Track and Field

[nptb17]

2 minutes ago, golfaddict1 said:

Top 3 could probably beat many decent HS squads in the US lol.   Sure these are special kids already being singled out, but my goodness 43 secs lol.  

 

And that's their 10 to 13 year olds.  For all we know all those kids could be 10.

[DevilDog]

These top 3 G.B. USA and Japan are getting stronger.  Jamaica is not.  They were blown up even before Bolt blew a gasket knowing he was smoked 🤣

 

[nptb17]

5 minutes ago, golfaddict1 said:

Top 3 could probably beat many decent HS squads in the US lol.   Sure these are special kids already being singled out, but my goodness 43 secs lol.  

 

And you see who has the record for that age group.  

[golfaddict1]

9 minutes ago, golfaddict1 said:

World Relays in May    Was just reading about Canada training and competing at the FL relays.   De Grasse ran anchor (hope he's healthy).  

http://results.deltatiming.com/ncaa/tf/2019-florida-relays/190328F082  4x200  

http://results.deltatiming.com/ncaa/tf/2019-florida-relays/190328F080  4x100  @954gator, check UF squad 2nd... not sure they can hang with LSU and Arkansas, but the NCAA outdoor finals should be a good one.  

[DevilDog]

3 minutes ago, nptb17 said:

And that's their 10 to 13 year olds.  For all we know all those kids could be 10.

Believe me there is an incredible 8th grader right here in the DFW.  I won't even mention the kid.  You are talking about stacked kids.  If I took the 4 fastest 6th - 8th grade in Texas it would be right there.  Again they are fast no doubt.  

[DevilDog]

4 minutes ago, nptb17 said:

And you see who has the record for that age group.  

No doubt thats fast as hell.  I can get 4 13 year old kids in Tx and Fl and have you say My Goodness 😂Cali had an 8th grader than  ran a 4.37 Forty a year ago.  My Goodness 

[DevilDog]

15 minutes ago, nptb17 said:

And you see who has the record for that age group.  

Here is one Jr. High in Texas 7th Grade. Not stacked one freaking school.  So yes I can get the 4 fastest 6-8th graders and run a 43 or low 44s.   Young Jr. High in Arlington ran a sub 45.  44.74 with just 4 kids in their school 

The two fastest Jr. High 4x100 not stacked or Track club just 2 texas Middle schools.  Young Middle School in Arlington ran a 44.74 They would be top 50 in every state except the big 4

Fastest middle school 4X100 in America.  Again just regular elementary schools.  Those Jamaica schools are stacked  Privates.        

1. 44.74c    TX    Young    Mar 22    AISD JH City Track Meet
2.  45.13     TX    Red Oak.

 

[golfaddict1]

13 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

No doubt thats fast as hell.  I can get 4 13 year old kids in Tx and Fl and have you say My Goodness 😂Cali had an 8th grader than  ran a 4.37 Forty a year ago.  My Goodness 

Mickey Goldmill said it best with his, "but first we gotta get speed" comment.   Or was that Nikki Sixx  

 

 

 

[DevilDog]

Fastest 8th graders in the US so far this track season.  Notice who is dominating.  The kid from Az is 15-16.  The rest are 8th graders.  Tx Fast.  Those 4 Tx kids no doubt would run in the mid or high 42's s all day😂

