NJ student gets into all 8 ivies....obvious question

[noonereal]

4 hours ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

I'll tell you this from personal experience. 

Ive seen it myself. Despite the color of your skin especially now adays  people get bitter when they hear about anyone getting into an Ivy League. 

And for good reason its a double edge sword. 

1. Getting accepted into an Ivy league is a Hard thing to do. A Very Hard thing to do. And when people hear about someone getting accepted they get a bit bitter. Because it makes them feel inferior. Why? These colleges are Prestigous,Expensive and have a reputation for not accepting anyone.  If you get in the notion of "You must be better than me" gets thrown at the person who got acvepted. 

 

2. The Acceptee. Again Ive seen this. When people get accepted they get Swollen heads. My senior year there was a girl named Sarah who got accepted into Yale  she wasnt the only one to go to an Ivy league but she was the 1st to get accepted. She started talking down to people. Me included.... she began to gain a sense of Superiority as of she was better than us. 

Someone knocked her down a notch when they got into Brown.

 

swelled head syndrome is common in all facets of life when parents have engaged in daddyball. Yes, daddyball is not confined to sport. Band, dance, sport, academics.... 

In fact, it is the exception when someone accomplished in any field does not contract this syndrome. 

I will add however that part of the uniqueness of this syndrome is the paradox  where those of lesser achievement perceive it  when it is not present. 

Basically, what we are dealing with are humans, a failed species. 

 

[Bormio]

7 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Nothing wrong with hearing opposing views in an academic setting.  One does not have to be indoctrinated into any particular ideology just bc a professor speaks it.

Tell that to those who clamor for "safe spaces".  It is all one way on most college campuses - especially the "elite" ones.

[noonereal]

5 minutes ago, Bormio said:

Tell that to those who clamor for "safe spaces".  It is all one way on most college campuses - especially the "elite" ones.

what is this safe space you are obsessed with? 

I have a 21 year old D,senior in college and I don't know what a safe place is. 

Thanks, concerned dad here

[concha]

Fellow posters, please join me in commending nooner on the great courage he displays on here each and every day. Not everyone has the courage to admit and advertise their colossal ignorance and cluelessness as he does.

 

 

[maxchoboian]

8 hours ago, SOCIntellectualProperty said:

 

 

Urban schools, which by large and large are black schools, often  are not meant to educate ... they're setup to condition a permanent underclass

 

I'm curious what this means, or perhaps an example to help me understand how the urban schools are doing this.

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, noonereal said:

and how do whites and Asians, admitted with lower test scores than blacks do? 

I'm not sure.

But if I'm understanding the recent lawsuits and controversy over admissions policies correctly, then there aren't many white students -- and even fewer Asians -- who are admitted with significantly lower test scores than black students. 

But I'd guess that the ones who are do worse in school on average than black students with better scores, assuming the difference in scores is significant. 

A recent lawsuit claims that data shows that Asian students, on average, have to score 450 points higher than a black student to have the same chance of being admitted. 

http://www.newsweek.com/do-ivys-discriminate-against-asian-americans-471962

That's a very significant difference. 

[TheRealCAJ]

9 minutes ago, concha said:

Fellow posters, please join me in commending nooner on the great courage he displays on here each and every day. Not everyone has the courage to admit and advertise their colossal ignorance and cluelessness as he does.

 

 

Never seen anyone try SO hard to be SO different.

Noonereal, has mastered it. 

 

 

[noonereal]

25 minutes ago, concha said:

Fellow posters, please join me in commending nooner on the great courage he displays on here each and every day. Not everyone has the courage to admit and advertise their colossal ignorance and cluelessness as he does.

 

 

I'd say you do pretty damned well too!

Peace my round, blockheaded friend!

 

[Horsefly]

8 hours ago, concha said:

I agree.

Remind us... who runs those schools?

Not sure where you want to go with this but the ISD runs the school district with state level oversight.  So it's clearly a bipartisan effort here in Texas.

[concha]

28 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Not sure where you want to go with this but the ISD runs the school district with state level oversight.  So it's clearly a bipartisan effort here in Texas.

Direct control is local government and the teacher's unions.

 

[Horsefly]

20 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

Diversity, political correctness,reverse discrimination all are at play here....However, nobody saw her grades,her composition, family contacts or political influence.. May not be enough info to form or state a definitive position..Her appearance however is not from the hood ....

