. In the case of Bishop Gorman and Chaminade, they are not. Because there is no rationale for putting 2023 BG over Chaminade other than the result from a different season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted December 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2023 12 hours ago, dntn31 said: Breaking news, after all these years @badrouter finally learns that the M in MNC stands for "Mythical." I don't think many of you really see it as mythical. I think most here tend to think the rankings explain how the teams compare to each other in mostly factual terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted December 1, 2023 Report Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 hours ago, badrouter said: I don't think many of you really see it as mythical. I think most here tend to think the rankings explain how the teams compare to each other in mostly factual terms. Dude, it's all bullshit that is clearly frying your brain. If you want to think the Florida team is #1 nationally no one Is stopping you. Don't let it consume you and ruin your life. 😧😭 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted December 1, 2023 Report Share Posted December 1, 2023 Anytime somebody places a high school football team in a Top 25 Poll they're saying they could beat 16,000 other high schools...... and they know it for a fact! lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted December 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2023 22 hours ago, RedZone said: Dude, it's all bullshit that is clearly frying your brain. If you want to think the Florida team is #1 nationally no one Is stopping you. Don't let it consume you and ruin your life. 😧😭 I haven't claimed the Florida team is #1. The claim is that Bishop Gorman does not have a claim to be ranked ahead of Chaminade in, checks notes, 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted December 2, 2023 Report Share Posted December 2, 2023 6 hours ago, badrouter said: I haven't claimed the Florida team is #1. The claim is that Bishop Gorman does not have a claim to be ranked ahead of Chaminade in, checks notes, 2023. The Bishop is currently the #1 team in the nation. Most everybody in the Free World that cares agrees with this except you. You're pimping Chaminade in some kind of weird and strange way. You wouldn't be working this damn hard and overthinking the equation for a team from another state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat_Scratch Posted December 2, 2023 Report Share Posted December 2, 2023 2 hours ago, RedZone said: The Bishop is currently the #1 team in the nation. Most everybody in the Free World that cares agrees with this except you. You're pimping Chaminade in some kind of weird and strange way. You wouldn't be working this damn hard and overthinking the equation for a team from another state. Awe, you got your pick, if it ain't Chaminade then it's IMG... the rest are just decent teams that would lose to IMG or Chaminade. LOL... You al know it's true... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
954gator Posted December 3, 2023 Report Share Posted December 3, 2023 On 11/30/2023 at 9:10 PM, badrouter said: In the case of Bishop Gorman and Chaminade, they are not. Because there is no rationale for putting 2023 BG over Chaminade other than the result from a different season. Yeah but to be fair Chami shit the bed so badly that it still stinks a bit. The type of stink that takes a bit of time to wash off lmao. That being said I'm sure they'd be a little more prepared if they were to rematch. They definitely weren't expecting the physicality BG brought last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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