1.	15-16	Andereya Nsubuga*		11.07PR	AZ	AZ Burn	Mar 30	Arizona USATF Regulation Meet (Highland HS)
2.	8	Micah Bell		11.24PR	TX	Kinkaid	Mar 22	St. John's Junior Maverick Relays
3.	8	Clay Murador		11.27PR	TX	Aledo	Mar 26	Brewer Middle School - Zone Meet
4.	8	Cameron Cleveland		11.32PR	TX	Red Oak	Mar 26	Metro League South Zone Boys Meet
5.	8	Nathan Baker		11.34cPR	TX	Westover Park	Mar 23	Amarillo Relays Meet of Champions
6.	8	I'Derrick Perry		11.44cPR	TX	Workman	Mar 02	Workman JH (AISD) Track Meet #3
7.	8	Jaquez Rigsby		11.47PR	TX	Brewer	Mar 26	Brewer Middle School - Zone Meet
	8	Jamari Carter*		11.47PR	CA	Glacier Point	Mar 28	Jr West Coast Relays
9.	8	Demire Thompson		11.48PR	TX	Bastrop	Mar 14	Veterans Memorial Middle School Relays
	8	Jaren Hamilton		11.48 (.7)PR	FL	P.K. Yonge Developmental Research	Mar 09	Donell Butler Relays
11.	8	Emeka T. JR Nwokedi*		11.49PR	TX	Cooper (Wylie)	Apr 04	Wylie/Rockwall/Allen/LJ JH Championships
	8	Alexander Gardner		11.49PR	HI	Damien Memorial	Mar 13	ILH Intermediate Meet @ Punahou
	8	Jason Swann		11.49PR	TX	Gunn	Mar 22	AISD JH City Track Meet
14.	8	Tristan Lee*		11.50PR	TX	McMillan	Mar 28	RISD Middle School District Qualifier Meet
	8	Jeremiah Smith*		11.50PR	KS	Shawnee Heights	Apr 02	April 2 @ Shawnee Heights with RV, ANT, EIS, JC & Ft. Riley
16.	8	Caleb Collins		11.51PR	TX	Waxahachie Life	Mar 26	Metro League South Zone Boys Meet
17.	8	Ashton Torns		11.54PR	TX	West Ridge	Mar 27	2019 Highland Lakes MS District Track and Field Championships
18.	8	Jack Bradley		11.54cPR	TX	Crownover	Feb 25	Denton ISD Middle School Meet
	8	Donnie Harper		11.54cPR	TX	Shackelford	Mar 22	AISD JH City Track Meet
20.	8	Daren Jones		11.54PR	LA	Dutchtown	Mar 13	Ascension Parish Middle School Championship
21.	-	Ethan Sanders-Brown		11.58PR	GA	Tucker	Feb 27	Dekalb County Middle School FAT Meet
22.	11	Connor Snapp*		11.59 (2.4)PR	UT	Springville	Mar 29	Juab Invitational
23.	8	Jayvant Brown		11.60PR	FL	NSU University School	Mar 07	Calvary Christian Academy MS Invitiational
24.	8	Ian Collins		11.61PR	TX	Decker	Mar 14	Veterans Memorial Middle School Relays
25.	-	Jayquan Billingsley		11.62PR	GA	Tucker	Feb 27	Dekalb County Middle School FAT Meet
	2

 

[DevilDog]

Jamaicans are notorious for being out of the country and being hard to track down for random drug test.  And usually when tested many have failed.  Just saying that little Island might have more than Ganja fueling them.  Bolt has been suspect as well. Just Saying.  Not taking away but that is common knowledge in T&F.  The U.S. has had cheaters as well. but to quote @nptb17 "you have to be impressed with the small population"  but huge cheaters too 😎 this a 2016 article I am sure they have added to it. 

@golfaddict1 Interesting reading.  https://medium.com/@tomnew/usain-bolt-lance-armstrong-and-the-duck-test-303b7b891e7e

A Dirty Team

Here’s a list of every doping ban for Jamaican Olympians during Usain Bolt’s professional career, and the sport they were in:

 

That’s 19 bans, 16 of which were in Sprinting. Ray Stewart number, 17 is a sports coach- he coaches sprinting. 90% of all Jamaican athletes banned have been in sprinting, including Bolts’ former training partner Yohan Blake.

If we look at all the countries that have had bans in sprinting over this timeframe, only the US has had more (26). Nigeria have had 12, Russia 8, Canada 7, the Ukraine 6. Great Britain has had 3. If you compare the number of bans to the populations of some of these countries, Jamaica comes out way on top:

[954gator]

1 hour ago, golfaddict1 said:

http://results.deltatiming.com/ncaa/tf/2019-florida-relays/190328F082  4x200  

http://results.deltatiming.com/ncaa/tf/2019-florida-relays/190328F080  4x100  @954gator, check UF squad 2nd... not sure they can hang with LSU and Arkansas, but the NCAA outdoor finals should be a good one.  

Damn check out USA “B”. Tyson gay, justin Gatlin, Dukes.....Fl beat them??

