See this is what I'm talking about

[DarterBlue]

1 minute ago, Sportsnut said:

That is a simple one, fear.

They knew nothing else.

Where were they going to go and do?

In Jamaica, many freed slaves "captured land" (became squatters) in the interior of the island. As Jamaica was never populated by large numbers of white Europeans and had dense forestry (jungles) in the interior, these freed slaves were largely left alone even though they seized land that was not granted to them. With the passage of time some of them became self sufficient from this and were eventually granted deeds to their seized property. 

I guess in the USA, this would have been much more difficult to accomplish. 

[RedZone]

14 minutes ago, DarterBlue said:

But you are who you are, I suppose. 

 

Soon to be sleeping in a car in Alabama. 

Ok, not really all that funny. BUT he said it.

 

I think if I was the kid I would worry more about my own game plan/current situation and quit trying to get forum attention. 

 

[Horsefly]

25 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

I can understand that.  But what is the point?  Imo it's similiar to asking what the benefits are of having public executions in the town square.  It may have an argument for deference but it's not ever going to happen.  

 

It's for developing their critical thinking skills in considering positions that they wouldn't normally take.  You have to set aside biases and dig a little deeper for understanding than normal.  

[DarterBlue]

4 minutes ago, RedZone said:

Soon to be sleeping in a car in Alabama. 

Ok, not really all that funny. BUT he said it.

 

I think if I was the kid I would worry more about my own game plan/current situation and quit trying to get forum attention. 

 

He is not a happy young man. It shows in his posts. I am not sure why. But he needs to learn that his life is in his hands to make what he can of it.

Once he does this, and I hope he is able, then he may find that happiness, or at least a degree of contentment, will find him. 

[World Citizen]

Just now, Horsefly said:

It's for developing their critical thinking skills in considering positions that they wouldn't normally take.  

Or wouldn't ever take.  I hear ya but thinking on something you would never do seems a waste considering all the topics available.  

[Horsefly]

4 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

Or wouldn't ever take.  I hear ya but thinking on something you would never do seems a waste considering all the topics available.  

If I were a teacher I'd do it on most topics we discussed. ( this of course if my hands were tied in meeting other state mandates, like standardized tests)   Like I said this should not have been her first attempt at this.  The more controversial, the better.  Looking at wars from the other countries view, etc.

[AztecPadre]

2 hours ago, HSFBfan said:

From a stand point of economics it keep the southern states going. There was not a lot of industrial employment like in the  north. So cotton picking and such kept the southern goods in production. For others that had no education it gave them a job. And at the end of the civil war there were slaves that went back to their masters because they did have a good life. You only hear about the owners who abused their slaves. Another downfall of an open discussion. We hear all the time why the southern states are downtrodden today. Well you can thank Lincoln for taking away the southern way of life back in 1865. Now do I believe slavery was going to end sooner then later yes I do but Lincoln sped up that process and it led to a disastrous period called reconstruction. 

Gave them a job? You do know the difference between a job and slavery? PAY!!!

[Hardcore Troubador]

1 hour ago, Horsefly said:

It's for developing their critical thinking skills in considering positions that they wouldn't normally take.  You have to set aside biases and dig a little deeper for understanding than normal.  

Why did the German people vote for the Nazis in 1933/why was Versailles a bad treaty, what was the Russian motivation for putting missiles in Cuba, why did the Iranians vote for Mossadegh, in the 1950s, etc.?

All good questions.  

I think my initial incredulity was because we all know the OP wasn’t simply lamenting the failure to properly present an academic thought experiment in a school...

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

1 hour ago, Sportsnut said:

That is a simple one, fear.

They knew nothing else.

Where were they going to go and do?

You’re enslaved by the “stupidity” circuit in your mind. 

You need to get out, and stop worrying about the utility bill. 

[Horsefly]

19 minutes ago, Hardcore Troubador said:

Why did the German people vote for the Nazis in 1933/why was Versailles a bad treaty, what was the Russian motivation for putting missiles in Cuba, why did the Iranians vote for Mossadegh, in the 1950s, etc.?

All good questions.  

I think my initial incredulity was because we all know the OP wasn’t simply lamenting the failure to properly present an academic thought experiment in a school...

