2018 Tier Placement - Final

[Sammyswordsman]

7 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

If you look on calpreps Longview and highland park are very close on SOS and results to similarly ranked opponents.  

Yes.  That is why both of them are together in Tier 3.

[Horsefly]

2 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Yes.  That is why both of them are together in Tier 3.

You must have just added them. 

[Sammyswordsman]

Tier 1 - Mater Dei, IMG,  SJB,  NorthShore (TX),  Duncanville,

Tier 2 -    Allen, DLS, Cen10,  St. Louis (Hi),   St. Edwards, Archbishop Hoban, Lakeland (Fla),  Colerain, Miami Central, Carol City,  STA, SFA, SJC, SJP, Highland Park (Tx), Longview Tx

Tier 3 -     Mentor (OH), Aledo, Milton,  Chandler (Az),  Colquitt County, Katy,  DeMatha, Gonzaga,  Rockwall Tx.  Jserra, Jokes, Massilon OH, Christopher Columbus FLA, St. Iggy, Warren Central, 

Tier 4 -    SJR,  Mandarin Fla, Hillgrove Ga, Folsom, Christian Brothers, Centennial (AZ), Parkview, Trinity Christian, Columbia FL, Deerfield Beach, ULAB, John Curtis  Northwestern,  Blessed Trinity, Archer, Bishop Gorman

Tier 5 -    Hoover,  Good Council,   Lincoln Way East,  Blessed Trinity,  Mission Viejo, Warner Robbins Ga,  Lee County Ga, Bergen Catholic,   Robert E Lee,  AHP, Grayson, Cathedral Catholic, Loyola Academy, Pinnacle AZ,  Venice, North Little Rock

Tier 6 -      Bingham, Walton,   De Paul,  Cass Tech (MI),  Muskegon (MI),   Tift,   Pick Central, SPP,  Wekivia (Fl) ,  Cartersville, Rome, West Monroe, Hillgrove GA, Lowndes,  Elder, Jenks

*teams will not be considered to be in a Tier until they score a point ( if they have played a game).

Below is an explanation of the Methodolgy used to place the teams on various Tiers.  The Tier concept recognizes that W/L records are a function of quality of opponent, and as such, RELEVANCY of opponent MUST be factored in.  The Tiers recognizes that in some cases, a 10-0 team (ranked in Top 100 by some outlets) could get blown off the field by a 5-5 (unranked) team that played a tougher schedule.  This is why the Tiers was created.

 

*Not attempting to rank every team, only the ones we discuss on this site.

* The Tiers are fluid and subject to extreme fluctuations early in the year, leveling out as the year progresses.

*Tier placements consider a teams entire body of work, however are weighted heaviest on recent games and game weights decrease in significance in reverse order.  In other words, early road OOS losses to relevant teams can be overcome as the season progresses.

*Teams placed on the same Tier can compete with other same Tier teams and possibly win 2+ of 10. 

*Basically there is a -10 point drop between tiers.  Could vary from a TD to 3 scores depending on the styles of teams playing.  This does not necessarily mean that there is a 30 point difference between Tier 1 and Tier 3, only that the chances of a Tier 3 team beating a Tier 1 team are exponentially less than the chances of a Tier 2 Team beating a Tier 1 team.

*It is possible for a team to lose by 10+ to a team on their same Tier, and still be 10+ points better than teams on the next lowest Tier.

*The Tiers will ultimately be made up of (16) teams per Tier that would form competitive playoff brackets.

*Texas teams generally have not played enough OOS games to gauge properly #crapshoot.  There must be a daisy chain OOS connection for a reference point.  Teams with no OOS daisy chain connection may not be placed on a Tier.  (Texas exempt)

*Tiers are based on exhaustive research, Multiple games watched, and good gut feelings.

*This is a crowd sourced rating. All input will be considered and adjustments will be made as appropriate

[THEOC89]

Excellent Job @Sammyswordsman!!!...The TIERS are Awesome!!!.... Appreciate all the effort you put into this!, And Especially listening to all of our “Gyrations”!!....🤣🤣

Happy Holidays My Friend!!!.... 🙂

[Yard Dart]

On 12/18/2018 at 11:28 AM, Sammyswordsman said:

Lone star also played Highland Park in a tight 10-7 game, so they are good.  Longview played one of the tougher Texas schedules to date and managed to survive.  Winning multiple close games. 