[nptb17]

C.F.P.I. Timing & Data - Contractor License                 3/24/2018 - 7:41 PM
     ISSA/Grace Kennedy Boys and Girls Champs 2018 - 3/20/2018 to 3/24/2018     
                           National Stadium, Jamaica                            
 
Event 27  Boys 10-13 100 Meter Dash CLASS 3 BOYS
============================================================================    
 Sponsor: LUCOZADE                                                              
 Meet Record: R 10.79  3/23/2018   Bouwahjgie Nkrumie, KC                       
    Comp#  Name                Year School                  Finals  Wind Points    
============================================================================    
Finals                                                                          
  1 #  821 Bouwahjgie Nkrumi     Kingston College         10.79R  0.6   9       
  2 #  802 Adrian Kerr           Kingston College         10.81   0.6   7       
  3 #  180 David Lynch           Calabar High             11.08   0.6   6       
  4 # 1262 Roshane Mcleod        Steths                   11.12   0.6   5       
  5 #  155 Elado Coltas          Calabar High             11.27   0.6   4       
  6 #  654 Krishaun Corrodus     Jamaica College          11.30   0.6   3       
  7 #  216 Jalan Bennett         Camperdown High          11.32   0.6   2       
  8 #  900 Rajaun Watson         Manchester High          11.69   0.6   1      

Let me guess.  They are doping the middle school age kids too.  

[nptb17]

8 hours ago, DevilDog said:

Jamaicans are notorious for being out of the country and being hard to track down for random drug test.  And usually when tested many have failed.  Just saying that little Island might have more than Ganja fueling them.  Bolt has been suspect as well. Just Saying.  Not taking away but that is common knowledge in T&F.  The U.S. has had cheaters as well. but to quote @nptb17 "you have to be impressed with the small population"  but huge cheaters too 😎 this a 2016 article I am sure they have added to it. 

@golfaddict1 Interesting reading.  https://medium.com/@tomnew/usain-bolt-lance-armstrong-and-the-duck-test-303b7b891e7e

A Dirty Team

Here’s a list of every doping ban for Jamaican Olympians during Usain Bolt’s professional career, and the sport they were in:

 

That’s 19 bans, 16 of which were in Sprinting. Ray Stewart number, 17 is a sports coach- he coaches sprinting. 90% of all Jamaican athletes banned have been in sprinting, including Bolts’ former training partner Yohan Blake.

If we look at all the countries that have had bans in sprinting over this timeframe, only the US has had more (26). Nigeria have had 12, Russia 8, Canada 7, the Ukraine 6. Great Britain has had 3. If you compare the number of bans to the populations of some of these countries, Jamaica comes out way on top:

You say not taking anything away but that is what you are trying to do.  Bolt has never failed a drug test so that is all I will go on.  All the other he said she said stuff is for the birds.  

[golfaddict1]

12 hours ago, DevilDog said:

Jamaicans are notorious for being out of the country and being hard to track down for random drug test.  And usually when tested many have failed.  Just saying that little Island might have more than Ganja fueling them.  Bolt has been suspect as well. Just Saying.  Not taking away but that is common knowledge in T&F.  The U.S. has had cheaters as well. but to quote @nptb17 "you have to be impressed with the small population"  but huge cheaters too 😎 this a 2016 article I am sure they have added to it. 

@golfaddict1 Interesting reading.  https://medium.com/@tomnew/usain-bolt-lance-armstrong-and-the-duck-test-303b7b891e7e

A Dirty Team

Here’s a list of every doping ban for Jamaican Olympians during Usain Bolt’s professional career, and the sport they were in:

 

That’s 19 bans, 16 of which were in Sprinting. Ray Stewart number, 17 is a sports coach- he coaches sprinting. 90% of all Jamaican athletes banned have been in sprinting, including Bolts’ former training partner Yohan Blake.

If we look at all the countries that have had bans in sprinting over this timeframe, only the US has had more (26). Nigeria have had 12, Russia 8, Canada 7, the Ukraine 6. Great Britain has had 3. If you compare the number of bans to the populations of some of these countries, Jamaica comes out way on top:

The ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on the 1988 100 meter dash 9.79* is a must watch.   The most famous race had its perks and the next generation including Bolt was making good coin and especially Bolt.    I think similar to the Tour de Lance,  basically all the greats were cheating and one could question if a chemist decided the results as much as the sprinter's talent.   A chemist who could max performance and mask the drugs should have been on the podium as well lol.  If I had to guess who was truly clean, Calvin Smith or Usain Bolt, I'm leaning favorably to Smith.   The Duck mention in the article and the improvement with endorsement coin reaching 20 million a year or more at one point in Bolt's career... Jamaica's drug testing was really weak during their best period and that's hard to ignore.   then again, technically Lewis and Deloach tested positive for drugs (sudafed type but a stimulant that many sprinters had colds  ) at the US trials and were lucky to even be included on the US squad in 1988.   The 400m hurdles Gold winner from USA same deal, forgot his name.  

