Another fun filled weekend in Chicago

[Belly Bob]

9 hours ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

What if we raze it the ground and start over, maybe go back to Cain and Abel or the Garden of Eve?

What if….. hmmmnnn. 
 

The US is not lacking, at all…. And it does not have to be at the expense of the taxpayers. 

Back to the Garden is where we're trying to go, right?

If the US isn't lacking, then why are we well over $2 trillion in debt? 

My point was that if money from the government was the answer, then Native Americans would be thriving. But although Native Americans received reparations and have received social welfare at higher rates than any other group tracked by the federal governed for decades now (though it fluctuates over time, usually about half of all Native Americans receive some form of social welfare), they continue to have the highest rates of unemployment and poverty in the country. 

The Japanese, though they received reparations, do not receive social welfare in large numbers. They have among the lowest rates of poverty and unemployment in America, lower than white people, and are not only richer than white people (measured by median household income) but are increasing their wealth at a faster rate than white people. 

So my guess is that the answer is probably something other than government money. 

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

Just now, Belly Bob said:

Back to the Garden is where we're trying to go, right?

If the US isn't lacking, then why are we well over $2 trillion in debt? 

My point was that if financial assistance from the government was the answer, then Native Americans would be thriving. But although Native Americans received reparations and have received social welfare at higher rates than any other group tracked by the federal governed for decades now, they continue to have the highest rates of unemployment and poverty. 

The Japanese, who also received reparations, have among the lowest rates of poverty and unemployment in America, lower than white people, and are not only richer than white people (measured by median household income) but are increasing their wealth at a faster rate than white people. 

So my guess is that the answer is probably something other than government money. 

How many tons of gold do we possess… no nation is even close. 
 

I just read the opening sentence, don’t have much time past that. 
 

bgw

[Belly Bob]

10 minutes ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

How many tons of gold do we possess… no nation is even close. 
 

I just read the opening sentence, don’t have much time past that. 
 

bgw

I'm not sure what your point is.

Is it that the $2 trillion deficit we're carrying by early August is just a myth? 

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

9 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

I'm not sure what your point is.

Is it that the $2 trillion deficit we're carrying by early August is just a myth? 

Depends on your perspective of myth…. Just exact how many times has the budget been balanced?

bgw

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

9 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

Back to the Garden is where we're trying to go, right?

If the US isn't lacking, then why are we well over $2 trillion in debt? 

My point was that if money from the government was the answer, then Native Americans would be thriving. But although Native Americans received reparations and have received social welfare at higher rates than any other group tracked by the federal governed for decades now (though it fluctuates over time, usually about half of all Native Americans receive some form of social welfare), they continue to have the highest rates of unemployment and poverty in the country. 

The Japanese, though they received reparations, do not receive social welfare in large numbers. They have among the lowest rates of poverty and unemployment in America, lower than white people, and are not only richer than white people (measured by median household income) but are increasing their wealth at a faster rate than white people. 

So my guess is that the answer is probably something other than government money. 

Furthermore the parallel of how the natives were treated versus the the Japanese Americans is not a fair comparison, maybe the Maoris in New Zealand or the Africans in South Africa. 
 

Even that argument is fraught with problems. 
 

bgw

[Belly Bob]

3 hours ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

Furthermore the parallel of how the natives were treated versus the the Japanese Americans is not a fair comparison, maybe the Maoris in New Zealand or the Africans in South Africa. 
 

Even that argument is fraught with problems. 
 

bgw

The point wasn't that Japanese and Native Americans were treated the same way in the past. That's not something I claim.

The point was that if government money hasn't solved the problems facing Native American communities, it probably won't solve the problems facing African American communities either. 

The way in which government money affects different communities differently suggests that there is something intrinsic to the communities themselves which helps explain the differing outcomes. 

[Belly Bob]

5 hours ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

Depends on your perspective of myth…. Just exact how many times has the budget been balanced?

bgw

I believe it has been roughly balanced most years, excepting major wars, until the mid-80s, at the hight of the Cold War. I believe we had a surplus in the early 2000s, at which time we started to carry modest debt, at least by today's standards.

The debt tripled during the Great Recession. We were making some modest progress until Covid, when it tripled again.

So from about 2008 to 2020 it went from about 0.5 trillion to about 3 trillion. 

https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0023_federal-deficit-surplus

Though the deficit-to-GDP-ratio is generally believed to be more important than the deficit all by itself, I think most people think the growing deficit is a real issue. With respect to the ratio, it is the worse it has been since WWII, and we're not in a major war.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFSGDA188S

[World Citizen]

On 7/28/2021 at 3:10 AM, Belly Bob said:

It sounds like you also think that law enforcement should receive more funding, not less. I agree that bad cops should be held accountable, and I bet it would be easier for police departments to do so if they were better staffed and if there were more people willing to do the job. People don't want to police Chicago or Atlanta or Baltimore etc. 

