2018 Tier Placement - Final

[Belly Bob]

On 10/28/2018 at 10:35 PM, Sammyswordsman said:

Of course.  Coulquitt is ranked #1 all time in W/L record in hypothetical games (746-0) they could have actually scheduled 

That's impressive.

It's right up there with DLS's perfect record in end-of-the-year rematches against teams they lost to early in the season. 

[Belly Bob]

On 10/28/2018 at 6:10 PM, ECHS05 said:

Colquitt still not even Tier 2... My word.

Not a fucking one of you would pick half those teams actually on Tier 2 over Colquitt in a game.

I'd put Colquitt in Tier 2 if I put DLS in Tier 2.

But Sammy appeals to something he calls "3-D chess" to justify his rankings, which is strange since he has spent a lot of time articulating his criteria, which he himself doesn't actually use.

His real criterion is 3-D chess, whatever that is.

[Sammyswordsman]

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

I'd put Colquitt in Tier 2 if I put DLS in Tier 2.

But Sammy appeals to something he calls "3-D chess" to justify his rankings, which is strange since he has spent a lot of time articulating his criteria, which he himself doesn't actually use.

His real criterion is 3-D chess, whatever that is.

Trust the process 

[nptb17]

On 10/29/2018 at 11:09 AM, abbatt said:

Ohio is trending down and no Ohio poster wants to admit it. Your best teams....Hoban...Washington.......Mentor would all lose on the road at LWE...Warren central....CBC....Cass Tech. ..ESL......if the ESL/Washington game had been played at ESL....Washington would have been rolled by 3 TDS. Ohio and Illinois are pretty even from top to bottom. Ohio is still top 5-7 state but don`t pretend that it is as strong as it was.

Your Illinois top win over Ohio just went out in round 1.  Illinois will never be close to Ohio in depth.  

[Goldmember]

12 hours ago, badrouter said:

Delusional would be thinking STA's all-time playoff record vs. Lakeland was NOT 2-5. 😂

STA has 7 state championships since Lakeland's last one. That's more than Lakeland has in their entire history. In 6 of those 7 championship games, they either beat Lakeland or beat the team that eliminated Lakeland. Average score? 40-8.

The only reason Lakeland is 5-2 against STA is because they haven't been good enough to get to Orlando to take their whoopin' like Osceola, Plant and Viera.

None of the kids at STA today even know who Lakeland is. That's why you have to fluff their balls and beg for attention so much.

[Sammyswordsman]

Tier 1 - Mater Dei, IMG,  SJB, Carol City, NorthShore (TX)

 

Tier 2 -   STA,  Cen10, Allen, LIncoln Way East (IL), Miami Central, SJC, DLS, Colquitt County

 

Tier 3 -    Arch Bishop Hoban,  John Curtis, Katy, Chandler (AZ),   Mentor OH. ,  Warren Central (Ind),  Christian Brothers, Jserra, Centennial AZ,   West Monroe, Folsom,  Colerain, St. Louis (HI), ULAB (La), 

Tier 4 - , Massillon, St. Iggy,  Bergen Catholic,  Aledo,   SJP, ,  Muskegon (MI),  Grayson, SFA, Mission Viejo, St. Edwards (OH), Rome, Trinity Christian, Columbia (FL), De Matha, Parkview, Bishop  Gorman

Tier 5 -    Hoover, Lowndes,  SPP, St. X, Pick Central,  Jokes Christian,  Lakeland, SJR

 

Tier 6 -      Bingham,    Walton, North Gwinett,  DBP, Deerfield Beach, De Paul, Marietta, Pinnacle Az. Bishop amat, OLU, Blessed Trinity (Ga), Gonzaga, Good Council, Archer, Milton. Cass Tech (MI)

*teams will not be considered to be in a Tier until they score a point ( if they have played a game).

Below is an explanation of the Methodolgy used to place the teams on various Tiers.  The Tier concept recognizes that W/L records are a function of quality of opponent, and as such, RELEVANCY of opponent MUST be factored in.  The Tiers recognizes that in some cases, a 10-0 team (ranked in Top 100 by some outlets) could get blown off the field by a 5-5 (unranked) team that played a tougher schedule.  This is why the Tiers was created.

 

*Not attempting to rank every team, only the ones we discuss on this site.

* The Tiers are fluid and subject to extreme fluctuations early in the year, leveling out as the year progresses.

*Tier placements consider a teams entire body of work, however are weighted heaviest on recent games and game weights decrease in significance in reverse order.  In other words, early road OOS losses to relevant teams can be overcome as the season progresses.

*Teams placed on the same Tier can compete with other same Tier teams and possibly win 2+ of 10. 