LOL  Longview played three class 5A teams, and an average team from La. in non-District.    That is NOT a tough schedule, and one reason why I had doubts about LV all season long.  They had one quality win in the regular season...against Rockwall.

This is why I have doubts about your Tiers:

Longview 36, BWB 35 (1 point win over a team that lost to NS 55-7)

BWB 49, Katy Tompkins 45 (4 point win over a team that was 0-9 last year)

Katy 66, Katy Tompkins 13 (53 point win, with Katy's reserves playing the entire 4th quarter)

And yet, Longview and Katy are BOTH Tier 3?  That makes no sense, Sammy.  Either LV is Tier 4, or Katy is Tier 2.  Which is it?

 

EDIT:  I see you moved LV to Tier 2.  Priceless.

[Sammyswordsman]

2 hours ago, Yard Dart said:

LOL  Longview played three class 5A teams, and an average team from La. in non-District.    That is NOT a tough schedule, and one reason why I had doubts about LV all season long.  They had one quality win in the regular season...against Rockwall.

This is why I have doubts about your Tiers:

Longview 36, BWB 35 (1 point win over a team that lost to NS 55-7)

BWB 49, Katy Tompkins 45 (4 point win over a team that was 0-9 last year)

Katy 66, Katy Tompkins 13 (53 point win, with Katy's reserves playing the entire 4th quarter)

And yet, Longview and Katy are BOTH Tier 3?  That makes no sense, Sammy.  Either LV is Tier 4, or Katy is Tier 2.  Which is it?

 

EDIT:  I see you moved LV to Tier 2.  Priceless.

Katy has a case for Tier 2 but which one of the 16 teams currently in tier 2 would you take out?

[Pops]

10 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Tier 1 - Mater Dei, IMG,  SJB,  NorthShore (TX),  Duncanville,

Tier 2 -    Allen, DLS, Cen10,  St. Louis (Hi),   St. Edwards, Archbishop Hoban, Lakeland (Fla),  Colerain, Miami Central, Carol City,  STA, SFA, SJC, SJP, Highland Park (Tx), Longview Tx

Tier 3 -     Mentor (OH), Aledo, Milton, Aledo, Chandler (Az),  Colquitt County, Katy,  DeMatha, Gonzaga,  Rockwall Tx.  Jserra, Jokes, Massilon OH, Christopher Columbus FLA, St. Iggy, Warren Central

Tier 4 -    SJR,  Mandarin Fla, Hillgrove Ga, Folsom, Christian Brothers, Centennial (AZ), Parkview, Trinity Christian, Columbia FL, Deerfield Beach, ULAB, John Curtis  Northwestern,  Blessed Trinity, Archer, Bishop Gorman

Tier 5 -    Hoover,  Good Council,   Lincoln Way East,  Blessed Trinity,  Mission Viejo, Warner Robbins Ga,  Lee County Ga, Bergen Catholic,   Robert E Lee,  AHP, Grayson, Cathedral Catholic, Loyola Academy, Pinnacle AZ,  Venice, North Little Rock

Tier 6 -      Bingham, Walton,   De Paul,  Cass Tech (MI),  Muskegon (MI),   Tift,   Pick Central, SPP,  Wekivia (Fl) ,  Cartersville, Rome, West Monroe, Hillgrove GA, Lowndes,  Elder, Jenks

*teams will not be considered to be in a Tier until they score a point ( if they have played a game).

Below is an explanation of the Methodolgy used to place the teams on various Tiers.  The Tier concept recognizes that W/L records are a function of quality of opponent, and as such, RELEVANCY of opponent MUST be factored in.  The Tiers recognizes that in some cases, a 10-0 team (ranked in Top 100 by some outlets) could get blown off the field by a 5-5 (unranked) team that played a tougher schedule.  This is why the Tiers was created.

 

*Not attempting to rank every team, only the ones we discuss on this site.

* The Tiers are fluid and subject to extreme fluctuations early in the year, leveling out as the year progresses.

*Tier placements consider a teams entire body of work, however are weighted heaviest on recent games and game weights decrease in significance in reverse order.  In other words, early road OOS losses to relevant teams can be overcome as the season progresses.

*Teams placed on the same Tier can compete with other same Tier teams and possibly win 2+ of 10. 

*Basically there is a -10 point drop between tiers.  Could vary from a TD to 3 scores depending on the styles of teams playing.  This does not necessarily mean that there is a 30 point difference between Tier 1 and Tier 3, only that the chances of a Tier 3 team beating a Tier 1 team are exponentially less than the chances of a Tier 2 Team beating a Tier 1 team.

