If the #1 team stayed together through the college years...

[westbankeagle]

8 minutes ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

No chance.  Even the most recruited up transfer all star teams don’t have the depth of talent to field a high level FBS team.  Think rationally about the logistics and numbers involved.

You must have not read the original post.

[NYHSFAN33]

12 minutes ago, westbankeagle said:

You must have not read the original post.

“If the top national program each year, for funzies, stayed together another 4-5 years, could that team win an FCS conference, or maybe even a G5 conference”

The above is what the original post said.  To my understanding, that would imply dropping, say MD, SJB, STA, etc roster into the NCAA and have them stay together for 4 years on the D-1 level.  I am saying there is no way they would win a conference due to lack of talent depth across the board, especially sticking with the original roster and not adding talent through recruiting.  If I misinterpreted anything please clarify.

[westbankeagle]

25 minutes ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

No chance.  Even the most recruited up transfer all star teams don’t have the depth of talent to field a high level FBS team.  Think rationally about the logistics and numbers involved.

The original post makes no reference to high level FBS teams.

[NYHSFAN33]

Just now, westbankeagle said:

The original post makes no reference to high level FBS teams.

Ok, my opinion still stands from my next post:

“I am saying there is no way they would win a conference due to lack of talent depth across the board, especially sticking with the original roster and not adding talent through recruiting.”

[westbankeagle]

Just now, NYHSFAN33 said:

Ok, my opinion still stands from my next post:

“I am saying there is no way they would win a conference due to lack of talent depth across the board, especially sticking with the original roster and not adding talent through recruiting.”

That's fine. I would disagree as I had pointed out, a team like MD would be working with 16 4-5 star athletes and enough 3 stars to fill starting positions while many FCS programs would be fielding teams that are starting 2 stars and worse.

[Pops]

36 minutes ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

No chance.  Even the most recruited up transfer all star teams don’t have the depth of talent to field a high level FBS team.  Think rationally about the logistics and numbers involved.

If you think rationally, what’s wrong with what @Cat_Scratch just posted — STA has 12 NFL players from 2010-2014.  Not many colleges could say that over same period.

and, those STA teams weren’t nearly as loaded as today’s IMG, md, SJB, SFA, or sjc teams.  Heck, this STA team is ridiculously more loaded than any of their 2010-2014 teams and they’re considered a notch below the others 

Washington, my favorite college team, won Pac12 and made the playoffs a couple of years ago with a roster whose top recruit wouldn’t have been a top 10 player on these hs teams 

List IMGs players from the last 5 years and tell me how many better college rosters you’d find — maybe Alabama or Clemson, maybe not 

[NYHSFAN33]

3 minutes ago, Pops said:

If you think rationally, what’s wrong with what @Cat_Scratch just posted — STA has 12 NFL players from 2010-2014.  Not many colleges could say that over same period.

and, those STA teams weren’t nearly as loaded as today’s IMG, md, SJB, SFA, or sjc teams.  Heck, this STA team is ridiculously more loaded than any of their 2010-2014 teams and they’re considered a notch below the others 

Washington, my favorite college team, won Pac12 and made the playoffs a couple of years ago with a roster whose top recruit wouldn’t have been a top 10 player on these hs teams 

List IMGs players from the last 5 years and tell me how many better college rosters you’d find — maybe Alabama or Clemson, maybe not 

You are going against NCAA rosters with a ton more depth and the ability to add talent through recruiting over the 4 year period.  Also, stars are out the window when you step on the field at the next level.  A highly recruited HS player doesnt automatically equal a high performing NCAA player.  I don’t think winning a conference is even a question worth asking to be honest. but to each their own with regards to opinions on this.

[westbankeagle]

1 minute ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

You are going against NCAA rosters with a ton more depth and the ability to add talent through recruiting over the 4 year period.  Also, stars are out the window when you step on the field at the next level.  A highly recruited HS player doesnt automatically equal a high performing NCAA player.  I don’t think winning a conference is even a question worth asking to be honest. but to each their own with regards to opinions on this.

The stars don't count trope has been debunked many times. You are significantly more likely to contribute as a 4 or 5 star player than as a 3 star or less. It just seems like 3 stars outperform because they have so many of them they are everywhere, but the truth is higher rated players are more likely to stay impact players.

[NYHSFAN33]

Drop this roster from the national champions 4 years ago into any NCAA conference.....what is your prediction on their record?

 

https://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/bishop-gorman-gaels-(las-vegas,nv)/football-fall-14/roster.htm

[westbankeagle]

1 minute ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

Drop this roster from the national champions 4 years ago into any NCAA conference.....what is your prediction on their record?

 

https://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/bishop-gorman-gaels-(las-vegas,nv)/football-fall-14/roster.htm

MEAC and SWAC 12-0. I'd have DLS and Allen over them that year though, both of whom I believe won MNCs.

[NYHSFAN33]

1 minute ago, westbankeagle said:

The stars don't count trope has been debunked many times. You are significantly more likely to contribute as a 4 or 5 star player than as a 3 star or less. It just seems like 3 stars outperform because they have so many of them they are everywhere, but the truth is higher rated players are more likely to stay impact players.

