At NASCAR in Bristol reporting 100,000 empty seats

[Wosinc]

28 minutes ago, ECHS05 said:

It was already on its last legs, but once Jeff Gordon retired, I think that was it. It cannot be saved.

I watched it back in the day... From '92-05 probably. I went from being a Kyle Petty fan (when he drove the Mello Yello car), to Mark Martin, to Jeff Gordon. I know a lot of people hated the guy (and Im glad he dropped the Rainbow Warrior shit) but Jeff Gordon was my favorite driver and the greatest Nascar driver of All Time.

Apropos of nothing, but for some reason my sister, who is a huge NASCAR fan, hated Jeff Gordon.  I never figured out why, and she never told me, but she literally fuckin’ hated the guy.

If I ever wanted to wind her up, or have her not speak to me for, say, three months, all I had to do was ask her “Hey, how’s Jeff Gordon doing?

Good times.

 

[HawgGoneIt]

1 minute ago, HooverOutlaw said:

Talladega by far was the wildest. We went to the coca cola 600 in 1989 there was more partying went Friday afternoon at Talladega than the whole weekend in charlotte. Waltrip won that race but one my favorites Alan Kulwicki was best that day. He blew up late in the race. 

By the way give me the Alabama gang back too.

I remember in the 90s the campgrounds were all full so they were literally pitching tents in the cotton fields across the road from the track. 

Drunk naked girls running around stomping down cotton stalks bare footed. Hahaha. 

There's you some nostalgia! 

Been there, seen that!

[HooverOutlaw]

20 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I have to admit that I do miss some of the nostalgic things HooverOutlaw mentions though. 

I miss looking across the track from the towers and seeing the packed Allison Grandstands at Talladega.

I miss sitting...well standing at my seats in the backstretch stands at Atlanta. I haven't even made myself go to Atlanta since they took the stands down where I used to spend the race getting told to get off the fence and back to my seat  by a track employee. 

There's definitely lot's to miss, but, there's still stuff to enjoy too. 

The Allison grandstands have been removed.

[HawgGoneIt]

Just now, HooverOutlaw said:

The Allison grandstands have been removed.

I know. Which is why I miss them. Haha

The track has been undergoing an infield renovation since last October. It's not totally complete yet but will be by this October. 

I can't wait to see what they've done so far in a few weeks though.

[HooverOutlaw]

6 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I remember in the 90s the campgrounds were all full so they were literally pitching tents in the cotton fields across the road from the track. 

Drunk naked girls running around stomping down cotton stalks bare footed. Hahaha. 

There's you some nostalgia! 

Been there, seen that!

In about 86 or 87 some guys that worked and ran the Hoover firestone tire center all went to  one of the summer  races at talladega. Got drunk got this guys RV impounded and arrested for drunk fighting etc. Monday only 2 guys showed up for work.  Probably had a 8 to 10 man crew that worked there.  This was funny local story back then. Hoover was only about a 1/20 of its size now. So it made the rounds. I can hear now from a customer I need 4 tires, oil change, front brakes and alignment.  Can't do it today sir and my mechanics are in the Talladega county jail.

[HawgGoneIt]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davecaldwell/2019/04/08/nascars-dented-image-absorbs-yet-another-big-hit/amp/

 

 

[BigDrop]

Several years ago my wife and I drove down I 81 to Asheville.  We went right by Bristol where I stopped for a few minutes to look at it.  It was in the middle of nowhere.  Steepest stands I’ve ever seen in any raceway anywhere.

I left thinking I was not in Daytona or north of Charlotte-I was in a place that I would never come back to.  

There is not much of a population base within a 100 or even 150 mile ring for this to pull from.

[HawgGoneIt]

53 minutes ago, BigDrop said:

Several years ago my wife and I drove down I 81 to Asheville.  We went right by Bristol where I stopped for a few minutes to look at it.  It was in the middle of nowhere.  Steepest stands I’ve ever seen in any raceway anywhere.

I left thinking I was not in Daytona or north of Charlotte-I was in a place that I would never come back to.  

There is not much of a population base within a 100 or even 150 mile ring for this to pull from.

It's certainly in a strange area. In a valley with only a miniscule little community around it. 

The Last Great Coliseum. 

Idk. I really enjoyed my few days there last year, in spite of the lack of fans, the race getting rained out on Sunday etc. 

It's certainly an awe inspiring place from outside, but, if you are ever to go inside and stand dead center of the infield under Collossus while the cars are running like a conveyor belt around the track... Well, that was a fairly indescribable feeling. 