*It is possible for a team to lose by 10+ to a team on their same Tier, and still be 10+ points better than teams on the next lowest Tier.

*The Tiers will ultimately be made up of (16) teams per Tier that would form competitive playoff brackets.

*Texas teams generally have not played enough OOS games to gauge properly #crapshoot.  There must be a daisy chain OOS connection for a reference point.  Teams with no OOS daisy chain connection may not be placed on a Tier.  (Texas exempt)

*Tiers are based on exhaustive research, Multiple games watched, and good gut feelings.

*This is a crowd sourced rating. All input will be considered and adjustments will be made as appropriate

You’re not even credibly objective with oaks and JSerra on a higher tier than Folsom 

you can’t even justify them being on same tier but I would have let that pass with an eye roll — this is just obstinately gripping a losing position 

[Sammyswordsman]

7 minutes ago, Pops said:

You’re not even credibly objective with oaks and JSerra on a higher tier than Folsom 

you can’t even justify them being on same tier but I would have let that pass with an eye roll — this is just obstinately gripping a losing position 

Jokes has only 1 loss to SJB and a better win. By far 

[Pops]

3 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Jokes has only 1 loss to SJB and a better win. By far 

Whos their by far better win — beating a bunch of sophomores from a 600-something coed enrollment school in a Seattle suburb?  In their first game when oaks had already played a couple?

i would consider Folsom getting up 40 and pulling their starters in first half against a team that stayed within 2 TDs of Oaks twice to be fairly conclusive 

and Oaks beat JSerra 

And, by your logic, folsom only lost to DLS which Oaks wouldn’t beat in 10 chances so happy to just call both losses a wash 

[Sammyswordsman]

14 minutes ago, Pops said:

Whos their by far better win — beating a bunch of sophomores from a 600-something coed enrollment school in a Seattle suburb?  In their first game when oaks had already played a couple?

i would consider Folsom getting up 40 and pulling their starters in first half against a team that stayed within 2 TDs of Oaks twice to be fairly conclusive 

and Oaks beat JSerra 

And, by your logic, folsom only lost to DLS which Oaks wouldn’t beat in 10 chances so happy to just call both losses a wash 

Folsom also had a regulation tie vs a team Jokes most likely blows out 

[Pops]

2 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Folsom also had a regulation tie vs a team Jokes most likely blows out 

I don’t think a team that 4-7 chaminade stayed within 13 twice can be projected to blow out the best team in LA or San Diego 

thats akin to me saying oaks only beat JSerra by 1 and Folsom likely blows out JSerra 

tighten up 

[Sammyswordsman]

16 minutes ago, Pops said:

I don’t think a team that 4-7 chaminade stayed within 13 twice can be projected to blow out the best team in LA or San Diego 

thats akin to me saying oaks only beat JSerra by 1 and Folsom likely blows out JSerra 

tighten up 

Maybe someone else would drop Jokes a Tier for not choosing to run up the score any worse than 35-13 over patsy chaminade, but I’m not. 

DLS is notoriously weak in game 1 and especially this year with a soph QB.   Still they beat Folsom.  Even an average Bellermine team gave DLS a better game 

[On2whls]

39 minutes ago, Pops said:

i would consider Folsom getting up 40 and pulling their starters in first half against a team that stayed within 2 TDs of Oaks twice to be fairly conclusive 

What about Folsom having to fight back to OT against Cathedral.  I guess you’re going with the “they had a bad night” theory.

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

There's 2-4 teams I'd swap around and 1 I'd drop out entirely... 

But outside of that... 

Your tiers actually ironed themselves out as the year went on... 

I give it a 8.9/10... 

[hardhit1]

3 minutes ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

There's 2-4 teams I'd swap around and 1 I'd drop out entirely... 

But outside of that... 

Your tiers actually ironed themselves out as the year went on... 

I give it a 8.9/10... 

That’s like a 9 out of 10 

She’ s looking great 😆

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

22 minutes ago, hardhit1 said:

That’s like a 9 out of 10 

She’ s looking great 😆

Nah..

Can't let Sammy get a bigger head.... 

 

[Pops]

1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Maybe someone else would drop Jokes a Tier for not choosing to run up the score any worse than 35-13 over patsy chaminade, but I’m not. 