You say no one knows her scores, interviews and essays but yet claim reverse discrimination and PC are at play here.  that's a very illogical conclusion. 

[Horsefly]

 

8 minutes ago, concha said:

Direct control is local government and the teacher's unions.

 

we don't have teacher collective bargaining in Texas, so unions are not significant here.  and control is school districts and strong state oversight  through state testing and subject teaching objectives.  

Edited April 5, 2017 by Horsefly

[Horsefly]

7 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

No, as a Mich female proved it in court....Its fact if you read that about 90% of college professors and administrators are leftists, if someone from the right wants to speak on campus,riots break out..Come on, wake up and smell the coffee.. My post was spot on and because you don't agree,it's wrong...I say no,Iam right and you are wrong...

 

 

 

 

What does that have to do with admission standards?  Absolutely nothing!  This young lady being admitted to ivy leagues does not mean PC and reverse discrimination are at play. You just stated you don't have any insight into her admission package.

[Horsefly]

6 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

The political correctness and reverse discrimination are at play, yes,but if we knew her grades,composition etc.that may not be the case...Maybe I was not clear...But I still think you understood my post...and I was right too.

You don't even need to bring up PC and reverse discrimination if you don't know her scores.  Some black students are accepted on competitive merit alone.  AA is not a factor in their case.

[Horsefly]

14 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

Do you live near Ft Hood ??

What does that have to do with anything?

[Nolebull813]

This diversity fad is actually a lot more harmful than helpful 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/13/ny-dropping-teacher-literacy-test-amid-claims-racism.amp.html

[Horsefly]

16 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

This diversity fad is actually a lot more harmful than helpful 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/13/ny-dropping-teacher-literacy-test-amid-claims-racism.amp.html

That's an issue NY needs to work out but is not a reason why diversity is blatantly harmful. 

Thats a poorly written article BTW, no assessment or breakdown between state level testing results and teacher performance nor do they discuss overall teacher certification requirements in NY.  Is this a part of it, were there other factors to certification discussed, etc.?

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

I'm not sure.

But if I'm understanding the recent lawsuits and controversy over admissions policies correctly, then there aren't many white students -- and even fewer Asians -- who are admitted with significantly lower test scores than black students. 

But I'd guess that the ones who are do worse in school on average than black students with better scores, assuming the difference in scores is significant. 

A recent lawsuit claims that data shows that Asian students, on average, have to score 450 points higher than a black student to have the same chance of being admitted. 

http://www.newsweek.com/do-ivys-discriminate-against-asian-americans-471962

That's a very significant difference. 

I'll tell ya this.... alot of schools bank to much on these test scores. 

Yea Theyre a good indicator. But theyre not the do all be all of a student. 

[rockinl]

Why does race have to be part of the admission forms?

Why not simply base it on merit and test scores?

If college A is admitting 500 new freshmen, barring criminal or discipline background problems, take the top 500. Isnt that the way a democracy is suppose to work?

[NYHSFAN33]

31 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

That's an issue NY needs to work out but is not a reason why diversity is blatantly harmful. 

Thats a poorly written article BTW, no assessment or breakdown between state level testing results and teacher performance nor do they discuss overall teacher certification requirements in NY.  Is this a part of it, were there other factors to certification discussed, etc.?

All NYS public school teachers require a masters degree and this test is a supplemental part of their incoming evaluation.  The test is being scrapped because minorities were not performing well and therefore complaining the test was "racially biased" despite the fact a Federal Judge ruled the test non-discriminatory.  The test is very standardized and not meant to play to any specific demographic.  This is pretty cut and dry.  Incoming minority teachers were scoring poorly, so the test was scrapped.  That simple.  If white teachers were scoring a 41% pass rate instead of their current 64% pass rate and tried to claim the test as racially biased I would like to see the reaction.  

[NYHSFAN33]

22 minutes ago, rockinl said:

Why does race have to be part of the admission forms?

Why not simply base it on merit and test scores?

If college A is admitting 500 new freshmen, barring criminal or discipline background problems, take the top 500. Isnt that the way a democracy is suppose to work?

I agree, but these days that is a pipe dream.  If by chance you did not have enough minority students in that 500 student incoming class, you would be deemed a racist.  Sad but true fact.

