pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Cracker said: I used to drive from Richardson to st marks. That was considered insane, back in the day. LOL! Another SPC guy?!? Get out of here. Sometimes the drive from Richardson to SM could take longer than 45 minutes lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 13 hours ago, pied said: You wanted names, I gave you names, you wanted high ranking guys I gave you high ranking guys. There’s ALWAYS a reason it’s not “significant “ for you, no matter the number. Fair enough, your standards. If you discount everything, you make a pretty good argument. Now it’s out of state. A question for you, do you think the same thing about out of state transfers to IMG or St. Frances? I don’t know, but believe you’ll find a difference to NO ONE’S surprise. I know you discount it, but it is interesting to me and maybe a bunch of others that the coaches surveyed in Dallas think it’s a problem, but you don’t think there’s anything to discuss. Pied you didn’t give me crap. I already know of these transfers. I asked you to give me all of the high profile ones in 2021. I can give you pretty much all the high profile ones, without googling, in DFW. Collectively it’s not a lot. I called out the transfers in total and some of the transfers like the midland kid to lake travis as insignificant. So far, the high end transfers in ‘22 have been to non elite teams. I don’t give a damn about transfers in and out of SFA, but I do recognize the difference in what states/agencies allow. if I ever stated Texas doesn’t do transfers then your entire posting would be on point…but that’s never been my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Pied you didn’t give me crap. I already know of these transfers. I asked you to give me all of the high profile ones in 2021. I can give you pretty much all the high profile ones, without googling, in DFW. Collectively it’s not a lot. I called out the transfers in total and some of the transfers like the midland kid to lake travis as insignificant. I don’t give a damn about transfers in and out of SFA, but I do recognize the difference in what states/agencies allow. if I ever stated Texas doesn’t do transfers then your entire posting would be on point…but that’s never been my point. OK. Let me ask you a question or two. Why do you think the Coaches in Dallas seems to think that recruiting happens, intentional or not, in particular to "open enrollment districts"? Second question, you have stated several times that you are limiting the discussion to "high profile" ones. Do you think coaches view it similarly? My experience is that in most cases, even very good teams, the majority of the team is built on players that will never see a college football field, but play a big role on their HS team. Do you think the HS coaches care about those guys or just their high profile ones? DFW districts with Open Enrollment Dallas DeSoto Duncanville Grand Prairie HEB(limited) Lancaster Carroll (limited) Based on responses for 40 head coaches of Dallas-area football teams: Do you think open enrollment policies affect competitive balance in football? Yes: 37 No: 3 If you coach in an open enrollment district, do you think your football program benefits? Yes: 4 No: 5 If you coach in a closed enrollment district, have you had a player transfer into an open district? Yes: 25 No: 7 Do you think programs in districts with open enrollment directly and/or indirectly recruit? Yes: 38 No: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, pied said: OK. Let me ask you a question or two. Why do you think the Coaches in Dallas seems to think that recruiting happens, intentional or not, in particular to "open enrollment districts"? Second question, you have stated several times that you are limiting the discussion to "high profile" ones. Do you think coaches view it similarly? My experience is that in most cases, even very good teams, the majority of the team is built on players that will never see a college football field, but play a big role on their HS team. Do you think the HS coaches care about those guys or just their high profile ones? DFW districts with Open Enrollment Dallas DeSoto Duncanville Grand Prairie HEB(limited) Lancaster Carroll (limited) Based on responses for 40 head coaches of Dallas-area football teams: Do you think open enrollment policies affect competitive balance in football? Yes: 37 No: 3 If you coach in an open enrollment district, do you think your football program benefits? Yes: 4 No: 5 If you coach in a closed enrollment district, have you had a player transfer into an open district? Yes: 25 No: 7 Do you think programs in districts with open enrollment directly and/or indirectly recruit? Yes: 38 No: 2 You are comparing OE and transfers as if they are the same thing. They are not. OE is the tool that is used to attract non varsity level talent because it can get around residency requirements for those districts that have OE policies. OE is a different issue than the routine transfers we see like Hicks, wisner and Farrakhan this year And as far as the survey, I take it with a grain of salt. I’d like to know the number of surveyors that filed a complaint to the uil for alleged recruiting, how many of the 40 are from programs that don’t have OE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Horsefly said: You are comparing OE and transfers as if they are the same thing. They are not. OE is the tool that is used to attract non varsity level talent because it can get around residency requirements for those districts that have OE policies. OE is a different issue than the routine transfers we see like Hicks, wisner and Farrakhan this year You didn't answer either question lol. Is this a fair statement of your position on the matter? 