This is also probably true

[GloryDays]

I'd like to debate the benefits of kicking @HSFBfan in the nuts.

 

Every morning.

 

It would be a truly enjoyable start for the day, and could lead to a more productive lifestyle.

 

Any negative effects to the nuts of @HSFBfan should be discounted as truly inconsequential to my lifestyle.

 

[RedZone]

I don't remember hsfb being this unhappy when Obama was the President.

Must take time for that #winning to truly kick in for some.

[NorCalRuss]

3 hours ago, DarterBlue said:

To those that owned slaves there were positives. They made a larger profit than they would have had they employed free labor.

As one who has some ancestors who were slaves, albeit in Jamaica and not the USA,  I find the whole idea of discussing whether those ancestors benefited from slavery to be morally repugnant. think about this for a second: if I owned you like a dog or cat, even if I was as kind as some pet owners are to their pets, could you justify my ownership? Even if you did not hate me for ownership of you, could you ever really see me as an equal human being? 

When you can give me an honest, well thought out answer to the above, ask the question again. To be honest, I find it deeply disturbing that you keep bringing up the topic. But you are who you are, I suppose. 

Slavery needs to be left in the past. The country needs to move on.

Agree either what you say here but why don’t you say it to others that continue to bring it up in a daily basis? 

 

[DarterBlue]

16 minutes ago, NorCalRuss said:

Agree either what you say here but why don’t you say it to others that continue to bring it up in a daily basis? 

 

I assume that you are referring to my last paragraph, "Slavery needs to be left in the past. The county needs to move on."

If so, I have explained to Sports Nut on more than one occasion why I feel he spends too much time on black/white topics. With that said, I have never jumped on him over it. Why? To me he seems to be carrying a lot of hurt over real or perceived slights he has experienced over the course of his life. I did not grow up in the South. In fact, I spent most of my formative years on an island that is majority black. So, I am reluctant to jump on him over what some may think is his obsession for the simple reason that my life's experiences have probably differed significantly from his.

Now if he were to make outrageous posts, such as suggesting he would like to enslave white people (or brown or yellow, or red or ___), I would be the first to call him out on it.  

[noonereal]

6 hours ago, DarterBlue said:

he seems to be carrying a lot of hurt over real or perceived slights

QFT

[HawgGoneIt]

12 hours ago, DarterBlue said:

In Jamaica, many freed slaves "captured land" (became squatters) in the interior of the island. As Jamaica was never populated by large numbers of white Europeans and had dense forestry (jungles) in the interior, these freed slaves were largely left alone even though they seized land that was not granted to them. With the passage of time some of them became self sufficient from this and were eventually granted deeds to their seized property. 

I guess in the USA, this would have been much more difficult to accomplish. 

 

Many tried to do that here. They returned and tried to lay claim to parcels of land belonging to the former slave owners. At the time. the more liberal republican party tried to pass legislation to award them this reparation, but it was not passed because the conservative party outvoted them, and the squatters were forced to leave or sharecrop in order to pay rent for the property they were living on. 

One has to wonder what these conversations may be about today had the ex-slaves been granted these small parcels of land. 

[HSFBfan]

11 hours ago, Hardcore Troubador said:

Why did the German people vote for the Nazis in 1933/why was Versailles a bad treaty, what was the Russian motivation for putting missiles in Cuba, why did the Iranians vote for Mossadegh, in the 1950s, etc.?

All good questions.  

I think my initial incredulity was because we all know the OP wasn’t simply lamenting the failure to properly present an academic thought experiment in a school...

The Treaty of Versailles indirectly led to Hitler being in power. Germany was a military power that was decimated by the allies by the treaty. Hitler was a WW1 vet for germany. He was a message runner in the trenches If you think about 1 bullet in ww1 and we would never have seen ww2. But Hitler jumped on the fact that Germany was left for dead and he got the people of Germany to rally around that message. The people of Germany were also looking for someone to blame and Hitler gave them the Jewish people.

See I love this stuff. Fascinating

[HSFBfan]

12 hours ago, Horsefly said:

It's for developing their critical thinking skills in considering positions that they wouldn't normally take.  You have to set aside biases and dig a little deeper for understanding than normal.  

bingo. school is supposed to make you think. not just go with the narrative.

