golfaddict1 Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, Pops said: You were rambling a bit so not sure what your main point was How about 3 pollsters choosing Allen ahead of SJB. Care to engage in AZ's rating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 Speaking of 2013, state scale ratings from Freeman (top 50 teams in state reminder) top 50... NJ #6, GA #7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 2 hours ago, golfaddict1 said: How about 3 pollsters choosing Allen ahead of SJB. Care to engage in AZ's rating? Am not understanding relevance of allen — I acknowledged them as deserving — maybe pollsters didn’t think SJB would beat DLS (DLS was going for the 5th state championship in a row in 2013 by MOV of 14, 40, 35, and 20). Point being that SJBs best work was December and BtWs was September and the September team will always wind up ahead with humans who tend to have about 500% more rigid ness in their poll from week to week AZ’s ratings? Are you talking this preseason rankings? I haven’t even looked at it and don’t intend to — this is checking the casserole with an hour to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Pops said: Am not understanding relevance of allen AZ’s ratings? Are you talking this preseason rankings? I haven’t even looked at it and don’t intend to — this is checking the casserole with an hour to go You go out of your way to mention BTW, but Allen had SJB 3 for 3 w pollsters. Just reminding you while you mention how great SJB was that 3 veteran pollsters felt otherwise. BTW finished 4th in CP that year and beat Bishop Gorman in Oct. Couldn’t hurt to actually have an oos game in a mnc resume also. Just saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 4 hours ago, golfaddict1 said: 2016 AZ goes 7-5 OOS rated #13 by Freeman, 2017 AZ goes 6-5 OOS and is rated #29. AZ's slide is what based on Saguaro only? Lol. I suppose Chandler spanking MNW and Cen10 beating STA showed state weakness? Mountain Pointe lost to two AZ teams as well as Chaminade, CA. What am I missing here? It's not just AR. Freeman is doing some weird stuff with his new OOS state scale analysis tool tinkering. Here you go Pops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 14 hours ago, golfaddict1 said: Speaking of 2013, state scale ratings from Freeman (top 50 teams in state reminder) top 50... NJ #6, GA #7 Was that the year after or before DJ had 11 Louisiana teams in top 100? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 11 hours ago, golfaddict1 said: Here you go Pops... Missing some info to evaluate (ie maybe the gap between #13 and #29 is less than the gap between #1 and #5) however, my point is this is irrelevant to a degree — all you detractors are glass half empty guys regarding CP — “state scaling!!!” Or “they named a CA team MNC” or some other such horror but when I ask for a better, less fallible source or alternative, it’s like cockroaches when the light turns on talk about their the tinkering, sure, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water echs would rather be the authority on rankings but he’s exhibit A on the flawed pollster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 15 hours ago, Columbiafan said: How many times do i have to repeat this Just because calpreps released rankings before anyone else has don't mean they are actually good and just because they only ones with preseason rankings out don't mean the rankings are good I could have do a preseason rankings for 2019 right now and it would be the only one out Does that mean my rankings are good just because no others are out there? You highlighted in my post that I had asked to name a better ranking and all you did was tell me you could do better? ........ next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Pops said: You highlighted in my post that I had asked to name a better ranking and all you did was tell me you could do better? ........ next Are you bloody brain damaged I couldn't name any poll because no other poll has been released this early because only a moron releases a poll at the beginning of may That is before a spring games have been played That is before any of the summer transfer season has happened That is way before rosters are locked in during August and you actually can see what a team really has Again just because no one else is stupid enough to put a poll out this early doesn't mean this poll has any credibility and only reason you're defending the poll is because it makes California look good, but guess what when these teams get exposed in the season it's going to make the state look like a joke This poll will blow up in your face, probably when you all have to play Bishop Gorman (outside top 100) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Columbiafan said: Are you bloody brain damaged I couldn't name any poll because no other poll has been released this early because only a moron releases a poll at the beginning of may That is before a spring games have been played That is before any of the summer transfer season has happened That is way before rosters are locked in during August and you actually can see what a team really has Again just because no one else is stupid enough to put a poll out this early doesn't mean this poll has any credibility and only reason you're defending the poll is because it makes California look good, but guess what when these teams get exposed in the season it's going to make the state look like a joke This poll will blow up in your face, probably when you all have to play Bishop Gorman (outside top 100) I’m embarrassed for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, Pops said: I’m embarrassed for you The board is embarrassed for you and your failed boxing career 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaximumHornetSting Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Columbiafan said: Are you bloody brain damaged I couldn't name any poll because no other poll has been released this early because only a moron releases a poll at the