If an athlete acquires the virus can the school be held responsible?

[BigDrop]

This is a central issue for some in the business community, i. e. will they be held harmless if someone acquires the virus on their property or in their event?

For much of America this may be irrelevant.  But in other areas (I.e. the Washington metro area has 50,000+ cases out of 6.5 million population) this may be a consideration.  Does a school have exposure?  The municipality or the state?  Could the facility where the event is played have exposure?  What about their employees?  Officials? We are approaching 100,000 dead and parts of the U. S. may have considerations not even imagined elsewhere. Having had the entire country shut down and with practice and tryouts approaching this may be a real consideration.

What about a team from, say, North Jersey travelling to a smaller city in, say, Georgia?  Or a Boston team playing in a more rural town in another state?

Any thoughts on what may be a central topic?

Also, because this is a pandemic has there been any discussion of ensuring the athletes are virus free?

I must add that I sincerely hope my concerns are totally unfounded. But I am guessing that until there is a vaccine or an efficient treatment this is a topic that may not go away.  We’re stepping onto a new field right now and a lot of people are unsure of the next step.

[DarterBlue]

Your concerns are not unfounded. Util there is a vaccine, high contact, high school sports should be sidelined. Too much risk facing the amateur athletes, their families and friends. Even if most teenagers are asymptomatic or at worst experience relatively mild symptoms, what about their grandparents and parents? Is this smart? In the case of professional sports, these are highly compensated grown men and women who are bound by contractual obligations and should know the risks they are taking. Further, if they feel they are being unduly exposed, they can negotiate with their respective owners and leagues.

In the case of high school athletics these are amateur children. I feel the 2020 season in contact sports for high school children should be scrapped. 

[BigDrop]

4 minutes ago, DarterBlue said:

Your concerns are not unfounded. Util there is a vaccine, high contact, high school sports should be sidelined. Too much risk facing the amateur athletes, their families and friends. Even if most teenagers are asymptomatic or at worst experience relatively mild symptoms, what about their grandparents and parents? Is this smart? In the case of professional sports, these are highly compensated grown men and women who are bound by contractual obligations and should know the risks they are taking. Further, if they feel they are being unduly exposed, they can negotiate with their respective owners and leagues.

In the case of high school athletics these are amateur children. I feel the 2020 season in contact sports for high school children should be scrapped. 

Good post, DarterBlue.  Thanks for sharing.

[HawgGoneIt]

I think nobody is forcing a kid to play sports. It's a totally voluntary extracurricular activity. 

I'm assuming we're going to see a million different scenarios with school systems, municipalities and states all doing things their own ways with no real rhyme or reason blanket applied. Much like all the responses have been up til this point.

[954gator]

2 hours ago, DarterBlue said:

Your concerns are not unfounded. Util there is a vaccine, high contact, high school sports should be sidelined. Too much risk facing the amateur athletes, their families and friends. Even if most teenagers are asymptomatic or at worst experience relatively mild symptoms, what about their grandparents and parents? Is this smart? In the case of professional sports, these are highly compensated grown men and women who are bound by contractual obligations and should know the risks they are taking. Further, if they feel they are being unduly exposed, they can negotiate with their respective owners and leagues.

In the case of high school athletics these are amateur children. I feel the 2020 season in contact sports for high school children should be scrapped. 

Thing is there might not be a vaccine for a while.   Vaccines for these types of virus’ are complicated.    Don’t think a vaccine was ever created for the initial  SARs outbreak in the early millennium.    I feel having no football is more dangerous for some of these kids at MNW than it is getting Covid honestly.

[Ga96]

2 hours ago, BigDrop said:

This is a central issue for some in the business community, i. e. will they be held harmless if someone acquires the virus on their property or in their event?

For much of America this may be irrelevant.  But in other areas (I.e. the Washington metro area has 50,000+ cases out of 6.5 million population) this may be a consideration.  Does a school have exposure?  The municipality or the state?  Could the facility where the event is played have exposure?  What about their employees?  Officials? We are approaching 100,000 dead and parts of the U. S. may have considerations not even imagined elsewhere. Having had the entire country shut down and with practice and tryouts approaching this may be a real consideration.

What about a team from, say, North Jersey travelling to a smaller city in, say, Georgia?  Or a Boston team playing in a more rural town in another state?

Any thoughts on what may be a central topic?

Also, because this is a pandemic has there been any discussion of ensuring the athletes are virus free?

I must add that I sincerely hope my concerns are totally unfounded. But I am guessing that until there is a vaccine or an efficient treatment this is a topic that may not go away.  We’re stepping onto a new field right now and a lot of people are unsure of the next step.