[RedZone]

4 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

bingo. school is supposed to make you think. not just go with the narrative.

 

 

[HawgGoneIt]

My teachers, at public schools in a few different states, all did afford me the ability to think and question. Which I damned sure did a good bit of. 

Not sure what schools people are going to that don't allow or encourage that, but, I'm thinking it may be a problem with the student rather than the school because my experiences in public schools in Oklahoma, Texas, Florida and Georgia never forced me into a narrative without allowing free thought and the ability to question. I remember seeing the glow in many of my teachers eyes when I did question what they were teaching and ask for more information. 

#teacherspet

 

[HSFBfan]

1 minute ago, HawgGoneIt said:

My teachers, at public schools in a few different states, all did afford me the ability to think and question. Which I damned sure did a good bit of. 

Not sure what schools people are going to that don't allow or encourage that, but, I'm thinking it may be a problem with the student rather than the school because my experiences in public schools in Oklahoma, Texas, Florida and Georgia never forced me into a narrative without allowing free thought and the ability to question. I remember seeing the glow in many of my teachers eyes when I did question what they were teaching and ask for more information. 

#teacherspet

 

This article clearly shows that when a teacher gives an open debate kind of homework it is immediately shot down

[HawgGoneIt]

1 minute ago, HSFBfan said:

This article clearly shows that when a teacher gives an open debate kind of homework it is immediately shot down

I think there is a difference between allowing an "open" debate and allowing or encouraging a student to question. 

Open debate leads to people dropping the N-bomb and the like. 

Better to moderate the stuff in a school or other place of learning. 

[HawgGoneIt]

Also, I tried to click the link and read the article but for some reason all I get is the T-Mobile news homepage. 

I think I have an understanding just from the link title though. 

 

I'll bite sorta.

Outside of separating the races both economically and socially, and extremely elevating one over the other both economically and socially, what do you see as the positives of slavery in America? 

[HSFBfan]

13 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I think there is a difference between allowing an "open" debate and allowing or encouraging a student to question. 

Open debate leads to people dropping the N-bomb and the like. 

Better to moderate the stuff in a school or other place of learning. 

Shouldnt get to that point if the teacher is good at their job. The teacher is supposed to moderate the conversation and end it if he/she feels it is going in a direction that is not warranted.  Teachers do not it seems like have the ability to get on top of a conversation and so they would rather dictate the conversation rather than have opinions going around the conversation.

I know some people on the board are not ok with having this discussion and that is up to them to feel that way but conversations like this one, nazis, internment of the japanese etc etc can be had. I saw an article where a teacher was teaching slavery and made the black kids the part of the slaves and of course got backlash for it. Well hello if your teaching slavery in America who were the slaves blacks. It is facts. Teachers are not making this up. If were going to talk European slavery than talk about the british and them making India and Northern Ireland and Scotland part of their empire. Its just sad to see history being shunned because people are so sensitive

[HawgGoneIt]

7 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

Shouldnt get to that point if the teacher is good at their job. The teacher is supposed to moderate the conversation and end it if he/she feels it is going in a direction that is not warranted.  Teachers do not it seems like have the ability to get on top of a conversation and so they would rather dictate the conversation rather than have opinions going around the conversation.

I know some people on the board are not ok with having this discussion and that is up to them to feel that way but conversations like this one, nazis, internment of the japanese etc etc can be had. I saw an article where a teacher was teaching slavery and made the black kids the part of the slaves and of course got backlash for it. Well hello if your teaching slavery in America who were the slaves blacks. It is facts. Teachers are not making this up. If were going to talk European slavery than talk about the british and them making India and Northern Ireland and Scotland part of their empire. Its just sad to see history being shunned because people are so sensitive

 

Idk. 

I think as a society we do have to expunge some things from us. If we allow students to "side up" in an open debate like the ones you suggest, there is no way the teacher could be able to control the interactions and either animosity or love that each side of the debate feels for the other. 

We can learn about these things without driving each other into corners in a debate in the classroom. 

 

 

 

Do you not see a negative to making the black kids in a classroom be slaves for a discussion? Wouldn't that belittle these students in the face of their counterparts? 

I'd think something more than backlash is deserved in that situation.