beginning of may That is before a spring games have been played That is before any of the summer transfer season has happened That is way before rosters are locked in during August and you actually can see what a team really has Again just because no one else is stupid enough to put a poll out this early doesn't mean this poll has any credibility and only reason you're defending the poll is because it makes California look good, but guess what when these teams get exposed in the season it's going to make the state look like a joke This poll will blow up in your face, probably when you all have to play Bishop Gorman (outside top 100) It's pops brain damaged is an understatement 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Columbiafan said: The board is embarrassed for you and your failed boxing career How long was the bus you rode to school I’m feeling a little guilty bless your heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, Pops said: How long was the bus you rode to school I’m feeling a little guilty bless your heart Been graduated for a while now And if all you gonna do is troll then go ahead and block me because I have better things to do then argue with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFORDGAWOLVES Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Columbiafan said: The board is embarrassed for you and your failed boxing career Pops got popped too many times. Punch drunk. Bobbing and weaving all over dang place. And Pops fought girls. Here's Pops in a failed comeback bid.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 9 hours ago, Pops said: Was that the year after or before DJ had 11 Louisiana teams in top 100? Ha, good memory... I recall it was a high number. Well you think Freeman gets abuse here? DJ was transparent (right or wrong) as he explained his rankings and took many body blows and head shots... especially during the 2011 DBP fiasco. In 2017 we have Arkansas displaced strangely and odd shifts in state scales year to year (AZ example and I'm sure if I care to dig I'd find others, which affects the overall look and numbers of ranked teams nationally in a rating system with a necessary base scale to make the algorithm function) based on Freeman's footprint choices. Not sure why you think I want to discredit it or throw it away... I want it to improve and the fact that Freeman is still tinkering with the rating system shows he's not comfortable yet either. Imo, his latest sensitive state scale moves based on such little OOS data interaction is flawed and unfortunately he adjusted every year back with this new rating system. I used to do an annual steady as she goes school list based on Calpreps criteria for fun... showing steady and dominant teams. I tried to use criteria to eliminate state supremacy and it worked as I had many state reps included. There is some very cool stuff on Calpreps, but not digging his latest tinker and I try to share examples. I don't agree with viewing Calpreps Oct. 1 either. Imo, it's too soon as some teams are still working off the preseason data specs. I think Nov. 1st is probably safer and sure at year's end it looks solid from a top 25 perspective for the most part (AR again odd with 2 teams in top 14) It sure better. It's the full look overall with his state scale adjustments that's noticeable by nuts like me. That's where the novelty of the predict a matchup tool becomes less interesting... novelty coolness A+ though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 9 hours ago, Pops said: Missing some info to evaluate (ie maybe the gap between #13 and #29 is less than the gap between #1 and #5) however, my point is this is irrelevant to a degree — all you detractors are glass half empty guys regarding CP — “state scaling!!!” Or “they named a CA team MNC” or some other such horror but when I ask for a better, less fallible source or alternative, it’s like cockroaches when the light turns on talk about their the tinkering, sure, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water echs would rather be the authority on rankings but he’s exhibit A on the flawed pollster I highlight the forum poll here vs. the rest overall. I'll take a compilation poll first I suppose and it doesn't need 8 total lol, but hey I wanted to have all sources included. In the end, there's not going to be much difference by the end of the year in a top 25 but fyi if you care to see the forum poll and the avg of the 8 polls in (). The goal for the forum poll was to have geographical participation and then work out a rank based on ranks from region voting and go from there... but ended up being about 10 voters and less by the end of the year... but I think a good group and more importantly enough participants to dilute an odd ranking placement. Not ideal, but it's 6-10 opnions vs. 1 in Freeman. As much as he wants to project distance, it's his gig and his rating rules. Massey and Fisher's algorithm won't be identical. There's criteria differences for each one. The 8 polls were 5 human and 3 algorithms to comprise the () ranking/rating #'s. http://calpreps.com/2017/ratings/National_all25.htm For comparison if anyone cares... