HawgGoneIt Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, DevilDog said: Meaningful no doubt. I see death by Gun suicide is a fancy way to say He Murdered himself. Not to me they are the same and bring the same pain to a family. Just for clarification, I am not on the exact opposite side of this point as you, as I do hold some of those same feelings you express. That's why I said 'depending on circumstance'. Kind of goes back to the whole Dr. Kavorkian thing.... No doubt that suicide is one of the most selfish acts you could commit, but there are circumstances of failed health and suffering where even the family can be brought peace thru death.... But yeah if you want to call that guy who just 'plain old murdered himself' (like when he breaks up with his girlfriend or something) to be on the same level as murder, well that I can agree with.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaximumHornetSting Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 54 minutes ago, DevilDog said: I have never seen a President in my lifetime show this emotion over kids being mass murdered and he didn't have written notes like the one held today: Notice he calls out Chicago and Congress and the lies of the Gun Lobby. This is having conviction. I don't remember any family members being pissed at him over these instances like they are right now. If this was Trump tearing up you guys would have said he is faking it. Of course you will ALL deny it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, thc6795 said: If this was Trump tearing up you guys would have said he is faking it. Of course you will ALL deny it. He didn't warrior so that would be conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Well, as it turns out, I'm not the only person that was tormented over allowing or disallowing such ridiculous accusations on a website. Interesting debate on TYT over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 hours ago, Belly Bob said: By the meme's own account, the FBI interviewed half of these shooters. So they did do something. I'm not sure what else you expected the FBI to do. A big part of the Western tradition of government is that you don't get to arrest a citizen unless he's actually committed a crime or there is very compelling evidence that he's seriously planning to commit a crime. The fact that someone reports that you might commit a crime and that you later do commit a crime doesn't imply that there was ever compelling evidence that you were going to commit a crime. Actually there is a criminal charge of Terroristic threat that he should have been locked up on. Both components of the charge was there. The FBI had enough to prove the threat and the intent of the threat. He should have been locked away back in September Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, HSFBfan said: Actually there is a criminal charge of Terroristic threat that he should have been locked up on. Both components of the charge was there. The FBI had enough to prove the threat and the intent of the threat. He should have been locked away back in September so what? he does it anyway if there are no guns, he does not get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, noonereal said: so what? he does it anyway if there are no guns, he does not get it? Again you really dont want the government to be the only ones with guns. And there is no politician that is going to confiscate guns from gun owners in this country. How would he do it anyway if he is locked away in a cell??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, HSFBfan said: Again you really dont want the government to be the only ones with guns. And there is no politician that is going to confiscate guns from gun owners in this country. i understand that of course so we need to move as close to this as possible start with limiting how many and what type guns can be owned and obviously also, age requirements, licensing, training, insurance and registration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, noonereal said: i understand that of course so we need to move as close to this as possible start with limiting how many and what type guns can be owned and obviously also, age requirements, licensing, training, insurance and registration It wont happen. Its as simple as that. If im a hunter and i have guns i need multiple guns for multiple type of hunting. You are not going to limit the amount of weapons that someone has. Gun owners do register their guns and are licensed. And for some guns its 18 and for others its 21 so there are age requirements. Im going to move on from this subject. Tired of talking about it. Its getting old real quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, HSFBfan said: It wont happen. Its as simple as that. If im a hunter and i have guns i need multiple guns for multiple type of hunting. You are not going to limit the amount of weapons that someone has. Gun owners do register their guns and are licensed. And for some guns its 18 and for others its 21 so there are age requirements. Im going to move on from this subject. Tired of talking about it. Its getting old real quick. better you do move on if you cant learn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, noonereal said: better you do move on if you cant learn You havent taught me anything. You know what were going to do as a society. Move on. Were going to wake up everyday go to work take care of our own priorities and keep our lives going forward. Just like we did after columbine VT sandy hook Kent State Pulse night club 9/11 and the rest of the incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Im going to move on from this subject. Tired of talking about it. Its getting old real quick. Thank God! I don't think I could deal with another day loaded with ignorance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 58 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Im going to move on from this subject. Tired of talking about it. Its getting old real quick HSFBfan 953 HSFBfan 953 Posted 55 minutes ago 57 minutes ago, noonereal said: if you were king, what would you do today about the gun problem? nothing or ??? You wanna ban bump stocks I can get behind that. But i would certainly protect the rights of every citizen in this country Posted 50 minutes ago 52 minutes ago, noonereal said: so basically nothing wow No banning bump stock would be something. If i was going to do nothing i would have said very clearly I would do nothing Posted 51 minutes ago 52 minutes ago, Drummer61 said: Yes, age 21 too..... With specific questions as to why they want an AR 15... Honing device on that weapon too.. I do disagree with this HSFBfan 953 Posted 49 minutes ago 50 minutes ago, noonereal said: do you know what basically means? I understand yes but its not basically nothing. its something