[Fred]

On 4/7/2019 at 8:12 PM, HooverOutlaw said:

Hey Buford I have been to Talladega in the 70's, 80's, 90's , 00's , and 10's.

Been to almost 80 NASCAR races.  Never been to a race with 125,000 no shows that's your generation.    They have taken out 80,000 seats at Talladega. My generation of fans built it. Then the fan base who ask stuff like who is Cale Yarborough, or makes the statement NASCAR go faster today clueless of the fact Bill Elliott was going 217 coming into the tri oval at Talladega in 1987 thats the fan base of today.

I can remember being in the infield at Talladega and drivers coming in the public bathroom to take a piss. Darrell Waltrip was in blue jeans taking a piss. Today's elite PC drivers would not  piss on a fan if he was in fire much less take a piss with them. Give me cowboy hats and drivers with wad of a chew in, fights,  cussing, Ken Squier and Ned Jarrett calling the races no slicked up pretty boys as racers. 

 

Restrictor plate racing came about because Bill could make the most out of those awesome engines Ernie was building.  In fact, a lot of the tech rules came about in an effort to let everyone else catch up to Ernie. I've never really been a Ford guy but Bill and Ernie and the rest of the Elliot boys could flat make those Grand Torinos fly.

[HawgGoneIt]

The race coming up in Talladega will be the first superspeedway race since those days to not use a restrictor plate. 

I'm curious to see how the new system works first hand. Very excited.

[Fred]

On 4/7/2019 at 8:22 PM, ECHS05 said:

It was already on its last legs, but once Jeff Gordon retired, I think that was it. It cannot be saved.

I watched it back in the day... From '92-05 probably. I went from being a Kyle Petty fan (when he drove the Mello Yello car), to Mark Martin, to Jeff Gordon. I know a lot of people hated the guy (and Im glad he dropped the Rainbow Warrior shit) but Jeff Gordon was my favorite driver and the greatest Nascar driver of All Time.

I initially didn't care for Jeff because he was a pretty boy that wasn't from the right background but I came to really appreciate him and his skills.  It's kind of like Chipper Jones for me.  I really didn't like him but I came to appreciate that even at 80% Chipper was better than 98% of the players out there. 

I think the fact Jeff wasn't from the NASCAR good old boys background brought a lot of new fans into the sport.

[HawgGoneIt]

https://www.talladegasuperspeedway.com/Articles/2018/09/2019-Rules-Package.aspx

[Fred]

On 4/7/2019 at 7:07 PM, HawgGoneIt said:

Also a huge change happened when the tobacco money was pulled out. 

Tough to understate how important and huge that influence being pulled out changed the sport. As we know, they have struggled to keep an entity as the series' title sponsor ever since and the amount of money invested by the new entities is nothing close to what Winston did. 

A lot of variables at play. Not just the personalities issue, which is no doubt pretty subdued by the title sponsor and team sponsors. 

I don't remember how old I was when I figured out that the Winston Cup Series was named after a cigarette company.  It had just always been the Winston Cup to me with no association beyond that.

[HooverOutlaw]

40 minutes ago, Fred said:

Restrictor plate racing came about because Bill could make the most out of those awesome engines Ernie was building.  In fact, a lot of the tech rules came about in an effort to let everyone else catch up to Ernie. I've never really been a Ford guy but Bill and Ernie and the rest of the Elliot boys could flat make those Grand Torinos fly.

Bobby Allison almost go into the stands in spring 1987 is what got plates For NASCAR.  For the summer they made them run 390 carbs dropped speeds over 10 mph.  When Elliot was running so fast he was in a thunderbird. The yates heads were so much better than a conventional Chevrolet head at the time.  For about 3 years 85-87 It was the Ford vs Dale Sr.  at the big tracks. 

Earnhardt at super speedway was worth 2 mph. At one point he tested Rusty Wallace's car and was 2 mph faster than Wallace in 5 car testing at Talladega. 

In qualifying NASCAR would only allow 10-15 degrees of spoiler in the race they go up to 45 degrees it would pick the cars up several mph. 

I was at the race Bobby went into the fence long day they cut the race short about 10 laps due to sunlight. 

 

[HooverOutlaw]

46 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

https://www.talladegasuperspeedway.com/Articles/2018/09/2019-Rules-Package.aspx

 I bet they qualify 193ish. More down force slows them down. They have not made any aero advances since wind tunnel testing money slowed down in 2005-2006.  If you took a top 5 1987 era NASCAR they would win by 8-9 laps at dega.