That’s nice, but doesn’t really change the scenario at all.  We are not tallying recruits over a 4 year period like the STA example posed earlier. We are talking about taking an existing roster on a 1 year snapshot and dropping them into the NCAA over a 4 year period, not cherry picking the best recruits from a school over a 4 year period and making a team out of them.  Will be my last post on the topic, but there is no team that I would even consider to be remotely a D-1 conference title contender under these circumstances.

[Texasball]

2 hours ago, RedZone said:

If Clemson or Alabama stayed together for 4 or 5 years could they beat the NOLA Saints or New England Patriots?

Oh Hell no.

This is first post in this thread that had any common sense.

the answer is no but hell no for beating any power 5 teams.

hell some some these ranked players will be bust at the next level.

[NYHSFAN33]

Just now, westbankeagle said:

MEAC and SWAC 12-0. I'd have DLS and Allen over them that year though, both of whom I believe won MNCs.

Your opinion is noted, I just happen to disagree and think you are overvaluing them big time.  Good talk either way.

[westbankeagle]

Just now, Texasball said:

This is first post in this thread that had any common sense.

the answer is no but hell no for beating any power 5 teams.

hell some some these ranked players will be bust at the next level.

Man, you might have common sense but poor reading skills. I never said anything about P5. You drinking tonight?

[Texasball]

3 minutes ago, westbankeagle said:

Man, you might have common sense but poor reading skills. I never said anything about P5. You drinking tonight?

not tonight -  I never said you did.

[westbankeagle]

13 minutes ago, Texasball said:

 

the answer is no but hell no for beating any power 5 teams.

You just talking to yourself then? haha

[Texasball]

10 minutes ago, westbankeagle said:

You just talking to yourself then? haha

No -,I just thought he made good post.  

[Texasball]

I do believe some the best High School teams could beat some smaller colleges.

however, I would take the best of the D3 schools and whip the best High Schools - IMHO 

[Cossacks]

45 minutes ago, westbankeagle said:

That's fine. I would disagree as I had pointed out, a team like MD would be working with 16 4-5 star athletes and enough 3 stars to fill starting positions while many FCS programs would be fielding teams that are starting 2 stars and worse.

But the huge drop off is where it would just be brutal. The rest of MD’s roster is still just HS players, who would end up getting pounded.

 

33 minutes ago, westbankeagle said:

MEAC and SWAC 12-0. I'd have DLS and Allen over them that year though, both of whom I believe won MNCs.

DLS had 2 way players, you can’t do that even at the Juco level. Hell Ive seen some second team DLS players go in due to injury and you see a big drop off and that’s against HS teams. Allen would be the same and they have had more depth. I don’t know if if they would complete a 10 game season in those leagues. Grambing / Southern etc is nowhere like lining up against SJB and Desoto. It’s just a whole other level.

 

[golfaddict1]

4 hours ago, westbankeagle said:

If the top national program each year, for funzies, stayed together another 4-5 years, could that team win an FCS conference, or maybe even a G5 conference? 

QB and the lines are going to be the biggest problem...  whether it's Santa Margarita's line with Stanton or IMG's best in history on OL or DL or say 2011 DBP  DL... all it takes is one injury to the QB or a key lineman and all bets are off and that's HS.  I was for the Stanton rule with DJ lol.   

Chandler and Corona Centennial played gutsy vs. IMG with backup QB's in recent years (maybe same year?), but when their starters went down it was over.   IMG had two fbs recruit QB's a few years back and one struggled, while the other didn't.  Had the Polish slinger had to come in and play vs a college squad of choice or conference I dunno...  it's a fun thought.   He'd have some time to get better.  Depth is a concern here at QB, OL especially and if one key star goes down adios.   Say a Joey Bosa sits out, not good.   A very healthy squad with a superb coaching staff and weight training program... maybe but gotta be very healthy.  

If you consider 3 consecutive recruiting seasons addition to a school from say 2009 through 2011 for a DBP or STA or a 3 year period of choice for DLS, BG, Allen, SJB,  recent MD,  IMG recent 3 years... I defer to the OH brethren but man the size of some of the OH guys with speed?   3 years of recruits?  Sure, I'd entertain that discussion as there is more depth and you can move excess  talent from one position to another.   

[Texasvic]

You people really underestimate how talented even fcs kids/teams are. The answer is no. A top hs team wouldnt even win an fcs conference. Going d1 is not easy. 

[Pops]

1 hour ago, Texasvic said:

You people really underestimate how talented even fcs kids/teams are. The answer is no. A top hs team wouldnt even win an fcs conference. Going d1 is not easy. 

You understand we're not talking about a hs team playing a college team, right?

If so, your post doesn't seem to make sense.  We're talking about teams that send as many and as high of quality to the next level than most FBS teams have.

3 hours ago, golfaddict1 said:

Chandler and Corona Centennial played gutsy vs. IMG with backup QB's in recent years (maybe same year?), but when their starters went down it was over. 