[rockinl]

Just now, NYHSFAN33 said:

All NYS public school teachers require a masters degree and this test is a supplemental part of their incoming evaluation.  The test is being scrapped because minorities were not performing well and therefore complaining the test was "racially biased" despite the fact a Federal Judge ruled the test non-discriminatory.  The test is very standardized and not meant to play to any specific demographic.  This is pretty cut and dry.  Incoming minority teachers were scoring poorly, so the test was scrapped.  That simple.  If white teachers were scoring a 41% pass rate instead of their current 64% pass rate and tried to claim the test as racially biased I would like to see the reaction.  

How is  (ab)+(ab)= ........racially biased?

Or how is "What is the atomic symbol for salt"???? Are their ears different from mine? They sat in the same classroom and heard the same teacher as the kids who do well on the test.

 

Its a cop out because the people using that excuse really know there is, and has been a problem in majority, minority inner city schools. Its just another way to not accept responsibility for your life/actions.

They dont like to admit it because too many people like to attach those failures to all people of color...and I see that point also. But, it is what it is.

 

And I'll agree with Concha's previous post....look at the local school boards and local politicians, who have been running those schools for years, and tell me what has improved in the past 40 years?

Public school teachers unions? Mehhh...they dont wield nearly the power they once did. 

Thats where you will usually find the problem and corruption.

 

Racism does exist. But not accepting mediocrity or failing grades has ZERO to do with racism.

[Horsefly]

27 minutes ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

All NYS public school teachers require a masters degree and this test is a supplemental part of their incoming evaluation.  The test is being scrapped because minorities were not performing well and therefore complaining the test was "racially biased" despite the fact a Federal Judge ruled the test non-discriminatory.  The test is very standardized and not meant to play to any specific demographic.  This is pretty cut and dry.  Incoming minority teachers were scoring poorly, so the test was scrapped.  That simple.  If white teachers were scoring a 41% pass rate instead of their current 64% pass rate and tried to claim the test as racially biased I would like to see the reaction.  

Whites are not the subgroup so performing poorly on the test would not be racial bias, they would argue test ineffectiveness as a measure of overall ability.

My question is absent of this test what other certification requirements are they looking at?  Surely it's more than having a masters degree.  If you don't know that's fine.  I'm really trying to go beyond the hype of the article and see what else is being considered as options

[Horsefly]

38 minutes ago, rockinl said:

How is  (ab)+(ab)= ........racially biased?

Or how is "What is the atomic symbol for salt"???? Are their ears different from mine? They sat in the same classroom and heard the same teacher as the kids who do well on the test.

 

Its a cop out because the people using that excuse really know there is, and has been a problem in majority, minority inner city schools. Its just another way to not accept responsibility for your life/actions.

They dont like to admit it because too many people like to attach those failures to all people of color...and I see that point also. But, it is what it is.

 

And I'll agree with Concha's previous post....look at the local school boards and local politicians, who have been running those schools for years, and tell me what has improved in the past 40 years?

Public school teachers unions? Mehhh...they dont wield nearly the power they once did. 

Thats where you will usually find the problem and corruption.

 

Racism does exist. But not accepting mediocrity or failing grades has ZERO to do with racism.

I can't speak for NY, but in Texas it's difficult to claim racial bias as certification classes are and can be taken to improve proficiency which levels the playing field.

Overall it's difficult to claim racial bias on an academic test for those with advanced degrees.  Having a degree one would think the proficiency gap would be closed.  That's my .02.  

[Nolebull813]

49 minutes ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

All NYS public school teachers require a masters degree and this test is a supplemental part of their incoming evaluation.  The test is being scrapped because minorities were not performing well and therefore complaining the test was "racially biased" despite the fact a Federal Judge ruled the test non-discriminatory.  The test is very standardized and not meant to play to any specific demographic.  This is pretty cut and dry.  Incoming minority teachers were scoring poorly, so the test was scrapped.  That simple.  If white teachers were scoring a 41% pass rate instead of their current 64% pass rate and tried to claim the test as racially biased I would like to see the reaction.  

It should be illegal under anti-discriminations laws to take less qualified people based  on infusing a company with politically correct diversity. 

These tactics can directly lead to economic calamity based on less qualified people doing less qualifed work causing the efficiency in the company to suffer. 

This is very irresponsible