NJ student gets into all 8 ivies....obvious question

[waltwhitman]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/04/us/teen-ivy-league-trnd/index.html

they reference the last couple to do this amazing accomplishment.....but after you read article and look at the previous people.....can a white student get into all 8?  probably not a chance in hell......which is sad for any student......why is that?

[Belly Bob]

40 minutes ago, waltwhitman said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/04/us/teen-ivy-league-trnd/index.html

they reference the last couple to do this amazing accomplishment.....but after you read article and look at the previous people.....can a white student get into all 8?  probably not a chance in hell......which is sad for any student......why is that?

The odds are even longer for an Asian student.

I think it's a well-established fact that holding fixed GPA's and SAT scores (or their equivalent), black students are more likely to get admitted than students of any other race; then Hispanic-but-not-white students; then white students; then Asian students.

The justification that the universities give is that they evaluate applicants "holistically", which means not just in terms of GPAs and SAT scores, and that one of their missions is to create a diverse and inclusive community.

The community at Harvard (say) wouldn't be very diverse or inclusive if the overwhelming majority of its students were either Asian or white. 

If you think that's sad, you should make a case for it, since presumably the policy makers at the Ivy Leagues aren't stupid, even if they might be wrong. 

 

[Horsefly]

9 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

The odds are even longer for an Asian student.

I think it's a well-established fact that holding fixed GPA's and SAT scores (or their equivalent), black students are more likely to get admitted than students of any other race; then Hispanic-but-not-white students; then white students; then Asian students.

The justification that the universities give is that they evaluate applicants "holistically", which means not just in terms of GPAs and SAT scores, and that one of their missions is to create a diverse and inclusive community.

The community at Harvard (say) wouldn't be very diverse or inclusive if the overwhelming majority of their students were either Asian or white. 

 

The common denominator between these students is not that they were black, but they were immigrants.  African students, especially Ebo Nigerians, perform quite well on standardized tests such as ACTs and SATs.

[Belly Bob]

Just now, Horsefly said:

The common denominator between these students is not that they were black, but they were immigrants.  African students, especially Ebo Nigerians, perform quite well on standardized tests such as ACTs and SATs.

Does this count against anything I said? 

[Horsefly]

7 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

Does this count against anything I said? 

Yes it does, these african students aren't being accepted on some marginalized basis.  They are high achievers and more importantly they are not American.

 

http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/06/10/could-african-americans-learn-from-high-scoring-african-students/

http://mgafrica.com/article/2015-10-13-it-isnt-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-us-africans-do-better-than-them

[Belly Bob]

2 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Yes it does, these african students aren't being accepted on some marginalized basis.  They are high achievers and more importantly they are not American.

 

http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/06/10/could-african-americans-learn-from-high-scoring-african-students/

I didn't make a claim about those African students. 

[Horsefly]

3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I didn't make a claim about those African students. 

"I think it's a well-established fact that holding fixed GPA's and SAT scores (or their equivalent), black students are more likely to get admitted than students of any other race..."

 

 

[SOCIntellectualProperty]

I don't think it's 'sad' at all

 

in fact it's one of the few attempts in this country's educational structure aimed at some sort of fairness

 

It would be stupid to hold most black kids to the same educational standards as others, considering the piss poor schools they often attend during grade school.

 

Urban schools, which by large and large are black schools, often  are not meant to educate ... they're setup to condition a permanent underclass

 

[Belly Bob]

Just now, Horsefly said:

"I think it's a well-established fact that holding fixed GPA's and SAT scores (or their equivalent), black students are more likely to get admitted than students of any other race..."

I thought that the universities themselves made that clear in response to all the recent lawsuits filed against them. 

[Belly Bob]

3 minutes ago, SOCIntellectualProperty said:

I don't think it's 'sad' at all

 

in fact it's one of the few attempts in this country's educational structure aimed at some sort of fairness

 

It would be stupid to hold most black kids to the same educational standards as others, considering the piss poor schools they often attend during grade school.

 

Urban schools, which by large and large are black schools, often  are not meant to educate ... they're setup to condition a permanent underclass

 

I think that's a plausible view and explains what is motivating current admissions policies at the Ivy League schools and universities in the US in general. 

[ScarletKnightsFan]

In America....the obvious question is whether her parents pulled strings to get her in. Afterall.....Jared Kushner was a C student in high school who got into Harvard after his dad made a $2.5 million donation, and then got in at NYU after a multi-milliom dollar gift. Perhaps her parents did the same. We all know the way John Kerry, Bush, McCain  etc.. all managed to translate their C averages in high schook into admittance into amazing schools. Seems weird to be discussing how an A students with nearly perfect SAT'S got in.

[concha]

I'd like to know the academic results and graduation rates for students benefiting from so-called "affirmative action".

Is it wise to throw students into highly competitive environments they simply are not prepared for?

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/

[concha]

22 minutes ago, SOCIntellectualProperty said:

 

Urban schools, which by large and large are black schools, often  are not meant to educate ... they're setup to condition a permanent underclass

 

I agree.

Remind us... who runs those schools?

[aZjimbo]

31 minutes ago, concha said:

I agree.

Remind us... who runs those schools?

Dare I say?

[concha]

Just now, aZjimbo said:

Dare I say?

Trump, of course.

[Belly Bob]

37 minutes ago, concha said:

I'd like to know the academic results and graduation rates for students benefiting from so-called "affirmative action".

