Another fun filled weekend in Chicago

[Troll]

25 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

But I STILL don't get it @Troll

I'm a buffoon who STILL thinks a shooting in a major downtown area = NO deterrent for tourists in this  dangerous urban cesspool!

The truth is that I'm just an agenda pusher, and a terrible imitator of someone with a brain.

FIFY 👍

 

 

[badrouter]

2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

This is just nonsense which has become common for you.

Somehow you believe that changing attitudes about gun violence in urban areas is "completely forbidden" on the left.

This is despite the fact that the people who *might* actually lean that way keep losing Democratic primaries.

Conversely, the people who *definitely* embody the former position never lose Republican ones.

I'm talking about discourse in general, meaning media, social media, discussion forums and social gatherings. In left-leaning circles, suggesting that ideas and attitudes (often referred to as "culture", but I think use of this word is a mistake) encouraging being violent and using guns have much to do with the frequency of gun violence, is prohibited. For example, we are not allowed to suggest that much of the music with widespread popularity which glamorizes violence-including against women- is a negative but significant influence.  We're not allowed to point out the frequency with which urban youth post to social media comments about, and pictures of, guns. Certainly not to point out the fact that this may be evidence of popularity of, and tendency to, rely on guns by people in urban communities. Discussion of these things is prohibited, presumably, because of "the optics" which may harm political campaigns. We're not to "blame the victim", or "sound like we're making right-wing talking points". So, our tribe can't address it *AT ALL* in public discussions.

Someone like myself makes the points I make above, and right-wingers applaud. But, ANY talk of the insanity of the amount of guns on the streets, and of the need for *national* laws to curtail the prevalence of guns is prohibited. Absolutely no discussion of tightening gun laws and getting guns out of some people's hands is allowed. Discussion of these things is prohibited, presumably because of "the optics" which may harm political campaigns. We're not to "attack the 2nd amendment", or "sound like we're making leftist talking points". So, our tribe can't address it *AT ALL* in public discussions.

What happens in political campaigns is a result of several factors which vary by location. Virtually all of the elections have less than half of the electorate voting in the first place. And, the overwhelming majority of the minority of the electorate actually voting are EXTREMELY low information voters. Even those often not counted as low information voters have an extremely rudimentary understanding of both the candidates and the issues. An absolutely minuscule percentage of voters genuinely understand the candidates and the issues with any sort of accuracy or depth. And all of that helps explain the debased nature of discourse described above.

[badrouter]

I've taken a couple of mini vacations to Chicago in the last year. "The Loop" is the only part of town I ever spent time in. That area is generally safe, and reminds one of Manhattan, NYC. Took private sunset boat cruises both trips, and they were a blast. They have a fireworks show every weekend in the summer, and it's awesome to watch from a boat in the middle of Lake Michigan.

That said, "The Loop" is the absolute core, nicest area of the city. If that area falls to chaos and violence, the city will collapse. 

[Atticus Finch]

20 minutes ago, badrouter said:

I'm talking about discourse in general, meaning media, social media, discussion forums and social gatherings. In left-leaning circles, suggesting that ideas and attitudes (often referred to as "culture", but I think use of this word is a mistake) encouraging being violent and using guns have much to do with the frequency of gun violence, is prohibited.

And you're still full of shit regardless of your attempt to clarify.

[Atticus Finch]

23 minutes ago, badrouter said:

But, ANY talk of the insanity of the amount of guns on the streets, and of the need for *national* laws to curtail the prevalence of guns is prohibited. Absolutely no discussion of tightening gun laws and getting guns out of some people's hands is allowed. Discussion of these things is prohibited, presumably because of "the optics" which may harm political campaigns. We're not to "attack the 2nd amendment", or "sound like we're making leftist talking points". So, our tribe can't address it *AT ALL* in public discussions.

This is actually true though unlike your ridiculous caricature about culture above.

[Troll]

26 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

And I'm still full of shit regardless of my attempts to divert.

👍

PS: Perhaps you can spend all those Lottery winnings...🤓

...on a tutor 👌

 

[rockinl]

Culture is the main issue. Growing up admiring gangs, criminals and prison thugs has become part of that inner city culture over the past 40+ years.

90% of inner city single mother homes are shit shows with very little to no child supervision.

[Atticus Finch]

You're talking about the symptom and not the cause.

Which is typical of people who don't really care about the issue and only want to score points.

[Nolebull813]

34 minutes ago, rockinl said:

Culture is the main issue. Growing up admiring gangs, criminals and prison thugs has become part of that inner city culture over the past 40+ years.

90% of inner city single mother homes are shit shows with very little to no child supervision.