I don't think the school or state will be held accountable. They'll just add it on player waivers and have parents and players sign it before their kids are allowed to participate in any actives. I think it would be a good idea to have all the athletes that are gonna play get updated physicals and have the waiver attached for them,they parents, and their doctor's to sign. 

I think it would carry the same weight as a kid being injured during a game.

[DarterBlue]

4 hours ago, 954gator said:

Thing is there might not be a vaccine for a while.   Vaccines for these types of virus’ are complicated.    Don’t think a vaccine was ever created for the initial  SARs outbreak in the early millennium.    I feel having no football is more dangerous for some of these kids at MNW than it is getting Covid honestly.

I understand that. But I also feel that in a sense, out of desperation, that these kids and their families will end up being exploited. For what? The college/TV complex? The thing is: only a small number of the kids may get sick/die as a result of this. But parents and grand parents (many live with grandparents and/or extended families) will also be needlessly exposed. 

From a personal perspective, unless I was 100% sure that my kid was going to get a big time college scholarship, and that his heart was dead set on it, and that not playing this season was going to seriously impair it, I would not let him play till there was a vaccine. The statement is an hypothetical, as my kids are grown, but it honestly reflects the way I feel about the situation. 

Regarding an effective vaccine, I am actually fairly optimistic that there will be one within the next 12 to 18 months. The virus seems fairly stable (it does not seem to mutate very much) and there seem to be only a couple strains of it (unlike the flu). This makes it a relatively good candidate for a vaccine. So, there is hope that it won't end up being another plague we will have to deal with indefinitely. 

[Bodysurf]

I think we hit the nail on the head here which is liability. Schools have the fear of being sued if somebody contracts the virus. Companies everywhere are afraid of being sued. It is going to be interesting in the future. I heard that Disney is making people sign wavers before entering the park that they are assuming the risk of being infected. I wouldn’t be surprised if restaurants do this also. Same with churches and sporting venues in the future. 
 

[RedZone]

10 hours ago, BigDrop said:

Any thoughts on what may be a central topic?

Politics. 

[DarterBlue]

1 hour ago, Bodysurf said:

I think we hit the nail on the head here which is liability. Schools have the fear of being sued if somebody contracts the virus. Companies everywhere are afraid of being sued. It is going to be interesting in the future. I heard that Disney is making people sign wavers before entering the park that they are assuming the risk of being infected. I wouldn’t be surprised if restaurants do this also. Same with churches and sporting venues in the future. 
 

Those waivers may or may not stand up in a court of law. There is a reason Disney closed its parks down promptly before the states they are in had lockdowns in effect.

Legal liability is not always waived away when documents are signed. There are a whole host of arguments that a good attorney, with resources at his/her disposal can make. 

[Rufus69]

10 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I think nobody is forcing a kid to play sports. It's a totally voluntary extracurricular activity. 

I'm assuming we're going to see a million different scenarios with school systems, municipalities and states all doing things their own ways with no real rhyme or reason blanket applied. Much like all the responses have been up til this point.

Have you seen the new waivers that organizations are asking people to sign?

I would surmise that school systems would follow suit.

 

 

Rufus>>

[954gator]

2 hours ago, Bodysurf said:

I think we hit the nail on the head here which is liability. Schools have the fear of being sued if somebody contracts the virus. Companies everywhere are afraid of being sued. It is going to be interesting in the future. I heard that Disney is making people sign wavers before entering the park that they are assuming the risk of being infected. I wouldn’t be surprised if restaurants do this also. Same with churches and sporting venues in the future. 
 

Yup sign a waiver.   It’s that simple.  

[954gator]

1 hour ago, DarterBlue said:

Those waivers may or may not stand up in a court of law. There is a reason Disney closed its parks down promptly before the states they are in had lockdowns in effect.

Legal liability is not always waived away when documents are signed. There are a whole host of arguments that a good attorney, with resources at his/her disposal can make. 

That’s true I guess, but I don’t think the courts are going to be sympathetic with all the information out there.   Unless an employee/staff member significantly breaks protocol etc.   An attorney will have one hell of a hard time trying to prove the client was unaware of the risks when signing.

[DarterBlue]

14 minutes ago, 954gator said:

That’s true I guess, but I don’t think the courts are going to be sympathetic with all the information out there.   Unless an employee/staff member significantly breaks protocol etc.   An attorney will have one hell of a hard time trying to prove the client was unaware of the risks when signing.