38 out of 40 DFW coaches believe recruiting happens in local Open Enrollment districts, but that DOES NOT happen at non-OE despite many transfers in the area. This is evidenced by using my criteria of 4/5* players transferring and the small numbers(defined by me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, pied said: You didn't answer either question lol. Is this a fair statement of your position on the matter? 38 out of 40 DFW coaches believe recruiting happens in local Open Enrollment districts, but that DOES NOT happen at non-OE despite many transfers in the area. This is evidenced by using my criteria of 4/5* players transferring and the small numbers(defined by me). I think coaches underestimate the effect of parents and players that attend the same camps or are on the same 7on7 teams in attracting talent to one school. I did it on my sons aau BB team and the HS coach wasn’t aware of crap nor did I have to conference with him. That goes on more than coaches or those affiliated with schools recruiting poor programs care about every player because there is a reason players leave those programs, it’s comical coaches never want to analyze themselves and determine why players don’t want to play for them. A lot of these HCs simply suck. That’s why Id like to know who the surveyors are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Horsefly said: I think coaches underestimate the effect of parents and players that attend the same camps or are on the same 7on7 teams in attracting talent to one school. I did it on my sons aau BB team and the HS coach wasn’t aware of crap nor did I have to conference with him. That goes on more than coaches or those affiliated with schools recruiting poor programs care about every player because there is a reason players leave those programs, it’s comical coaches never want to analyze themselves and determine why players don’t want to play for them. A lot of these HCs simply suck. That’s why Id like to know who the surveyors are. Got it. To clarify, you participated in discussions, if not transfers, for athletic reasons with parents of basketball players. In addition, you do not lend credence to 38/40 coaches' opinions (yet) because they may suck as coaches and you do not know who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, pied said: Got it. To clarify, you participated in discussions, if not transfers, for athletic reasons with parents of basketball players. In addition, you do not lend credence to 38/40 coaches' opinions (yet) because they may suck as coaches and you do not know who they are. No you don’t “got it” I didn’t have to initiate anything with parents, but sell them on the program and school when there was an opportunity to do so. No different from me talking to parents about my youngest sensei and the dojo she practiced out of or talking to parents about my oldest piano instructor. It’s not mystical pied nor devious. See it goes back to what these coaches can control. If they think recruiting happened then they have the tools to report it, if they think a varsity transfer is suspicious they can flag it. Those are the follow up questions that should be asked also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Horsefly said: No you don’t “got it” I didn’t have to initiate anything with parents, but sell them on the program and school when there was an opportunity to do so. No different from me talking to parents about my youngest sensei and the dojo she practiced out of or talking to parents about my oldest piano instructor. It’s not mystical pied nor devious. See it goes back to what these coaches can control. If they think recruiting happened then they have the tools to report it, if they think a varsity transfer is suspicious they can flag it. Those are the follow up questions that should be asked also I never said initiated, I said participated. I wasn't in the conversation and can only respond to what you relate. It does look like the UIL would consider this a "Common Indicator" for transferring for athletic purposes. Section 443: CHANGING SCHOOLS FOR ATHLETIC PURPOSES(a) DETERMINATION BY DISTRICT EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE. The district executive committee is to determine whether or not a student changed schools for athletic purposes, when considering each student who changed schools and has completed the eighth grade, whether or not the student has represented a school in grades nine through twelve.(b) COMMON INDICATORS. District executive committees should look closely to determine if a student is changing schools for any athletic purpose. Some common indicators committees should include in their considerations include, but are not limited to: checking to see if a student was recruited; ascertaining whether a student was in good standing in the previous school, either academically or in a sports program; determining if a student was unhappy with a coach in the previous school; determining if a student played on a non-school team and is transferring to the school where members of the non-school team attend; determining if a student played on a non-school team and is transferring to the school where the non-school team coach or a relative of the non-school team coach, is the school coach; and determining if a student received individual or team instruction from a school coach and is transferring to the school of that coach. Of course the parents have to sign off on the PAPF form. (e) PREVIOUS ATHLETIC PARTICIPATION FORM (PAPF). - An individual is presumed to have changed schools for athletic purposes if he or she participated with his or her former school in any League athletic contest or practice in grades eight through twelve during any previous school year until: ... (4) the parents sign a PAPF either in front of the new school’s administrator or a notary public that they reside in the new school district or attendance zone and the change was not made for their child’s athletic purposes https://www.uiltexas.org/files/constitution/uil-ccr-subchapter-m.