You're picking exceptions to make your point.  Example -- CC had 3 starting FBS starting QBs at same time a few years ago and one was a Heisman candidate.  And that was pre-super teams (although they weren't all necessarily homegrown either)

[Pops]

4 hours ago, Texasball said:

I do believe some the best High School teams could beat some smaller colleges.

however, I would take the best of the D3 schools and whip the best High Schools - IMHO 

I played D3 and my team would have been running clocked by Mater Dei

Our lines were at least 40# less per man, our starting C was a tough Irish kid from Boston who weighed 175#

We had no one to stop their skill guys -- there were only a couple of guys on team noticeably faster than me and I ran a 4.8 downhill with wind

We did have a QB that got a tryout with the Broncos and a 1-armed RB that led nation in punt returns and got a USFL tryout, but most D3 teams are unrecruited players that are drawn from student bodies smaller than most TX big high schools -- btw, obviously not as good as D2, but also not NAIA, which is most comparable to D2 in football (I played both those levels as well thru 1 transfer and 1 reclassification)

And, btw, my D3 team went 2-0 vs TX colleges so it's not like D3 is superior in TX

[Pops]

5 hours ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

You are going against NCAA rosters with a ton more depth and the ability to add talent through recruiting over the 4 year period.  

Here's some notables from MD's last 4 classes.  Most colleges use 5th year players, but 

QB                    JT Daniels 5* (USC)                          Bryce Young 5* (USC)

RB                     Dollars 4* (Oregon)                           Lamarche 2* (ASU)

WR.                   St Brown 5* (USC)                             St. Brown 4* (Stanford)

WR                    McCoy 5* (Texas)                              Huffman-Dixon 3* (Colorado)

WR                   Nikko Remigio 4* (Cal).                     Parks 3* (UCLA)  

TE                   Martinez 4* (UCLA)

OL                   Chris Murray 4* (UCLA)                      Nichola Delaqua 2* (Navy)

OL                   Murao 4* (Washington)                      Gonzales 2* (Boise St)

OL                   Felix-Fualalo 3* (Utah)                        Colinchak 2* (Army)

OL                   Brown 4* (Alabama)                            Marks 3* (uncommitted)

OL                   Ueli-Faat..... 3* (uncommitted)

DE                   Fauliu 2* (Oregon)

DT                    Bennett 3* (Oregon St)                    Faalie 3* (Oregon)

DT                    Ware-Hudson 4* (Oregon).              Tupe 3* (uncommitted)

DE                    Funa 4* (Oregon)

LB                    Faave 3* (Washington St.)                White 2* (Penn)

LB.                   Tuiliaupupu 4* (USC)                       McCleery 2* (Montana St)

LB                    Fuamatu 3* (uncommitted)

DB                     Nimo 3* (UCLA)  

DB                     Cridell 4* (Oklahoma)                   Cole 3* (Montana St)

DB                    Ricks 5* (LSU)                                 Bell 3* (Arizona)

DB                   Lake 3* (UCLA)                                Kafentzis 2* (Boise St)

K                      McGrath 2* (USC)                              Stonehouse 2* (Colorado St)

 

Notable Reserves beyond 2-deep

RB Harper 2* (Cal-Poly)

WR Epps 3* (uncommitted)

DT Samuel Tualamaka 2* (OK St)

DT Nathan Logolea 2* (UTEP)

K.  Lopez (Cal)

Depth could be an issue, but there's not many teams that can top this 2-deep list and, again, MD probably wasn't best team (although I did like them having 2 5* QBs).

 

5 hours ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

Also, stars are out the window when you step on the field at the next level.  A highly recruited HS player doesnt automatically equal a high performing NCAA player.  

I agree with your point about stars, but why would this differentiate the hypotheticals?  The stars on the hsfb team you're referring to are the ones that matriculate to Alabama, Clemson, Ohio St., etc.  Those schools don't just dump them and replace them if they're not as advertised.

 

5 hours ago, NYHSFAN33 said:

I don’t think winning a conference is even a question worth asking to be honest. but to each their own with regards to opinions on this.

I don't think it's a hypothetical that you can dispute if you've given it some thought, but to each his own.

[nptb17]

2 hours ago, Pops said:

I played D3 and my team would have been running clocked by Mater Dei

Our lines were at least 40# less per man, our starting C was a tough Irish kid from Boston who weighed 175#

We had no one to stop their skill guys -- there were only a couple of guys on team noticeably faster than me and I ran a 4.8 downhill with wind

We did have a QB that got a tryout with the Broncos and a 1-armed RB that led nation in punt returns and got a USFL tryout, but most D3 teams are unrecruited players that are drawn from student bodies smaller than most TX big high schools -- btw, obviously not as good as D2, but also not NAIA, which is most comparable to D2 in football (I played both those levels as well thru 1 transfer and 1 reclassification)

And, btw, my D3 team went 2-0 vs TX colleges so it's not like D3 is superior in TX

Your D3 team sucked donkey balls.