The question is, though: Is it reasonable for the organization to request the waiver in the first place? I know the current administration has been pushing for exemptions from legal liability. But is entirely possible they don't get these. And, at the end of the day, it is up to a judge (and perhaps jury depending on the nature of the trial), to render a verdict.

But all of this takes me back to the point I raised in response to your prior comments. Would I as a parent allow my kid to go out there and play football this summer/fall given the backdrop of what's going on? The answer for me would be no, subject to the comments in my prior post.  It should be interesting to see whether some of the more affluent schools (both public and private) opt for football or opt to sit out. For, example, Apopka plays in a district with: Evans, Lake Brantley, Lake Mary, Ocoee and West Orange; I could easily see a situation where Lake Mary (and perhaps Lake Brantly), opt to not play football for the simple fact there is more affluence in those two schools and, concomitantly, the parents are more aware of and concerned about the risks of Covid-19 from playing football. I could easily see the same playing out in South Florida with respect to: Douglas, Columbus, and perhaps, Aquinas and American Heritage or Cardinal Gibbons. 

[CCBlackhatter]

5 hours ago, DarterBlue said:

I understand that. But I also feel that in a sense, out of desperation, that these kids and their families will end up being exploited. For what? The college/TV complex? The thing is: only a small number of the kids may get sick/die as a result of this. But parents and grand parents (many live with grandparents and/or extended families) will also be needlessly exposed. 

From a personal perspective, unless I was 100% sure that my kid was going to get a big time college scholarship, and that his heart was dead set on it, and that not playing this season was going to seriously impair it, I would not let him play till there was a vaccine. The statement is an hypothetical, as my kids are grown, but it honestly reflects the way I feel about the situation. 

Regarding an effective vaccine, I am actually fairly optimistic that there will be one within the next 12 to 18 months. The virus seems fairly stable (it does not seem to mutate very much) and there seem to be only a couple strains of it (unlike the flu). This makes it a relatively good candidate for a vaccine. So, there is hope that it won't end up being another plague we will have to deal with indefinitely. 

Eventually we will build up immunity and those at high risk (70+) will unfortunately pass away. Lots of things kill the elderly which is why the life expectancy is generally the age of those currently dying from the virus.

It's time we get back to normal, if a spike occurs, we can adjust accordingly.

[DarterBlue]

10 minutes ago, CCBlackhatter said:

Eventually we will build up immunity and those at high risk (70+) will unfortunately pass away. Lots of things kill the elderly which is why the life expectancy is generally the age of those currently dying from the virus.

It's time we get back to normal, if a spike occurs, we can adjust accordingly.

I don't know how sensitive or insensitive you are or whether you think for yourself or just parrot the views of others. With that said, I happen to be in my mid 60's and have no intention of departing this world due to the callousness, stupidity or carelessness of others. I have worked hard to maintain good heath and have no intention of pissing away my life due to some grand experiment in building up immunity. 

Fortunately, I am retired and have accumulated enough savings to live out my remaining years in the modest lifestyle to which I am accustomed. Common sense and prudence will dictate that I do not attend any football or other sporting events for the remainder of this year. The same applies to other mass gathering events such as religious services, funerals, weddings and graduations. If you choose to be careless that's on you.

I will suggest to you, though, that those promoting the kind of behavior you advocate are more protected than either you or me. 

[Ga96]

21 minutes ago, DarterBlue said:

I don't know how sensitive or insensitive you are or whether you think for yourself or just parrot the views of others. With that said, I happen to be in my mid 60's and have no intention of departing this world due to the callousness, stupidity or carelessness of others. I have worked hard to maintain good heath and have no intention of pissing away my life due to some grand experiment in building up immunity. 

Fortunately, I am retired and have accumulated enough savings to live out my remaining years in the modest lifestyle to which I am accustomed. Common sense and prudence will dictate that I do not attend any football or other sporting events for the remainder of this year. The same applies to other mass gathering events such as religious services, funerals, weddings and graduations. If you choose to be careless that's on you.

I will suggest to you, though, that those promoting the kind of behavior you advocate are more protected than either you or me. 

Im not as old as you but I do agree. I have had to deal with asthma an allergies since the age of 2 this whole situation has been mishandled and still has been mishandled. Unfortunately for alot of humans they won't learn until it directly impacts them.

[FootballGuy]

2 hours ago, CCBlackhatter said:

Eventually we will build up immunity and those at high risk (70+) will unfortunately pass away. Lots of things kill the elderly which is why the life expectancy is generally the age of those currently dying from the virus.

It's time we get back to normal, if a spike occurs, we can adjust accordingly.

How? By shutting everything down again?