Usain Bolt's strides count and ridiculous ability to sustain his top end speed are two reasons for thinking maybe just maybe the guy's a natural.  He ran a sub 20 200 as a teenager,  so he wasn't a weakling in spikes, but his later progression and Jamaica's in tandem makes you wonder.   Tyson Gay there's no wondering, but the guy could motor.   Like Armstrong, you do it or you adios podium.   That's my take.  

There was the braces with HGH discussion and/or other roid/growth hormone combo cycle   I don't know what to think there.   @Bormio, any thoughts or insight?   I recall supposedly Barry Bonds hat size strangely increasing (not sure if myth or HGH maybe).   Many sprinters in the past including big names from the US and Jamaica wore braces (including Lewis) and it was brought up in the documentary.    There's also the financial aspect to consider... many adults who have money to use for braces do so, but again the duck factor is hard to ignore.   

Is it clean now?     Won't be as much hoopla without Bolt, but it's still the fastest man on earth race and always exciting with endorsement money hanging on a podium finish and likely diamond league entrance fee money I would guess among other events goes up with the hardware in your resume as well as impressive PB times.  

[golfaddict1]

12 hours ago, 954gator said:

Damn check out USA “B”. Tyson gay, justin Gatlin, Dukes.....Fl beat them??

... probably just warming up for the World Relays in May and getting in shape.  At Gay and Gatlin's age doubtful they are close to top form end of March.  Bad exchange maybe, didn't see video but a well groomed college 4x100 team sure I can see that.    Will be interesting to see how the World Champ. turn out later this year, Holloway included hopefully.      

[DevilDog]

12 hours ago, nptb17 said:

You say not taking anything away but that is what you are trying to do.  Bolt has never failed a drug test so that is all I will go on.  All the other he said she said stuff is for the birds.  

I'm the one person on here with everyone against me claiming him the Greatest athlete ever.  Go read that post on greatest athlete ever.  Only I. By the way I didn't do the research or write the article.  Hardly on me taking anything from him or them.  

[954gator]

On 4/5/2019 at 8:30 AM, nptb17 said:

C.F.P.I. Timing & Data - Contractor License                 3/24/2018 - 7:41 PM
     ISSA/Grace Kennedy Boys and Girls Champs 2018 - 3/20/2018 to 3/24/2018     
                           National Stadium, Jamaica                            
 
Event 27  Boys 10-13 100 Meter Dash CLASS 3 BOYS
============================================================================    
 Sponsor: LUCOZADE                                                              
 Meet Record: R 10.79  3/23/2018   Bouwahjgie Nkrumie, KC                       
    Comp#  Name                Year School                  Finals  Wind Points    
============================================================================    
Finals                                                                          
  1 #  821 Bouwahjgie Nkrumi     Kingston College         10.79R  0.6   9       
  2 #  802 Adrian Kerr           Kingston College         10.81   0.6   7       
  3 #  180 David Lynch           Calabar High             11.08   0.6   6       
  4 # 1262 Roshane Mcleod        Steths                   11.12   0.6   5       
  5 #  155 Elado Coltas          Calabar High             11.27   0.6   4       
  6 #  654 Krishaun Corrodus     Jamaica College          11.30   0.6   3       
  7 #  216 Jalan Bennett         Camperdown High          11.32   0.6   2       
  8 #  900 Rajaun Watson         Manchester High          11.69   0.6   1      

Let me guess.  They are doping the middle school age kids too.  

Honestly, not saying they are, but I know a lot of kids are trying to get shady stuff in early before the serious testing begins.    I mean parents can legally get an RX of HGH for their kids right?    Just saying it wouldn't surprise me.  

[Texasball]

On 4/5/2019 at 7:38 AM, nptb17 said:

You say not taking anything away but that is what you are trying to do.  Bolt has never failed a drug test so that is all I will go on.  All the other he said she said stuff is for the birds.  