*Basically there is a -10 point drop between tiers.  Could vary from a TD to 3 scores depending on the styles of teams playing.  This does not necessarily mean that there is a 30 point difference between Tier 1 and Tier 3, only that the chances of a Tier 3 team beating a Tier 1 team are exponentially less than the chances of a Tier 2 Team beating a Tier 1 team.

*It is possible for a team to lose by 10+ to a team on their same Tier, and still be 10+ points better than teams on the next lowest Tier.

*The Tiers will ultimately be made up of (16) teams per Tier that would form competitive playoff brackets.

*Texas teams generally have not played enough OOS games to gauge properly #crapshoot.  There must be a daisy chain OOS connection for a reference point.  Teams with no OOS daisy chain connection may not be placed on a Tier.  (Texas exempt)

*Tiers are based on exhaustive research, Multiple games watched, and good gut feelings.

*This is a crowd sourced rating. All input will be considered and adjustments will be made as appropriate

[NotBigdaddybloom]

Disappointed that the very very mediocre Rancho Cucamonga isn’t at least in tier 6!

signed

pops

[ohio]

On 10/29/2018 at 11:09 AM, abbatt said:

Ohio is trending down and no Ohio poster wants to admit it. Your best teams....Hoban...Washington.......Mentor would all lose on the road at LWE...Warren central....CBC....Cass Tech. ..ESL......if the ESL/Washington game had been played at ESL....Washington would have been rolled by 3 TDS. Ohio and Illinois are pretty even from top to bottom. Ohio is still top 5-7 state but don`t pretend that it is as strong as it was.

Come on now.   Us midwesterners should stick together.   If you want to mock states or regions, mock the Southern states that seem to have too many over ranked teams.  The top privates and some publics in the MW could easily play with the top Southern teams.  

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

31 minutes ago, ohio said:

Come on now.   Us midwesterners should stick together.   If you want to mock states or regions, mock the Southern states that seem to have too many over ranked teams.  The top privates and some publics in the MW could easily play with the top Southern teams.  

WHAT????😳😳😳

BGW

[Pops]

1 hour ago, NotBigdaddybloom said:

Disappointed that the very very mediocre Rancho Cucamonga isn’t at least in tier 6!

signed

pops

Explain

i dont remember ever discussing RC but I do like to say it 

[ohio]

6 minutes ago, Pops said:

Explain

i dont remember ever discussing RC but I do like to say it 

Ahhhh.....Jack Benny

 

[NotBigdaddybloom]

2 hours ago, Pops said:

Explain

i dont remember ever discussing RC but I do like to say it 

Rancho is a metaphor...change it to something something valley. lol

[Pops]

1 hour ago, NotBigdaddybloom said:

Rancho is a metaphor...change it to something something valley. lol

Are you saying Folsom is Rancho?

i don’t believe I’ve been pimping anyone else, certainly for tier placement 

are you saying Folsom is Rancho?

[Sammyswordsman]

Tier 1 - Mater Dei, IMG,  SJB, Carol City, NorthShore (TX),

 

Tier 2 -    Allen, LIncoln Way East (IL), Miami Central,  DLS, Colquitt County, STA, Cen10

 

Tier 3 -    Arch Bishop Hoban,  John Curtis, Katy, Chandler (AZ),   Mentor OH. ,  Warren Central (Ind),  Christian Brothers,     West Monroe, Folsom,  Colerain, St. Louis (HI), ULAB (La), SJC, Gonzaga, DeMatha, SFA

Tier 4 -  Massillon, St. Iggy,  Bergen Catholic,  Aledo,   SJP,  Muskegon (MI),  Grayson, Mission Viejo, St. Edwards (OH), Rome, Trinity Christian, Columbia (FL),  Parkview, JSerra, Jokes Christian, Centennial AZ

Tier 5 -    Hoover, Lowndes,  Bishop Gorman,  SPP, St. X, Pick Central,  Lakeland, SJR, Good Council,

 

Tier 6 -      Bingham, Walton, North Gwinett,  DBP, Deerfield Beach, De Paul, Marietta, Pinnacle Az. Bishop amat, OLU, Blessed Trinity (Ga),  Archer, Milton. Cass Tech (MI)

*teams will not be considered to be in a Tier until they score a point ( if they have played a game).

Below is an explanation of the Methodolgy used to place the teams on various Tiers.  The Tier concept recognizes that W/L records are a function of quality of opponent, and as such, RELEVANCY of opponent MUST be factored in.  The Tiers recognizes that in some cases, a 10-0 team (ranked in Top 100 by some outlets) could get blown off the field by a 5-5 (unranked) team that played a tougher schedule.  This is why the Tiers was created.

 

*Not attempting to rank every team, only the ones we discuss on this site.

* The Tiers are fluid and subject to extreme fluctuations early in the year, leveling out as the year progresses.