and it doesnt infringe on your rights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, HSFBfan said: Actually there is a criminal charge of Terroristic threat that he should have been locked up on. Both components of the charge was there. The FBI had enough to prove the threat and the intent of the threat. He should have been locked away back in September Well, I guess it comes down to your best judgment against the FBI's. It's usually significantly easier to get things right in hindsight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Belly Bob said: Well, I guess it comes down to your best judgment against the FBI's. It's usually significantly easier to get things right in hindsight. They had the kid. 39 trips also by local PD to the kids house. Yea i think he slipped through the cracks of the FBI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: They had the kid. 39 trips also by local PD to the kids house. Yea i think he slipped through the cracks of the FBI I don't know the details of the case. Why don't you share them? You wanted the FBI to arrest him for being crazy? Or for being crazy and making "Terroristic threats"? Or what exactly? Often you dismiss someone's threats on the very grounds that they're crazy. Crazy people often makes threats that they have no real intention of following through on. When doing this kind of exercise, it's important that you bracket the fact that the kid actually committed a crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: I don't know the details of the case. Why don't you share them? You wanted the FBI to arrest him for being crazy? Or for being crazy and making "Terroristic threats"? Or what exactly? Often you dismiss someone's threats on the very grounds that they're crazy. Crazy people often makes threats that they have no real intention of follow through on. When doing this kind of exercise, it's important that you bracket the fact that the kid actually committed a crime. A Terroristic Threat is actually a charge. it comes under the criminal justice system. By the language of the charge he did commit a crime. Here you go. Third teen arrested for making terroristic threats http://abc13.com/teen-arrested-for-making-threat-against-katy-area-school-/3113858/ Heres another one: http://newschannel20.com/news/local/students-arrested-for-terroristic-threat-to-sangamon-valley-high-school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: A Terroristic Threat is actually a charge. it comes under the criminal justice system. By the language of the charge he did commit a crime. Here you go. Third teen arrested for making terroristic threats http://abc13.com/teen-arrested-for-making-threat-against-katy-area-school-/3113858/ Heres another one: http://newschannel20.com/news/local/students-arrested-for-terroristic-threat-to-sangamon-valley-high-school I'm sorry. What are we talking about? These are links to stories about kids who were arrested for making terroristic threats. Ironically, in the second story you posted, the kid arrested was quickly released after questioning because the authorities didn't believe that the kid constituted a genuine threat. That should make it very clear to you that someone can make a terroristic threat without constituting a genuine threat in the eyes of the professionals who investigate these things. But we were discussing whether the FBI should have done more to prevent a particular shooting incident, not whether teenagers in this country are ever arrested and questioned for making terroristic threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Belly Bob said: I'm sorry. What are we talking about? These are links to stories about kids who were arrested for making terroristic threats. Ironically, in the second story you posted, the kid arrested was quickly released after questioning because the authorities didn't believe that the kid constituted a genuine threat. That should make it very clear to you that someone can make a terroristic threat without constituting a genuine threat in the eyes of the professionals who investigate these things. But we were discussing whether the FBI should have done more to prevent a particular shooting incident, not whether teenagers in this country are ever arrested and questioned for making terroristic threats. Yes the FBI could have done more....ARRESTED the kid would have been a fine and legal step of doing more. From what i have read he said and posted things that constitute a threat and he should have been locked up. Then from there maybe he could have been sent to a mental hospital for a long while depending on what the courts think http://www.lewistownsentinel.com/news/local-news/2018/02/ej-student-faces-terroristic-threat-charges-2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, Drummer61 said: Had Cruz been taken care of,using any means, by a citizen who knew he was a wacko, all would be better off.. That may well be true. But the principle that the citizen would be following in that case is one that we would want to try very hard to discourage, since if such a principle was widely followed, all would be much worse off. That's we decided a long time ago to train and fund a police force and a legislature and a judiciary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Yes the FBI could have done more....ARRESTED the kid would have been a fine and legal step of doing more. From what i have read he said and posted things that constitute a threat and he should have been locked up. Then from there maybe he could have been sent to a mental hospital for a long while depending on what the courts think http://www.lewistownsentinel.com/news/local-news/2018/02/ej-student-faces-terroristic-threat-charges-2/ So after all that, we're right back to where we started: it's your best judgment (someone who, I take it, has no professional training and no experience in this sort of thing and who is judging after the fact, when it's very easy to get things right) against the FBI's judgment (who is highly trained and experienced and who had the considerably harder job of judging the case prior to the fact). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, Belly Bob said: So after all that, we're right back to where we started: it's your best judgment (someone who, I take it, has no professional training or experience in this sort of thing and who is judging after the fact, when it's very easy to get things right) against the FBI's judgment (who is highly trained and experienced and who had the considerably harder job of judging the case prior to the fact). FBI is made of people. They made a mistake. They actually apologized for messing up. They are entitled to making a mistake as they are an organization full of people. But unfortunately due to the mistake of said people 17 people died Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.