No I don't think they need more money.  I doubt having more staff will do anything for the lack of accountability.  Only holding people accountable will address that.  Its a lack of will problem.  Once the public sees the police being held accountable, public-police interactions will be significantly better and will encourage more people willing to do the job.  

[Belly Bob]

4 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

No I don't think they need more money.  I doubt having more staff will do anything for the lack of accountability.  Only holding people accountable will address that.  Its a lack of will problem.  Once the public sees the police being held accountable, public-police interactions will be significantly better and will encourage more people willing to do the job.  

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that the reason why people don't want to work as police officers in Chicago or Atlanta or Baltimore is that the police aren't held accountable?

That seems implausible to me. 

I'm guessing it has more to do with the communities they have to police. Otherwise, it would be difficult to explain why most towns don't have trouble staffing their police departments. 

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

9 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

The point wasn't that Japanese and Native Americans were treated the same way in the past. That's not something I claim.

The point was that if government money hasn't solved the problems facing Native American communities, it probably won't solve the problems facing African American communities either. 

The way in which government money affects different communities differently suggests that there is something intrinsic to the communities themselves which helps explain the differing outcomes. 

Money is a part of the solution but not the cure all. Systemic racism and bias is the prevailing wedge. Coupled with implicit bias over generations. Look at Nolebull for example, that behavior is learned. Knee jerk reactions to a monetary solution is shallow, however it’s not the cure all.  Just a part. 
 

Complicated issues, bandaids on the symptoms haven’t worked. 
 

bgw
 

 

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

https://atlantablackstar.com/2021/08/07/in-a-defenseless-position-south-carolina-cop-charged-after-stomping-black-mans-head-into-concrete-thanks-to-911-caller-mistaking-the-mans-stick-for-a-weapon/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm
 

bgw

[World Citizen]

16 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that the reason why people don't want to work as police officers in Chicago or Atlanta or Baltimore is that the police aren't held accountable?

That seems implausible to me. 

I'm guessing it has more to do with the communities they have to police. Otherwise, it would be difficult to explain why most towns don't have trouble staffing their police departments. 

Yes, you are misunderstanding what I am saying.  My fault.  I am saying that the #1 problem between the public and the police is a lack of accountability.  When police departments can show that they are holding police accountable, the publics #1 problem is seen to be sincerely addressed, the distrust goes away.  So do the marches and subsequent riots because the people can see that they are being heard and their problems are being addressed.  Then, IMO, we would see more and better recruits signing up.  The code among the police is a real and difficult thing to address.  Even those who want to speak up are hesitant to do so because of all the problems that would result from it.  I can't say once that is done Chicago or Baltimore will see people rushing to sign up to police those cities because there will still be crime and it would still be a dangerous job.  Maybe if they instituted a local outreach program which encourages local people to become police officers.  If the trust and respect is there it would be easier.  Without accountability we will continue much as we have been and no significant improvement will take place.  

The police receive way too many calls that are much better suited to social workers, mental health, etc.  The police just are not as equipped or trained to deal with those calls.  Many times the call comes from a family member who is worried about someone that might hurt themselves or whatever and the police show up and a short while later that person is dead.  

I think I have very different ideas about policing and punishment than just about anybody I have talked to so I understand my views are not shared by many.  I think too many people are locked up unnecessarily and the for profit prison system should end.  Also, once people serve the time their voting rights should be reinstated immediately.  All non violent crimes should serve no jail time but instead should give back to the community through work or whatever would best serve all concerned parties.   

[rockinl]

Maybe Mayor Beetlejuice thinks they'll eventually kill all of each other off?

 

[Atticus Finch]

15 hours ago, rockinl said:

Maybe Mayor Beetlejuice thinks they'll eventually kill all of each other off?

rockinl always inarticulate enough that he has to call people names to cover his compete lack of substance.

[imaGoodBoyNow]

15 hours ago, rockinl said:

Maybe Mayor Beetlejuice thinks they'll eventually kill all of each other off?

 

 

16 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

rockinl always inarticulate enough that he has to call people names to cover his compete lack of substance.

Say his name

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/boy-4-fatally-shot-holiday-184300103.html

[Troll]

1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said:

I'm always inarticulate enough that I have to call people names to cover my compete lack of substance.

👍

💩🤡

🤣

[World Citizen]

On 9/6/2021 at 3:25 PM, rockinl said:

Maybe Mayor Beetlejuice thinks they'll eventually kill all of each other off?

