Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 The real reason Putin played a pussycat during the Trump presidency But it's far more likely he hoped for something very different. As Jonathan Last pointedly suggested on Tuesday in his newsletter for The Bulwark, Trump expressed his desire on numerous occasions for the United States to withdraw from NATO altogether. He did so while campaigning for president in 2016. He did so as president. And apparently, he even made clear to advisers he hoped to make it a reality after he won re-election in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 20 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:  He was the landlord collecting rent from deadbeat tenants. Laughably, concha thinks that's how you strengthen alliances. And yer argument, is deadbeats should win at the expense of everyone else... 💩  PS: yes... very laughable 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Reality Is a Tank And it’s not just the lotus-eating Europeans. George W. Bush and Barack Obama both got rolled by Putin. Donald Trump was practically Putin’s gofer. Our presidents were not alone. Much of Conservatism Inc. has become functionally pro-Russia. And much of the American foreign policy establishment decided that it could live in whatever reality it preferred. Their signal accomplishment was killing America’s two-war doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 But in the realm of foreign relations, Trump was entirely predictable. There was a simple playbook for foreign leaders: Flatter Trump, tell him what he wanted to hear, and he would roll over for you. Look at his love affair with Kim Jong-Un. Look at him giving Xi Jinping the go ahead for concentration camps just so long as he could have a trade “deal” to announce. Look at the Helsinki Summit, where he took Vladimir Putin’s side against his own intelligence apparatus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 So why is Putin pushing into Ukraine now? Not everything in the world is about Donald Trump and Putin has been playing a very long game. But if I had to guess what Trump’s influence on Putin was, I’d say: Putin realized that he could get much of he wanted from Trump for free. Trump was even talking about pulling out of NATO—which is Putin’s endgame. Why do anything that might jeopardize the free gifts Trump was giving him? On the other hand, once Biden came to power and it was clear that the relationship would be more adversarial, Putin figured that he might as well go on offense and take his lumps in pursuit of the strategic objectives that could only be achieved by force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 concha ignoring basic reality by pointing out window dressing or immaterial sanctions is as predictable as his dishonesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022  Keeping track of Andy's bullshit can be hard. Here's where I think we are: If you increase sanctions on Russia, you are a Putin puppet. If you call for NATO members to actually make an effort to be able to defend themselves and one another, you are a Putin puppet. If you try to influence Western Europe to not expose themselves to dependence on Russian/Evil-Putin natural gas, you are a Putin puppet. If you provide actual weaponry to the Ukraine, you are a Putin puppet. The folks who were in power when the Crimea was annexed, who pushed the embarrassing "Russia reset", who sanctioned Putin LESS than Trump, who thought blankets were meaningful military aid for the Ukraine, whose foundation took millions from Russian oligarchs, who paid for and pushed a Russian disinformation dossier, who gave the OK for the Russian gas pipeline, and who are currently in power as Putin invades the Ukraine etc etc are the tough ones and are NOT - repeat NOT - Russian puppets. Black unemployment is somehow relevant and Andy did NOT bring up Trump and blacks first in this thread even though he fucking did.  Feel free to add anything I've missed.    Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, concha said: Keeping track of Andy's bullshit can be hard. You mean objective reality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, concha said: If you increase sanctions on Russia, you are a Putin puppet. No, it's just not sufficient to prove that you aren't. In other words, an American President doing his job to a minimal level is necessary but not sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 concha is utterly bereft of new ideas or new arguments. Everything he's said about Trump and Putin is demonstrably false and his defenses are pathetic. He will continue to pound two of three weak points while ignoring everything that I've cited. He will continue to perpetuate the whopper of a claim that Trump strengthened NATO by almost destroying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, concha said: Black unemployment is somehow relevant and Andy did NOT bring up Trump and blacks first in this thread even though he fucking did. You lied about it. Just admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, concha said: Feel free to add anything I've missed. You missed that you're a toady who will now ignore everything that I cited because it's inconvenient to your narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022  So Andy posts (3 times!) from some guy who calls Trump a name and provides literally zero examples of a tangible benefit Trump provided Putin. Not one.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: No, it's just not sufficient to prove that you aren't. In other words, an American President doing his job to a minimal level is necessary but not sufficient.  Classic Andy. He'll grab one point, isolate it, and then act like you didn't say anything else. Bush league. 🤡  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Since such a withdrawal is Putin's fondest wish, it makes far greater sense to suppose his relative restraint during the Trump presidency was a function of a reasonable expectation he might get everything he wanted without having to fire a shot. Only now, with a less … unorthodox American president in charge, has war become Putin's only means of advancing his more immediate aim of ensuring NATO moves no closer to Russian territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, concha said: So Andy posts (3 times!) from some guy who calls Trump a name and provides literally zero examples of a tangible benefit Trump provided Putin. Not one. I've literally linked a half dozen articles that you've ignored or pretended don't exist. It must be hard work being a deaf, blind and dumb toady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: You missed that you're a toady who will now ignore everything that I cited because it's inconvenient to your narrative. Â Andy has literally been able to point to NOTHING tangible. His best is that Trump offended NATO members who weren't pulling their weight. Laughable. Even then he had to lie about some bullshit about it being only abut rent. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, concha said: He'll grab one point, isolate it, and then act like you didn't say anything else. Everything you say is either a lie or a toadyism. You've repeated the sanctions thing about a zillion times. You have no other move and can't respond to every counter to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, concha said: Andy has literally been able to point to NOTHING tangible. I said he would ignore everything I cited.....and he did. Ho-hum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, Atticus Finch said: I've literally linked a half dozen articles that you've ignored or pretended don't exist. It must be hard work being a deaf, blind and dumb toady.  Andy still working on finding his first tangible benefit Putin got from Trump. Meanwhile he'd have us believe that Putin did not want people who did LESS against Russia's interests. 🤡  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, concha said: Andy has literally been able to point to NOTHING tangible. Trump's own defense secretary claimed that Trump said he wanted to pull our of NATO in his second term. 👇 16 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: So why is Putin pushing into Ukraine now? Not everything in the world is about Donald Trump and Putin has been playing a very long game. But if I had to guess what Trump’s influence on Putin was, I’d say: Putin realized that he could get much of he wanted from Trump for free. Trump was even talking about pulling out of NATO—which is Putin’s endgame. Why do anything that might jeopardize the free gifts Trump was giving him? On the other hand, once Biden came to power and it was clear that the relationship would be more adversarial, Putin figured that he might as well go on offense and take his lumps in pursuit of the strategic objectives that could only be achieved by force. Nothing tangible. 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Atticus Finch said: Everything you say is either a lie or a toadyism. You've repeated the sanctions thing about a zillion times. You have no other move and can't respond to every counter to it.  Others can read this. Happy to have them judge who's lying. We both know it's you.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, concha said: Andy still working on finding his first tangible benefit Putin got from Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 concha's blind toadyism never ceases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Putin didn't play nice guy from 2017 to 2020 because he was afraid of Donald Trump. He did so because he knew he had nothing to fear from the fanboy in the Oval Office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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