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, pied said: I never said initiated, I said participated. I wasn't in the conversation and can only respond to what you relate. It does look like the UIL would consider this a "Common Indicator" for transferring for athletic purposes. Section 443: CHANGING SCHOOLS FOR ATHLETIC PURPOSES(a) DETERMINATION BY DISTRICT EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE. The district executive committee is to determine whether or not a student changed schools for athletic purposes, when considering each student who changed schools and has completed the eighth grade, whether or not the student has represented a school in grades nine through twelve.(b) COMMON INDICATORS. District executive committees should look closely to determine if a student is changing schools for any athletic purpose. Some common indicators committees should include in their considerations include, but are not limited to: checking to see if a student was recruited; ascertaining whether a student was in good standing in the previous school, either academically or in a sports program; determining if a student was unhappy with a coach in the previous school; determining if a student played on a non-school team and is transferring to the school where members of the non-school team attend; determining if a student played on a non-school team and is transferring to the school where the non-school team coach or a relative of the non-school team coach, is the school coach; and determining if a student received individual or team instruction from a school coach and is transferring to the school of that coach. Of course the parents have to sign off on the PAPF form. (e) PREVIOUS ATHLETIC PARTICIPATION FORM (PAPF). - An individual is presumed to have changed schools for athletic purposes if he or she participated with his or her former school in any League athletic contest or practice in grades eight through twelve during any previous school year until: ... (4) the parents sign a PAPF either in front of the new school’s administrator or a notary public that they reside in the new school district or attendance zone and the change was not made for their child’s athletic purposes https://www.uiltexas.org/files/constitution/uil-ccr-subchapter-m.pdf Read all what I said pied! What else did I sell them on? Smh 👇🏽 18 minutes ago, Horsefly said: No you don’t “got it” I didn’t have to initiate anything with parents, but sell them on the program and school when there was an opportunity to do so. No different from me talking to parents about my youngest sensei and the dojo she practiced out of or talking to parents about my oldest piano instructor. It’s not mystical pied nor devious. See it goes back to what these coaches can control. If they think recruiting happened then they have the tools to report it, if they think a varsity transfer is suspicious they can flag it. Those are the follow up questions that should be asked also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Horsefly said: Read what I said pied! What else did I sell them on? 👇🏽 This seems pretty clear, or am I missing something. I'm not saying YOU did anything wrong, but the UIL considers that a common indicator of transferring for athletic purposes, correct? I'm assuming IF a player ended up transferring, that the parents signed the PAPF indicating they didn't transfer for athletic purposes or sat out a year. 40 minutes ago, Horsefly said: I think coaches underestimate the effect of parents and players that attend the same camps or are on the same 7on7 teams in attracting talent to one school. I did it on my sons aau BB team and the HS coach wasn’t aware of crap nor did I have to conference with him. That goes on more than coaches or those affiliated with schools recruiting poor programs care about every player because there is a reason players leave those programs, it’s comical coaches never want to analyze themselves and determine why players don’t want to play for them. A lot of these HCs simply suck. That’s why Id like to know who the surveyors are. So does this: Section 443: CHANGING SCHOOLS FOR ATHLETIC PURPOSES ... (b) COMMON INDICATORS. ... determining if a student played on a non-school team and is transferring to the school where members of the non-school team attend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, pied said: This seems pretty clear, or am I missing something. I'm not saying YOU did anything wrong, but the UIL considers that a common indicator of transferring for athletic purposes, correct? I'm assuming IF a player ended up transferring, that the parents signed the PAPF indicating they didn't transfer for athletic purposes or sat out a year. So does this: Section 443: CHANGING SCHOOLS FOR ATHLETIC PURPOSES ... (b) COMMON INDICATORS. ... determining if a student played on a non-school team and is transferring to the school where members of the non-school team attend What I’m saying is an athlete can be attracted without violating any of that; all that needs to be introduced are other intentional factors that can be considered, such as school overall, community, job market in the area, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, Horsefly said: What I’m saying is an athlete can be attracted without violating any of that; all that needs to be introduced are other intentional factors that can be considered, such as school overall, community, job market in the area, etc. Absolutely agree. They can also be influenced by teammates and their families on AAU/7 on 7/club soccer/volleyball teams/etc. to play on the same HS team, which the UIL considers a common indicator of transferring for athletic purposes. Which of the factors you listed above do you think makes