 

Do you have any possible solutions to the gun violence in Chicago?  Or solutions to the gun problem in the country?  What is it you are trying to say?  Is it the Mayor's fault?  

[Nolebull813]

15 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

Do you have any possible solutions to the gun violence in Chicago?  Or solutions to the gun problem in the country?  What is it you are trying to say?  Is it the Mayor's fault?  

Yes it is part the mayors fault. It’s Democrat policies of defunding police, vilifying police, cashless bail, left wing prosecutors defending criminals, martyring criminals, societal rot, poverty, you name it. 
 

Democrats hold power from top to bottom in Chicago, Philly, Atlanta, New Orleans, Baltimore and every other third world city. They have for decades. That’s the problem. No checks and balances. 

[World Citizen]

2 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Yes it is part the mayors fault. It’s Democrat policies of defunding police, vilifying police, cashless bail, left wing prosecutors defending criminals, martyring criminals, societal rot, poverty, you name it. 
 

Democrats hold power from top to bottom in Chicago, Philly, Atlanta, New Orleans, Baltimore and every other third world city. They have for decades. That’s the problem. No checks and balances. 

You are not capable of being a serious person.  Save you simple rhetoric for somebody who thinks anything of you.  

[concha]

1 hour ago, World Citizen said:

You are not capable of being a serious person.  Save you simple rhetoric for somebody who thinks anything of you.  

 

We are told by the left that supposed problems with the police in our inner cities is "systemic".

After decades and generations of control over these cities, their governments, the police, schools, the local press... guess who "the system" is?

The left's propaganda machine has left far too many people with a ridiculously distorted view of reality.

And don't dare mention the weekly body count on the Southside.

According to the Washington Post database, that number was 12. The Mapping Police Violence database says the number was 27. 

 

[World Citizen]

5 hours ago, concha said:

I was specifically asking for solutions from @rockinl, if he had any, for addressing the gun violence in Chicago.  While I await his reply, you two critical thinkers chime in with the simple minded partisan rhetoric blaming Democrats for it all.   And of course you throw stupid meme...again.  You do this without the slightest hint of anything that would support your argument.  

 

We are told by the left that supposed problems with the police in our inner cities is "systemic".

Common sense tells you that part of the problem with the police is systemic.  Not confined to cities either as it is an inherent trait common to police departments which happens when accountability and trust are seen to be lacking.    Oh and btw, those who remained silent about Jan 6 insurrection and the beating of the police, as your fearless leader gleefully watched from a safe distance, should STFU forever about the police and the dangers of party politics.  

After decades and generations of control over these cities, their governments, the police, schools, the local press... guess who "the system" is?

Brilliant!  Nothing less than brilliant.  I like how you tie nothing together.    

More Democrats within a geographic location does not offer any insight into the problem of gun violence. There is correlation without any evidence of causality.  The fact that there has been a long long historical reality of racism from the police and the white people who, up until the great migrations, lived in the neighborhoods which made up the cities.  Black people who migrated to the north and west didn't escape racism and it didn't make everything equal.  

Introduce drugs, disproportionate actions by judicial system, poor schools, redlining, no chance for any generational wealth, can only get menial labor work, and do it for less than the next guy who also needs a job to feed his family, single parent homes, for profit prisons with a revolving door of re-offenders as opposed to rehabilitated, introduce guns (despite local or state laws) and you multiply that by several generations and...

The left's propaganda machine has left far too many people with a ridiculously distorted view of reality.

Lol.  You are so simple.   

And don't dare mention the weekly body count on the Southside.

Why not?  

 

According to the Washington Post database, that number was 12. The Mapping Police Violence database says the number was 27. 

Used this before.  Surprise me and do better.  We both know you can't though, don't we?  Just don't have a reasonable and thoughtful analysis on the subject.  

 

[concha]

51 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

 

 

Solutions?

Howsabout not voting for the guys who have governed over  poverty, high crime and shit schools for over half a century? I love how folks like you are oblivious to the fact that a certain party has governed over the main problem areas for most African-Americans. Promises made. Promises not kept. Cozy financial relationships with the teachers unions, while few kids can read and write anywhere near where they should be. 

The Dems running these places for decades have supposedly been working to help poor blacks. Many of these places are run by (Democrat) blacks, have (Democrat) blacks running the police forces, (Democrat) blacks running the schools... but the problem is "systemic"?  How are Democrats (and in recent times at every least in many places BLACK Democrats NOT the system? They've run these city machines for over half a century.

Not tying anything together? Are you not bright enough to add 2 and 2? (We know the lamentable answer)

I love how you point to the data I provided and call it a "meme". What an intellectual coward you are.

https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/civil-unrest-presidential-election-study/

Download the CUPES-007 report.