Let me start school in Texas or Florida that enrolls k-12 and that specializes in Track  and I will show you kids that are equal to anything those Jam can do.

just like in baseball in parts of the world - you are foolish to believe the ages of the Jam too.

[nptb17]

9 hours ago, Texasball said:

Let me start school in Texas or Florida that enrolls k-12 and that specializes in Track  and I will show you kids that are equal to anything those Jam can do.

just like in baseball in parts of the world - you are foolish to believe the ages of the Jam too.

I see.  They must be cheating if they have kids that run faster than kids from Texas or Florida.  That boy is not 12.  He's 17.  That girl isn't 14.  She's 22.

[Texasball]

36 minutes ago, nptb17 said:

I see.  They must be cheating if they have kids that run faster than kids from Texas or Florida.  That boy is not 12.  He's 17.  That girl isn't 14.  She's 22.

Something like that.  I want go into it.  The young kids from there live a much different life style vs the kids from the states.  If we could take group of promising young boys and make them eat sleep and drink sprinting like what is being done in Jam - you would see the same basic results.

Just last year Texas and Florida produced two kids on the high school level that can run with any of the Jam kids. 

The difference- Kaylon Barnes and Anthony Schwartz both play D1 football now

Kaylon Barnes also played Basketball on very good small school team and was good at it.

The schools over there running great times are stacked on purpose.

we took 4 top kids from TX just couple of years ago whipped one of those teams at the Great Southwest meet.  Let’s just say that was not exactly the best 4 possible kids either.

i am not denying that the Jam are fast.  They are...At the younger ages it more about focus .

Bolt was freak...do they have anyone now getting close to his records?

 

 

 

 

[DevilDog]

2 hours ago, Texasball said:

Something like that.  I want go into it.  The young kids from there live a much different life style vs the kids from the states.  If we could take group of promising young boys and make them eat sleep and drink sprinting like what is being done in Jam - you would see the same basic results.

Just last year Texas and Florida produced two kids on the high school level that can run with any of the Jam kids. 

The difference- Kaylon Barnes and Anthony Schwartz both play D1 football now

Kaylon Barnes also played Basketball on very good small school team and was good at it.

The schools over there running great times are stacked on purpose.

we took 4 top kids from TX just couple of years ago whipped one of those teams at the Great Southwest meet.  Let’s just say that was not exactly the best 4 possible kids either.

i am not denying that the Jam are fast.  They are...At the younger ages it more about focus .

Bolt was freak...do they have anyone now getting close to his records?

 

 

 

 

[Texasball]

On 4/4/2019 at 10:55 PM, DevilDog said:

Fastest 8th graders in the US so far this track season.  Notice who is dominating.  The kid from Az is 15-16.  The rest are 8th graders.  Tx Fast.  Those 4 Tx kids no doubt would run in the mid or high 42's s all day😂