Is it wise to throw students into highly competitive environments they simply are not prepared for?

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-painful-truth-about-affirmative-action/263122/

Right. 

It's a complicated topic.

Click here for more: http://www.heritage.org/civil-rights/report/dubious-expediency-how-race-preferential-admissions-policies-campus-hurt

Data from law schools (which are far less protected than data from undergraduate institutions) show that black students on average are admitted with lower GPAs and LSAT scores than non-black students, perform at the bottom 10 percent of their class in their first year of law school, and do even worse on average by graduation, if they make it that far.

The upshot is that there are serious questions about whether affirmative action admissions policies even help those they are supposed to help. 

If someone isn't prepared for serious academic work, you're probably not doing them any favors by throwing them into a classroom with a bunch of people who are prepared.

It's a tough topic. 

[concha]

11 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

Right. 

It's a complicated topic.

 

I doubt it is.

I think it's simply yet another one where liberals let feel-good social justice emotion rule the day over "think about it for a moment" common-effin'-sense.

[Belly Bob]

8 minutes ago, concha said:

I doubt it is.

I think it's simply yet another one where liberals let feel-good emotion rule the day over "think about it for a moment" common-fucking-sense.

I doubt it.

I think that the Justices of the Supreme Court are a pretty thoughtful group.

And they've recently voted 4-3 to uphold affirmative action admissions policies in an important case involving UT Austin. 

Maybe there are important differences between undergraduate admissions policies and law school admissions policies.

But the fact that Yale has been destroying its admissions records in light of all the recent lawsuits probably doesn't bode well for current admissions practices.

That seems like a bad-faith move. 

[concha]

Just now, Belly Bob said:

I doubt it.

I think the Justices of the Supreme Court are a pretty thoughtful group.

And they've recently voted 4-3 to uphold affirmative action admissions policies in an important case involving the UT Austin. 

Maybe there are important differences between undergraduate admissions policies and law school admissions policies.

But the fact that Yale has been destroying its admissions records in light of all the recent lawsuits probably doesn't bode well for current admissions policies. 

SCOTUS judgments are not determined by efficacy.

Legality and constitutionality have little to do with whether or not something makes sense or will actually work.

[Belly Bob]

1 minute ago, concha said:

SCOTUS judgments are not determined by efficacy.

Legality and constitutionality have little to do with whether or not something makes sense or will actually work.

That's a good point. I didn't think of that. 

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

I applied to an Ivy League.... lol.... I thought maybe I had a shot at Dartmouth or Penn.... 

Failed.... the only college I got accepted into that had an Acceptance rate under 50% was UNC but I didnt have the money. And I had only applied to test the waters....  

As far as education goes: I'll say this. 

Everybody has a different level of drive to learn. I did better than some of the Asians at my HS. We had like 4 or 5 African kids in my Graduating Class... I never really talked to em but I do know one of them is at Duke. 

I graduated with a 3.6 gpa. 

I had no motivation prior to my Sophomore  year.  It took alot to convince me that I needed to get my shot together. 

And a lot of lectures from mrs.Nguyen.... She might as well have been my mom. She rode my ass like I was one of her kids... 

But thats besides the point. 

Rather you be Black,White,Asian or Hispanic. You can learn. The decision is left up to you. 

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

I'll tell you this from personal experience. 

Ive seen it myself. Despite the color of your skin especially now adays  people get bitter when they hear about anyone getting into an Ivy League. 

And for good reason its a double edge sword. 

1. Getting accepted into an Ivy league is a Hard thing to do. A Very Hard thing to do. And when people hear about someone getting accepted they get a bit bitter. Because it makes them feel inferior. Why? These colleges are Prestigous,Expensive and have a reputation for not accepting anyone.  If you get in the notion of "You must be better than me" gets thrown at the person who got acvepted. 

 

2. The Acceptee. Again Ive seen this. When people get accepted they get Swollen heads. My senior year there was a girl named Sarah who got accepted into Yale  she wasnt the only one to go to an Ivy league but she was the 1st to get accepted. She started talking down to people. Me included.... she began to gain a sense of Superiority as of she was better than us. 

Someone knocked her down a notch when they got into Brown.

 

[Bormio]

Hopefully the person in question gets a decent education - not a guarantee at an Ivy League school.  Probably will be taught how unjust America is.

[noonereal]

6 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

Right. 

It's a complicated topic.

Click here for more: http://www.heritage.org/civil-rights/report/dubious-expediency-how-race-preferential-admissions-policies-campus-hurt

Data from law schools (which are far less protected than data from undergraduate institutions) show that black students on average are admitted with lower GPAs and LSAT scores than non-black students, perform at the bottom 10 percent of their class in their first year of law school, and do even worse on average by graduation, if they make it that far.

The upshot is that there are serious questions about whether affirmative action admissions policies even help those they are supposed to help. 

If someone isn't prepared for serious academic work, you're probably not doing them any favors by throwing them into a classroom with a bunch of people who are prepared.

It's a tough topic. 

and how do whites and Asians, admitted with lower test scores than blacks do? 

[Horsefly]

16 minutes ago, Bormio said:

Hopefully the person in question gets a decent education - not a guarantee at an Ivy League school.  Probably will be taught how unjust America is.

Nothing wrong with hearing opposing views in an academic setting.  One does not have to be indoctrinated into any particular ideology just bc a professor speaks it.