 

So many of the issues you point to have been overseen by... Democrats! Dems have run the courts, the city councils, the mayors offices, the police...  Joe Biden was the man behind three strikes, for God's sake. Kamala Harris kept men in prison for cheap labor. What did they do to attract businesses and jobs? Fuck all.

What is their reaction when school choice for these poor kids is mentioned? Well? It's "fuck no". Why?  Money. For unions. Which fuels donations to guess which party.

What happens to crime in poor black neighborhoods when Dems attack the police (using untruthful propaganda)?

When the last guy had black unemployment at record lows and wage growth for lower earners finally outpacing higher earners, what was done?  They called him a racist and attacked him mercilessly for four years. They shamelessly repeated the lie that he referred to white supremacists as good people.

You are a bootlicking turd.

 

[I AM IRONMAN]

7 hours ago, concha said:

 

Solutions?

Howsabout not voting for the guys who have governed over  poverty, high crime and shit schools for over half a century? I love how folks like you are oblivious to the fact that a certain party has governed over the main problem areas for most African-Americans. Promises made. Promises not kept. Cozy financial relationships with the teachers unions, while few kids can read and write anywhere near where they should be. 

The Dems running these places for decades have supposedly been working to help poor blacks. Many of these places are run by (Democrat) blacks, have (Democrat) blacks running the police forces, (Democrat) blacks running the schools... but the problem is "systemic"?  How are Democrats (and in recent times at every least in many places BLACK Democrats NOT the system? They've run these city machines for over half a century.

Not tying anything together? Are you not bright enough to add 2 and 2? (We know the lamentable answer)

I love how you point to the data I provided and call it a "meme". What an intellectual coward you are.

https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/civil-unrest-presidential-election-study/

Download the CUPES-007 report.

 

So many of the issues you point to have been overseen by... Democrats! Dems have run the courts, the city councils, the mayors offices, the police...  Joe Biden was the man behind three strikes, for God's sake. Kamala Harris kept men in prison for cheap labor. What did they do to attract businesses and jobs? Fuck all.

What is their reaction when school choice for these poor kids is mentioned? Well? It's "fuck no". Why?  Money. For unions. Which fuels donations to guess which party.

What happens to crime in poor black neighborhoods when Dems attack the police (using untruthful propaganda)?

When the last guy had black unemployment at record lows and wage growth for lower earners finally outpacing higher earners, what was done?  They called him a racist and attacked him mercilessly for four years. They shamelessly repeated the lie that he referred to white supremacists as good people.

You are a bootlicking turd.

 

Well said!

[concha]

"It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, mobile phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault, you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility.

When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.

Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colors, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.

They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.

They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.

Many law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.

If you want to protect your child, teach them respect."

 

~ Sheriff David Clarke

[World Citizen]

On 9/8/2021 at 11:16 PM, concha said:

 

Solutions?

Howsabout not voting for the guys who have governed over  poverty, high crime and shit schools for over half a century? I love how folks like you are oblivious to the fact that a certain party has governed over the main problem areas for most African-Americans. Promises made. Promises not kept. Cozy financial relationships with the teachers unions, while few kids can read and write anywhere near where they should be. 

The Dems running these places for decades have supposedly been working to help poor blacks. Many of these places are run by (Democrat) blacks, have (Democrat) blacks running the police forces, (Democrat) blacks running the schools... but the problem is "systemic"?  How are Democrats (and in recent times at every least in many places BLACK Democrats NOT the system? They've run these city machines for over half a century.

Not tying anything together? Are you not bright enough to add 2 and 2? (We know the lamentable answer)

I love how you point to the data I provided and call it a "meme". What an intellectual coward you are.

https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/civil-unrest-presidential-election-study/

Download the CUPES-007 report.

 

So many of the issues you point to have been overseen by... Democrats! Dems have run the courts, the city councils, the mayors offices, the police...  Joe Biden was the man behind three strikes, for God's sake. Kamala Harris kept men in prison for cheap labor. What did they do to attract businesses and jobs? Fuck all.

What is their reaction when school choice for these poor kids is mentioned? Well? It's "fuck no". Why?  Money. For unions. Which fuels donations to guess which party.

What happens to crime in poor black neighborhoods when Dems attack the police (using untruthful propaganda)?

When the last guy had black unemployment at record lows and wage growth for lower earners finally outpacing higher earners, what was done?  They called him a racist and attacked him mercilessly for four years. They shamelessly repeated the lie that he referred to white supremacists as good people.

You are a bootlicking turd.

 

I'm embarrassed for you.  Truly.