Yeah it’s called societal rot. Back in the 60’s and 70’s black music and culture revolved around love. 2 parent households we’re prevalent in black communities. 
 

it was around the 80’s into the 2000’s where black music became entrenched in sex, drugs and violence. Women are just bitches and hoes, drug dealers were the most revered and drug dealing was made to look cool, and killing people was looked at like strength. 
 

Black adults have to suffer in the inner cities due to failed Democrat policies, and the children suffer because they are bred into poverty and crime and taught by black entertainers that drugs and violence is normal. It’s cool. So they grow up saying “fuck the police” and “selling crack till the sun comes up” 

it’s a vicious cycle that never changes because the same Democrat leadership is cemented, making sure the suffering will never stop 

[rockinl]

11 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Yeah it’s called societal rot. Back in the 60’s and 70’s black music and culture revolved around love. 2 parent households we’re prevalent in black communities. 
 

it was around the 80’s into the 2000’s where black music became entrenched in sex, drugs and violence. Women are just bitches and hoes, drug dealers were the most revered and drug dealing was made to look cool, and killing people was looked at like strength. 
 

Black adults have to suffer in the inner cities due to failed Democrat policies, and the children suffer because they are bred into poverty and crime and taught by black entertainers that drugs and violence is normal. It’s cool. So they grow up saying “fuck the police” and “selling crack till the sun comes up” 

it’s a vicious cycle that never changes because the same Democrat leadership is cemented, making sure the suffering will never stop 

All this boils down to a culture which used to be very proud, even in the hardest of times (slavery, Jim Crow), to children raising themselves, admiring criminals, and government dependence.

I knew plenty of black families when I was a kid, that had both parents, discipline in the home, jobs, and raised children to respect authority and others. Jim Crow was around back then, but that didnt stop them from being decent human beings. They werent killing each other and selling drugs on every corner.

Lyndon Johnsons "Great Society" started the downfall, and it continues today. Govt money for votes.

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

Oh shit, didn’t take long for the old “I know of Black folks” diatribe to come shooting out of Klan asses.

Fucking morons. 
 

bgw

[Atticus Finch]

5 hours ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

Oh shit, didn’t take long for the old “I know of Black folks” diatribe to come shooting out of Klan asses.

Fucking morons. 
 

bgw

@Nolebull813 and @rockinl don't really care about this issue.

It's just a chance for them to wax nostalgic about the "good" black people that "used to" exist.

Their favorite black person is Bill Cosby because he told young black men to pull their pants up, as if *that's* the problem confronting black Americans in the 21st century.

[badrouter]

1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said:

You're talking about the symptom and not the cause.

Which is typical of people who don't really care about the issue and only want to score points.

Whether it is a symptom or the cause, it is a massive problem that is able to be corrected. Attitudes can change, and bad ideas can be disowned. And only the  people holding the bad ideas and attitudes can change. No government policy will change anyone's mind.

[Troll]

37 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

It's just a chance for them to them to wax nostalgic about the "good" black people that "used to" exist.

 

59 minutes ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

Oh shit, didn’t take long for the old “I know of Black folks” diatribe to come shooting out of Klan asses.

 

You guys miss the whole point

of how past history

had both tribes more aligned

with "family tribe" values ???

🤔

 

PS: So tweedle dee denies it, and tweedle dum seconds the ignorance...

 

1 hour ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

Fucking morons. 
 

bgw

 

uh huh...

[badrouter]

1 hour ago, Nolebull813 said:

Yeah it’s called societal rot. Back in the 60’s and 70’s black music and culture revolved around love. 2 parent households we’re prevalent in black communities. 
 

it was around the 80’s into the 2000’s where black music became entrenched in sex, drugs and violence. Women are just bitches and hoes, drug dealers were the most revered and drug dealing was made to look cool, and killing people was looked at like strength. 
 

Black adults have to suffer in the inner cities due to failed Democrat policies, and the children suffer because they are bred into poverty and crime and taught by black entertainers that drugs and violence is normal. It’s cool. So they grow up saying “fuck the police” and “selling crack till the sun comes up” 

it’s a vicious cycle that never changes because the same Democrat leadership is cemented, making sure the suffering will never stop 

The people you describe, who celebrate violence and guns, should not have such easy access to guns, especially the more potent guns. Someone celebrating the murder of police- which happens to be a not insignificant portion of the "defund the police" movement- should not be allowed to keep his/her guns. We need national laws to curtail the number of guns on the streets, and the ease with which they can be bought.

[badrouter]

2 hours ago, rockinl said:

Culture is the main issue. Growing up admiring gangs, criminals and prison thugs has become part of that inner city culture over the past 40+ years.

90% of inner city single mother homes are shit shows with very little to no child supervision.