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pops Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 52 minutes ago, golfaddict1 said: I highlight the forum poll here vs. the rest overall. I'll take a compilation poll first I suppose and it doesn't need 8 total lol, but hey I wanted to have all sources included. In the end, there's not going to be much difference by the end of the year in a top 25 but fyi if you care to see the forum pol and the avg of the 8 polls in (). The goal was to have geographical participation and then work out a rank based on ranks from region voting. Ended up being about 10 voters and less by the end of the year... but I think a good group and more importantly enough participants to dilute an odd ranking placement. Not ideal, but it's 6-10 opnions vs. 1 in Freeman. As much as he wants to project distance, it's his gig and his rating rules. Massey and Fisher's algorithm won't be identical. There's criteria differences for each one (the 8 polls by the way were 5 human and 3 algorithms to comprise the () ranking/rating #'s. I agree that the comp poll is the most reliable/ best i had a lot of reservations about the user poll — you think echs is an objective observer? i wouldn’t Call CP an “opinion” — he doesn’t decide rankings from week to week, the #s are the #s (I get that he designed the algorithm which is not the same thing to me and remarkably comes up with about the same top 10 as human polls which do best at 1-10, and then start rapidly diminishing comparative perspective after that and it’s pretty well gone after top 100. Transitive logic says Freeman does as well or better for 14,000+ as humans do for 25 or 50 JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Pops said: i had a lot of reservations about the user poll — you think echs is an objective observer? I can try to answer any ?’s or concerns . Echs wasn’t a voter and you could say we had a compilation poll format as unpopular choices couldn’t work alone. i wouldn’t Call CP an “opinion” — he doesn’t decide rankings from week to week, the #s are the #s (I get that he designed the algorithm which is not the same thing to me and remarkably comes up with about the same top 10 as human polls which do best at 1-10, and then start rapidly diminishing comparative perspective after that and it’s pretty well gone after top 100. Transitive logic says Freeman does as well or better for 14,000+ as humans do for 25 or 50 I can’t stress this enough but Freeman’s personal footprint affects national ratings. I saw CP had 5 from AR in the top 100, 6 in top 108. Fisher’s HSFBA algorithm had 2 (53 and 71). That differs from 7 and 14 and 3 additional. 2 hours ago, Pops said: JMHO As it should be . I’d like to see the forum poll improve as well as Freeman’s. Why settle? Why not have constructive criticism... it’s all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFORDGAWOLVES Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Pops said: I agree that the comp poll is the most reliable/ best i had a lot of reservations about the user poll — you think echs is an objective observer? i wouldn’t Call CP an “opinion” — he doesn’t decide rankings from week to week, the #s are the #s (I get that he designed the algorithm which is not the same thing to me and remarkably comes up with about the same top 10 as human polls which do best at 1-10, and then start rapidly diminishing comparative perspective after that and it’s pretty well gone after top 100. Transitive logic says Freeman does as well or better for 14,000+ as humans do for 25 or 50 JMHO CP is not an opinion, but it’s just your humble opinion. Too many blows to the head, Poopy 💩 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 On 5/9/2018 at 11:22 AM, golfaddict1 said: Well done Classic flick. Starz has a western movies classic channel and I'm digging it. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly may well be the best all around western of all time. Definitely one of my favorites. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 1 hour ago, HawgGoneIt said: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly may well be the best all around western of all time. Definitely one of my favorites. Lee Van Cleef was a badass in the westerns. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 Recent 3 year analysis with 14 states I noticed worth mentioning, whether it be variance or a trend of moving up or down. This is not an opinion of state rank post, just peeling the onion on 14 states from 2015 thru 2017... I will add in Freeman's 2017 state scale order, starting with Georgia and ending with Massachusetts. First, some quick notes on % of pts garnered by the top 5 states and top 10 states trend, then pizza and beer and back to the 14. Seems Freeman is creating some separation slowly between the top states and the rest of the pack. What this means in 2017 is that if you check state ratings well beyond top 25, a higher % will be from the top 5 and top 10 states vs. previous years... not by much mind you, but a little trend I felt like checking. 2015: top 5 19%, top 10 35% 2016: top 5 20%, top 10 36% 2017: top 5 22%, top 10 39% top 50 teams in-state avg. rated Georgia - 44 (7), 47.8 (6), 50.4 (5) ... trending up Illinois - 48.5 (5), 50.2 (4), 43.2 (6)... trending down, '16 to '17 fairly steeply pts wise Arkansas - 32.3 (30), 33 (25), 42.5 (7)... trending up, very steep rise '16 to '17 Pennsylvania - 44.4 (6), 43.7 (7), 40.7 (8)... trending down Michigan - 38.3 (17), 37.5 (13), 39.7 (9)...trending up by rating annually, not so much pts wise movement Missouri - 39.6 (11), 34.8 (21), 38.5 (10)... trending up back to '15 level, '16 variance NJ - 43.5 (8), 41.6 (8), 36.5 (15)... trending down from '16 with a decent variance NY - 39.2 (13), 34 (24), 36.2 (16)... trending up from '16 after a decent decline in '15 Alabama - 40.3 (10), 38.2 (12), 34.5 (19)... trending down Tennessee - 39.5 (12), 36.9 (15), 33.5 (21)... trending down Indiana - 37.8 (20), 38.3 (10), 32 (23)... trending down from '16 with a decent variance Oklahoma - 38.7 (16), 36.6 (17), 30.1 (25)... trending down from '16 with a decent variance Arizona - 33.5 (27), 37.5 (13), 27.7 (29)... trending down back to '15 level ratings wise, '17 pts decline Massachusetts - 36.6 (22), 34.3 (23), 25.1 (31)... trending down, '17 with a decent points variance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1DayPGA Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 18 hours ago, golfaddict1 said: Lee Van Cleef was a badass in the westerns. All 3 actors were perfect for their role. I thought Eli Wallach who played Tuco was the most entertaining. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 31 minutes ago, 1DayPGA said: All 3 actors were perfect for their role. I thought Eli Wallach who played Tuco was the most entertaining. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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