1.	15-16	Andereya Nsubuga*		11.07PR	AZ	AZ Burn	Mar 30	Arizona USATF Regulation Meet (Highland HS)
2.	8	Micah Bell		11.24PR	TX	Kinkaid	Mar 22	St. John's Junior Maverick Relays
3.	8	Clay Murador		11.27PR	TX	Aledo	Mar 26	Brewer Middle School - Zone Meet
4.	8	Cameron Cleveland		11.32PR	TX	Red Oak	Mar 26	Metro League South Zone Boys Meet
5.	8	Nathan Baker		11.34cPR	TX	Westover Park	Mar 23	Amarillo Relays Meet of Champions
6.	8	I'Derrick Perry		11.44cPR	TX	Workman	Mar 02	Workman JH (AISD) Track Meet #3
7.	8	Jaquez Rigsby		11.47PR	TX	Brewer	Mar 26	Brewer Middle School - Zone Meet
	8	Jamari Carter*		11.47PR	CA	Glacier Point	Mar 28	Jr West Coast Relays
9.	8	Demire Thompson		11.48PR	TX	Bastrop	Mar 14	Veterans Memorial Middle School Relays
	8	Jaren Hamilton		11.48 (.7)PR	FL	P.K. Yonge Developmental Research	Mar 09	Donell Butler Relays
11.	8	Emeka T. JR Nwokedi*		11.49PR	TX	Cooper (Wylie)	Apr 04	Wylie/Rockwall/Allen/LJ JH Championships
	8	Alexander Gardner		11.49PR	HI	Damien Memorial	Mar 13	ILH Intermediate Meet @ Punahou
	8	Jason Swann		11.49PR	TX	Gunn	Mar 22	AISD JH City Track Meet
14.	8	Tristan Lee*		11.50PR	TX	McMillan	Mar 28	RISD Middle School District Qualifier Meet
	8	Jeremiah Smith*		11.50PR	KS	Shawnee Heights	Apr 02	April 2 @ Shawnee Heights with RV, ANT, EIS, JC & Ft. Riley
16.	8	Caleb Collins		11.51PR	TX	Waxahachie Life	Mar 26	Metro League South Zone Boys Meet
17.	8	Ashton Torns		11.54PR	TX	West Ridge	Mar 27	2019 Highland Lakes MS District Track and Field Championships
18.	8	Jack Bradley		11.54cPR	TX	Crownover	Feb 25	Denton ISD Middle School Meet
	8	Donnie Harper		11.54cPR	TX	Shackelford	Mar 22	AISD JH City Track Meet
20.	8	Daren Jones		11.54PR	LA	Dutchtown	Mar 13	Ascension Parish Middle School Championship
21.	-	Ethan Sanders-Brown		11.58PR	GA	Tucker	Feb 27	Dekalb County Middle School FAT Meet
22.	11	Connor Snapp*		11.59 (2.4)PR	UT	Springville	Mar 29	Juab Invitational
23.	8	Jayvant Brown		11.60PR	FL	NSU University School	Mar 07	Calvary Christian Academy MS Invitiational
24.	8	Ian Collins		11.61PR	TX	Decker	Mar 14	Veterans Memorial Middle School Relays
25.	-	Jayquan Billingsley		11.62PR	GA	Tucker	Feb 27	Dekalb County Middle School FAT Meet
	2

 

The vast majority of JR schools don’t even report this stuff.

[DevilDog]

30 minutes ago, Texasball said:

The vast majority of JR schools don’t even report this stuff.

I can go to Beast Texas and pick 4 13yr olds that will be among the fastest kids anywhere more or less the whole state to pick from.  Jamaica is fast no one is denying that.  Bolt a one of a lIfetime (Like Never) sprinter have clouded many minds. 

We both are Track Guys.  Here is proof.  I have been following Track since I was in the 6th grade back in Beast Texas in the 70's.  And I never stopped. The one Constant has been the USA. Take the 4x100 which proves depth of sprinters.  When did Jamaica become relevant in that event?  Let me help when Bolt came on the scene in 2009.  Before that look at this.  And like I said they will drop back to being 3rd best in the world and hard pressed to Beat Japan for 3rd.  I remember when it was  Canada, France and Brazil challenging the USA.  Then Jamaica all those damn teams fade and the USA will always be there. When they don't drop the baton 🤣 

In 1983 is when the 4x100 was ran for the Championship in the World Championship of athletics Every 4yrs for the 1st 2 and every 2 years after 1991.  This what Bolt did to that team.

From 1983 - 2009 when bolt arrived they finished 3rd in 1987 and 2nd in 2007.  In 11 races they placed twice never winning it. 

2009 Bolt arrives.  2009  - 2017 (5) races they won 4 golds  and lost in 2017 when he pulled up as Gatlin and the Brit was smoking his ass in his swan song.  

They were no more special than anyone.  Bolt was Super human.  He's gone and they will be getting smoked.  

They ran 8 of the 9 fastest 4x100 in history with him.  And won both olympics in 2012 & 2016.  He was not around in 2008 and they didn't medal with the USA screwing up 🤣

 

 

 

[DevilDog]

This is still the most incredible 4X100 in History in my opinion.  4 Ladies running a sub 41.00  Insane and smoked Jamaica.  Those ladies avg a 10.2 per leg and Jeter pointed at the clock.  CLASSIC.  Those 1st 2 legs might be the best ever ran man or woman. 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQM0btlfO1o

[Texasball]

Kingston College Jam - the fastest 4x100 they have had was 2016 - the very year 4 kids from TX that simply showed up in New Mexico for the great southwest meet without practicing together - smoke that ass.  Most years the group would be just another fast school in Texas

see their best by year

http://pennrelaysonline.com/History/team.aspx?s=558