We can't snap our fingers and just implore people to disown bad ideas and have the problem fixed. We are generations away from even having a chance to see real change on this front. Meanwhile, people who celebrate murdering others-including cops- are drowning in guns. They are all over the place: in cars, in pants pockets, in bedrooms, etc. Someone simply loses their temper, they likely can't even look all around the place they are without seeing a gun and getting the idea that they need to start shooting. Lack of impulse control coupled with insane prevalence of guns means a whole lot of tragedies that the shooter often regrets within seconds of shooting.  

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, badrouter said:

Whether it is a symptom or the cause, it is a massive problem that is able to be corrected.

I love how you just throw out a quick cliche so you can ignore what I said and just give us your canned response.

[Nolebull813]

5 hours ago, rockinl said:

All this boils down to a culture which used to be very proud, even in the hardest of times (slavery, Jim Crow), to children raising themselves, admiring criminals, and government dependence.

I knew plenty of black families when I was a kid, that had both parents, discipline in the home, jobs, and raised children to respect authority and others. Jim Crow was around back then, but that didnt stop them from being decent human beings. They werent killing each other and selling drugs on every corner.

Lyndon Johnsons "Great Society" started the downfall, and it continues today. Govt money for votes.

I grew up in predominantly black neighborhoods as a youth and I can tell you firsthand that the difference in being a successful member of society and a career criminal in regards to said black community boiled down to one thing. Choice. 
 

That’s it. There were black people in the same exact neighborhood that CHOSE to go to a life of school and work, and others CHOSE a life of crime. These people came from the exact same area. There was no advantage or disadvantage between neighbors. It was the exact same environment. The difference in everyone’s future was found in each individuals personal choices. 
 

That wasn’t just the black community obviously. It goes for every neighborhood and every race and both genders 

[badrouter]

3 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

I love how you just throw out a quick cliche so you can ignore what I said and just give us your canned response.

I love how you just throw out a quick criticism so you can ignore the point being made about ideas and attitudes being important and changeable. 

[Atticus Finch]

7 hours ago, badrouter said:

I love how you just throw out a quick criticism so you can ignore the point being made about ideas and attitudes being important and changeable. 

Your post was contradictory.

It absolutely matters whether it's a symptom or the cause. That's pretty much the most important thing yet you gloss over it like it's immaterial.

[Troll]

55 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

My post is absolutely contradictory to my own post.

It's an absolute excuse and cop out   "whether it's a symptom or the cause". That was pretty much the most diversionary "quick cliche" I could think to accuse you of,  yet  I expect you gloss over it like it's immaterial.

FIFY 👍

 

PS: he gave you a "cause".....(actually several)

Totally avoiding and ignoring it via the

"what caused the cause" cliche 🤣

does not disqualify it

as being it's own cause.

🤓

 

BTW: if that were the case, it's easily not any "white" man's fault....

I mean we ALL came out of Africa, remember ? 🤓, so it must have been that white man's great great ancestor who was obviously black, that must be at fault here....well...at least according to your "cliche"

💩

[Troll]

12 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

I love how I just throw out a quick cliche so I can ignore what you said

[badrouter]

4 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

Your post was contradictory.

It absolutely matters whether it's a symptom or the cause. That's pretty much the most important thing yet you gloss over it like it's immaterial.

Misunderstandings, bad ideas and bad attitudes are all within control of the people having them. This is the case even if outside people/conditions helped to shape those bad attitudes etc. Prominent, influential figures need to step up and say "No! It is not cool to beat your lady up!"; "No! It is not cool to shoot and kill people!"; "No! It is not cool to treat every encounter with the police as a street fight!" At the moment, and for a few decades now, all of the above ARE assumed to be cool in the hood, and all are daily occurrences as a result. And all of the above ideas have a SIGNIFICANT impact on the stats we all talk about. Is "systemic racism" a psychological condition, passed down from generation to generation, stemming from the trauma of historical racism? Is "internalized oppression" really appropriately used to describe this sort of rebellious, inferiority complex that leads destructive behaviors, rather than a pejorative for black conservatives?

These are all forbidden topics. And yet we can't solve our most urgent problems without addressing them.

[Atticus Finch]

33 minutes ago, badrouter said:

Misunderstandings, bad ideas and bad attitudes are all within control of the people having them. This is the case even if outside people/conditions helped to shape those bad attitudes etc. Prominent, influential figures need to step up and say "No! It is not cool to beat your lady up!"; "No! It is not cool to shoot and kill people!"; "No! It is not cool to treat every encounter with the police as a street fight!"

This is so corny and naïve that I'm embarrassed for you.

Telling people to stop shooting others has never worked in the entirety of human history.

It's flabbergasting how dumb your prescriptions are on this.

[Atticus Finch]

35 minutes ago, badrouter said:

These are all forbidden topics.

You live on another planet.

I don't know what's worse. Thinking that Venice was good at football last year or this.