[HawgGoneIt]

11 minutes ago, HooverOutlaw said:

 I bet they qualify 193ish. More down force slows them down. They have not made any aero advances since wind tunnel testing money slowed down in 2005-2006.  If you took a top 5 1987 era NASCAR they would win by 8-9 laps at dega.

No doubt. They don't want them going that speed anymore. They just want them to be more maneuverable without losing the draft, which is what has made the superspeedways more and more boring. 

 

Talking about Dale Sr. at superspeedways, he just knew the trick to slow guys down making him look faster. More guys have learned it now, which is why they're constantly tinkering with the rules trying to change the dynamics. 

Put your front bumper by the guy you want to pass' rear wheel well. Fill it with the air off your bumper and slow him down. It makes the illusion that you gain hp when in reality you're just slowing him down a tad. You peel down or up away and it looks like you have rocketed away. 

Timed properly at the end of a race coming off the trioval heading to the finish line at Dega, and it's almost a sure win. 

[HawgGoneIt]

49 minutes ago, Fred said:

I don't remember how old I was when I figured out that the Winston Cup Series was named after a cigarette company.  It had just always been the Winston Cup to me with no association beyond that.

Same for me. I never made the connection until I started going to races and they were pushing freebies at you. Little five packs of Winston cigarettes free. Free lighters and ash trays etc. Hahaha

[HooverOutlaw]

9 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

No doubt. They don't want them going that speed anymore. They just want them to be more maneuverable without losing the draft, which is what has made the superspeedways more and more boring. 

 

Talking about Dale Sr. at superspeedways, he just knew the trick to slow guys down making him look faster. More guys have learned it now, which is why they're constantly tinkering with the rules trying to change the dynamics. 

Put your front bumper by the guy you want to pass' rear wheel well. Fill it with the air off your bumper and slow him down. It makes the illusion that you gain hp when in reality you're just slowing him down a tad. You peel down or up away and it looks like you have rocketed away. 

Timed properly at the end of a race coming off the trioval heading to the finish line at Dega, and it's almost a sure win. 

The Monte Carlo in that era had so much rear down force over the Ford's it was crazy.  Ford thunderbird cut the wind better.  Earnhardt was one of few who was willing to wreck the field to win.  Plus RCR were the wind tunnel kings in the day.  Most could not afford but one cool suit back then. Much less wind tunnel testing. Starting in 1985 Earnhardt had a blank check to r&d .

[HawgGoneIt]

To me this is part of what's wrong with racing today. 

The fact that they want everyone so equal. Anytime someone learns a trick and utilizes it enough to go on a tear, they adjust the rules to bring them back to earth. 

This is true between the manufacturers, and different teams. Say Ford changes their body style a little and it creates some advantage, the other two manufacturers cry or complain until they're either allowed to change something to reel them back in or until NASCAR adds something to them to slow them back down. 

When teams figured out to coil some gas line to hold an extra gallon of fuel, NASCAR started dictating and measuring the length and diameter of the fuel lines. 

Teams like the 48 learned how to manipulate the body of their cars to create less drag but still fit the templates, so now we have optical scanners. 

Etc. 

[Fred]

1 hour ago, HawgGoneIt said:

To me this is part of what's wrong with racing today. 

The fact that they want everyone so equal. Anytime someone learns a trick and utilizes it enough to go on a tear, they adjust the rules to bring them back to earth. 

This is true between the manufacturers, and different teams. Say Ford changes their body style a little and it creates some advantage, the other two manufacturers cry or complain until they're either allowed to change something to reel them back in or until NASCAR adds something to them to slow them back down. 

When teams figured out to coil some gas line to hold an extra gallon of fuel, NASCAR started dictating and measuring the length and diameter of the fuel lines. 

Teams like the 48 learned how to manipulate the body of their cars to create less drag but still fit the templates, so now we have optical scanners. 

Etc. 

There is so little difference between manufacturers now in racing it is sad.

[dan in daytona]

46 minutes ago, Fred said:

There is so little difference between manufacturers now in racing it is sad.

NASCAR's rule book is written in sand. A Daytona high tide has always washed away any advantage a manufacturer had. It's contrived competition, southern style. Bologna wrapper in turn four, throw the yellow, bunch them up, take a leak, sell a $6 can of Bush, wave the green, and have at it...My 1st race was the 1964 Firecracker 400. The King, in a Plymouth, was leading by half a lap until he "blowed up."  That Petty blue car sure was pretty.... 

[ThunderRam]

On 4/7/2019 at 5:22 PM, ECHS05 said:

Jeff Gordon was my favorite driver and the greatest Nascar driver of All Time.