DeSoto an attractive landing spot for a student at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 37 minutes ago, pied said: Absolutely agree. They can also be influenced by teammates and their families on AAU/7 on 7/club soccer/volleyball teams/etc. to play on the same HS team, which the UIL considers a common indicator of transferring for athletic purposes. Which of the factors you listed above do you think makes DeSoto an attractive landing spot for a student at the moment? Their attraction would be of the city not the school: medium sized middle class suburb-upperly mobile black community with easy access to and plenty of job opportunities (Especially one coming from Waco) a little dated, but gets to the point https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/affluent-african-americans-flocking-to-desoto/132513/?amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Horsefly said: Their attraction would be of the city not the school: medium sized middle class suburb-upperly mobile black community with easy access to and plenty of job opportunities (Especially one coming from Waco) a little dated, but gets to the point https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/affluent-african-americans-flocking-to-desoto/132513/?amp yeah, but.... DeSoto ISD Taken Over by TEA Monitor; Resigned Super Tells DMN He's Keeping His Job https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/desoto-isd-taken-over-by-tea-monitor-resigned-super-tells-dmn-hes-keeping-his-job/2438015/ School district promises changes after viral video shows students throwing chair at substitute teacher https://abc17news.com/cnn-regional/2022/03/12/school-district-promises-changes-after-viral-video-shows-students-throwing-chair-at-substitute-teacher/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 18 hours ago, pied said: You wanted names, I gave you names, you wanted high ranking guys I gave you high ranking guys. There’s ALWAYS a reason it’s not “significant “ for you, no matter the number. Fair enough, your standards. He's been that way since he started posting here.... Point is.... his standards are always delusional and motivated by self-defense. Easy to see for most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, pied said: yeah, but.... DeSoto ISD Taken Over by TEA Monitor; Resigned Super Tells DMN He's Keeping His Job https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/desoto-isd-taken-over-by-tea-monitor-resigned-super-tells-dmn-hes-keeping-his-job/2438015/ School district promises changes after viral video shows students throwing chair at substitute teacher https://abc17news.com/cnn-regional/2022/03/12/school-district-promises-changes-after-viral-video-shows-students-throwing-chair-at-substitute-teacher/ 😂 you asked what factors could be used; I gave them to you. None of them have to be about the school depending on where the student is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Horsefly said: 😂 you asked what factors could be used; I gave them to you. None of them have to be about the school depending on where the student is coming from. I think that you made a valid point. More recently the district has come under fire for a few reasons. I don't understand the second sentence though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, pied said: I think that you made a valid point. More recently the district has come under fire for a few reasons. I don't understand the second sentence though. If a student is transferring from just as bad or worse school, maybe there are a few in DISD as an example, they may see Desoto, with all its warts as an upgrade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 13, 2022 Report Share Posted April 13, 2022 I'm with you now. I know nothing about Waco Connally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracker Posted April 14, 2022 Report Share Posted April 14, 2022 On 4/13/2022 at 9:08 AM, pied said: Another SPC guy?!? Get out of here. Sometimes the drive from Richardson to SM could take longer than 45 minutes lol. This was mid 80s. It was 8.5 miles from where I lived (UTD area). 30 minutes or so with traffic. Went to JJ Pearce for my Junior and Senior year. That was a much better drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 19, 2022 Report Share Posted April 19, 2022 Nothing to see here. Another 3*(not sure if that counts though) transfer to DeSoto for his Senior year. https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2023/brian-hollins-245985 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted April 19, 2022 Report Share Posted April 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, pied said: Nothing to see here. Another 3*(not sure if that counts though) transfer to DeSoto for his Senior year. https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2023/brian-hollins-245985 OOS game, big time players transferring. They're taking the Duncanville model and applying it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted April 19, 2022 Report Share Posted April 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, steeler01 said: OOS game, big time players transferring. They're taking the Duncanville model and applying it 18 miles, I wonder why they didn't go to midlothian. I bet Desoto is a beautiful community that offers a lot for that young man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pied Posted April 19, 2022 Report Share Posted April 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, steeler01 said: 18 miles, I wonder why they didn't go to midlothian. I bet Desoto is a beautiful community that offers a lot for that young man Transferring from 4-6 Mansfield HS. DeSoto HS and ISD has been in the news a lot lately, not much for positive news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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