DLS is notoriously weak in game 1 and especially this year with a soph QB.   Still they beat Folsom.  Even an average Bellermine team gave DLS a better game 

You’re blatantly reaching 

1). If you choose to ignore the one one common opponent that clearly wasn’t in same stratosphere as Folsom and played Oaks tough TWICE (do you not want to normalize an ALLEGED top national team for also only beating a 4-7 patsy 22-7?)

2). You knew at game time that folsom gave DLS all they could handle and DLS proved they could play with SoCal’s top dog much, much better than oaks competed with the runner up 

this is a too easy arguement unless you want to continue to flavor the tiers with personal animus 

[Pops]

1 hour ago, On2whls said:

What about Folsom having to fight back to OT against Cathedral.  I guess you’re going with the “they had a bad night” theory.

Cathedral didn’t help Folsom’s case but it didn’t hurt them as the socal mob would ascribe 

in a game they were far less excited about than their opponent, they beat a team that is probably right next to Oaks in socal rankings 

[Sammyswordsman]

6 hours ago, Pops said:

You’re blatantly reaching 

1). If you choose to ignore the one one common opponent that clearly wasn’t in same stratosphere as Folsom and played Oaks tough TWICE (do you not want to normalize an ALLEGED top national team for also only beating a 4-7 patsy 22-7?)

2). You knew at game time that folsom gave DLS all they could handle and DLS proved they could play with SoCal’s top dog much, much better than oaks competed with the runner up 

this is a too easy arguement unless you want to continue to flavor the tiers with personal animus 

The more I look at the DLS result vs Tier 4 Folsom and Bellermine, the more inclined I am to drop DLS to Tier 3

[Sammyswordsman]

6 hours ago, Pops said:

Cathedral didn’t help Folsom’s case but it didn’t hurt them as the socal mob would ascribe 

in a game they were far less excited about than their opponent, they beat a team that is probably right next to Oaks in socal rankings 

The Carhedral game disaster is cause to drop Folsom to Tier 4. Folsom actually trailed most of the game.  Where is Cathedral in the comp poll compared to Jokes ?

[Pops]

Just now, Sammyswordsman said:

The more I look at the DLS result vs Tier 4 Folsom and Bellermine, the more inclined I am to drop DLS to Tier 3

Are you trying to scare me?

i don’t care where you place DLS but you and I both know that would just make your tiers that much sillier and biased so have fun 

let’s just agree that this schtick has passed its shelf life 

[Sammyswordsman]

Just now, Pops said:

Are you trying to scare me?

i don’t care where you place DLS but you and I both know that would just make your tiers that much sillier and biased so have fun 

let’s just agree that this schtick has passed its shelf life 

Yes I’m threatening you.  Lol

Yes the Schlick has passed the shelf life, but I believe I’m being fair and not unreasonable.

I actually started The Tiers as a joke just to place the devil in Tier 6 no matter how many games they won.  But guys started taking it serious, so I had to treat Folsom fairly or risk losing credibility. 

[Pops]

6 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

The Carhedral game disaster is cause to drop Folsom to Tier 4. Folsom actually trailed most of the game.  Where is Cathedral in the comp poll compared to Jokes ?

This is the sort of stupid bias 

“disaster” to lose to the #1 team in socal outside of the Big 3 (ok, you can debate Oaks and JSerra, but Cathedral nonlower than 6th”

but let’s just blow off oaks doing it TWICE to a 4-7 team that Folsom could have beaten by 100 as not running up the score 

Folsom is #7 nationally in your favorite reference tool 

im just disappointed in myself I’m wasting breath in this thread 

[Pops]

2 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

But guys started taking it serious, so I had to treat Folsom fairly or risk losing credibility. 

You have to have credibility to lose it 

[Sammyswordsman]

4 minutes ago, Pops said:

This is the sort of stupid bias 

“disaster” to lose to the #1 team in socal outside of the Big 3 (ok, you can debate Oaks and JSerra, but Cathedral nonlower than 6th”

but let’s just blow off oaks doing it TWICE to a 4-7 team that Folsom could have beaten by 100 as not running up the score 

Folsom is #7 nationally in your favorite reference tool 

im just disappointed in myself I’m wasting breath in this thread 

Your not disappointed.  You brought your satchel with supporting data to make your case like everyone else. 

You got to say your piece and were heard.  

Folsom was Tier 3 all year due to their showing va DLS, with an opportunity to move to Tier 2 pending a decisive victory vs a team from a Tier 2 So Cal section.