 

Yep. Nearly 100 wins during an era with far less races and more parity among not only drivers but equipment (compared to the earlier eras). JG’s 13-win season is gonna be tough to top.

Also feel JG got screwed by rule changes because he was so damn dominant. He would have won several more Cup titles had they not went to the current rules of resetting points. His huge point leads were marginalized. 

I compare it to a football game where one team leads 38-7 after Q3. If the NFL suddenly said, “well, nobody’s gonna watch Q4 so we’ll instead reset the lead to 21-7 and see what happens.” Then when the losing team comes back from the ‘smaller’ deficit they have the audacity to crown them champion and label it a miracle comeback. Ridiculous. Jimmy Johnson won multiple Cup titles that way. It’s a farce.

Regarding increasing viewership, there’s a lot they can do IMO. They need to do away with this ‘Chase’ crap and go back to the way it used to be long ago. If one driver runs away with points then that’s how it goes. But at least the true best car/driver/team will win the championship and not someone that had a mediocre season but just got hot at the right time (Tony Stewart, anyone?).

They also need to do away with rain-shortened races. Figure out a way to complete the damn race! If you got to stay in town a day or two later, so be it! Put them damn rain tires on if you have to. But don’t end these races with some scrub guessing right on when the race will be called and staying out on the track at the right time. Absolutely lame!

Lastly, I hate restrictor-plate racing! There’s nothing worse than 30 cars all packed together and 1 car wrecks the entire field. Those races — specifically Daytona and Talledega — usually comes down to the luck of surviving wrecks and who teams up with whom the final lap. Too much luck involved. I want to see driving skill and pit strategy prevail.

[HawgGoneIt]

1 hour ago, ThunderRam said:

 

Yep. Nearly 100 wins during an era with far less races and more parity among not only drivers but equipment (compared to the earlier eras). JG’s 13-win season is gonna be tough to top.

Also feel JG got screwed by rule changes because he was so damn dominant. He would have won several more Cup titles had they not went to the current rules of resetting points. His huge point leads were marginalized. 

I compare it to a football game where one team leads 38-7 after Q3. If the NFL suddenly said, “well, nobody’s gonna watch Q4 so we’ll instead reset the lead to 21-7 and see what happens.” Then when the losing team comes back from the ‘smaller’ deficit they have the audacity to crown them champion and label it a miracle comeback. Ridiculous. Jimmy Johnson won multiple Cup titles that way. It’s a farce.

Regarding increasing viewership, there’s a lot they can do IMO. They need to do away with this ‘Chase’ crap and go back to the way it used to be long ago. If one driver runs away with points then that’s how it goes. But at least the true best car/driver/team will win the championship and not someone that had a mediocre season but just got hot at the right time (Tony Stewart, anyone?).

They also need to do away with rain-shortened races. Figure out a way to complete the damn race! If you got to stay in town a day or two later, so be it! Put them damn rain tires on if you have to. But don’t end these races with some scrub guessing right on when the race will be called and staying out on the track at the right time. Absolutely lame!

Lastly, I hate restrictor-plate racing! There’s nothing worse than 30 cars all packed together and 1 car wrecks the entire field. Those races — specifically Daytona and Talledega — usually comes down to the luck of surviving wrecks and who teams up with whom the final lap. Too much luck involved. I want to see driving skill and pit strategy prevail.

I think that your last paragraph is the actual goal that NASCAR seeks to achieve. At the same time, it's part of what is driving people away from the sport. 

Constant changing of the rules intended to keep the cars even so that pit strategy and driving skill rule the roost. The problem being that the crew chiefs and shops are smart and always pushing the envelope. This leads to NASCAR constantly trying to stay ahead of the teams.

 

[HSFBfan]

Reasons why the place had so many empty seats. Starting with 300 dollar a night hotels

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/heres-why-nascar-bristol-race-had-so-many-empty-seats.amp

[HawgGoneIt]

8 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

Reasons why the place had so many empty seats. Starting with 300 dollar a night hotels

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/heres-why-nascar-bristol-race-had-so-many-empty-seats.amp

This has become an issue as well. 

Up until a couple of years ago, Daytona was forcing you to buy a 3 or 4 day pass to even consider getting seats for the 500. 

Alright, this costed around 800 bucks per person for half decent seats.

Go check hotel prices for decent hotels in Daytona and the surrounding areas. The prices adjust as the week rolls on. Thursday night for the rooms I used to get at Ormond Beach was 139. Friday 179. Saturday 169. Sunday 139. 

That shit adds up and prices many out of being able to go. 

Back in the day, you could buy the race tickets for each day all separate.