*Tier placements consider a teams entire body of work, however are weighted heaviest on recent games and game weights decrease in significance in reverse order.  In other words, early road OOS losses to relevant teams can be overcome as the season progresses.

*Teams placed on the same Tier can compete with other same Tier teams and possibly win 2+ of 10. 

*Basically there is a -10 point drop between tiers.  Could vary from a TD to 3 scores depending on the styles of teams playing.  This does not necessarily mean that there is a 30 point difference between Tier 1 and Tier 3, only that the chances of a Tier 3 team beating a Tier 1 team are exponentially less than the chances of a Tier 2 Team beating a Tier 1 team.

*It is possible for a team to lose by 10+ to a team on their same Tier, and still be 10+ points better than teams on the next lowest Tier.

*The Tiers will ultimately be made up of (16) teams per Tier that would form competitive playoff brackets.

*Texas teams generally have not played enough OOS games to gauge properly #crapshoot.  There must be a daisy chain OOS connection for a reference point.  Teams with no OOS daisy chain connection may not be placed on a Tier.  (Texas exempt)

*Tiers are based on exhaustive research, Multiple games watched, and good gut feelings.

*This is a crowd sourced rating. All input will be considered and adjustments will be made as appropriate

[DonnieWalsh]

Folsom is clearly Tier 2.

Anyone who argues otherwise, simply isn't watching football.

[StingMan44]

Centennial (AZ) dropped for what reason?? Their 55-7 quarterfinal win wasn’t good enough? 

[Sammyswordsman]

12 minutes ago, StingMan44 said:

Centennial (AZ) dropped for what reason?? Their 55-7 quarterfinal win wasn’t good enough? 

Centennial would be out matched in Tier 3.  Even JSerra (who beat Chandler) and Jokes got dropped to Tier 4 with Centennial.  No shame in being with this group. St. Eds, Muskegon, Rome,  JSerra and Jokes are probably better than Centennial AZ.

Plus please stop citing stats from games vs. teams that are several Tiers below said team.  Any team should blow out teams that are several Tiers below.  Exactly why no one cares the devil put up 50 points in a Qtr. vs. someone.  That speaks to weak opponents much more than prowess of winning team.

 

[DonnieWalsh]

7 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Exactly why no one cares the devil put up 50 points in a Qtr. vs. someone.

Quite the contrary. People do care. Go look at that thread and also tell me what other team put up 50 in a quarter, in a playoff game, against ANYONE.

I shall wait. 

[StingMan44]

12 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Centennial would be out matched in Tier 3.  Even JSerra (who beat Chandler) and Jokes got dropped to Tier 4 with Centennial.  No shame in being with this group. St. Eds, Muskegon, Rome,  JSerra and Jokes are probably better than Centennial AZ.

Plus please stop citing stats from games vs. teams that are several Tiers below said team.  Any team should blow out teams that are several Tiers below.  Exactly why no one cares the devil put up 50 points in a Qtr. vs. someone.  That speaks to weak opponents much more than prowess of winning team.

 

1. JSerra beat Pinnacle not Chandler

2. You say Centennial would be outmatched in Tier 3, yet thats where you had them last week and most of the season.

3. Citing recent results is very relevant when you drop a team down a tier for nothing they did or didn’t do on the field. 

4. The above 3 prove your reasoning is both inaccurate and flawed.

[Sammyswordsman]

2 minutes ago, StingMan44 said:

1. JSerra beat Pinnacle not Chandler

2. You say Centennial would be outmatched in Tier 3, yet thats where you had them last week and most of the season.

 

Thx for the clarification.

Tell me why Centennial should be in Tier 3.    What are the reasons should Centennial be moved up to Tier 3 above the teams I previously listed that would most likely beat them.  Last week was last week.....things change as more relevant data and reference points change from speculation to fact.  See SJC.

[StingMan44]

2 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Thx for the clarification.

Tell me why Centennial should be in Tier 3.    What are the reasons should Centennial be moved up to Tier 3 above the teams I previously listed that would most likely beat them.  Last week was last week.....things change as more relevant data and reference points change from speculation to fact.  See SJC.

WTF kind of logic is that????  SJC lost...Centennial didn’t.  

[Goldmember]

22 minutes ago, StingMan44 said:

WTF kind of logic is that????  SJC lost...Centennial didn’t.  

Incredibly stupid argument.

[Sammyswordsman]

27 minutes ago, StingMan44 said:

WTF kind of logic is that????  SJC lost...Centennial didn’t.  

You’re inability to think conceptually is astounding.  

[THEOC89]

1 hour ago, DonnieWalsh said:

Folsom is clearly Tier 2.

Anyone who argues otherwise, simply isn't watching football.

I Got This One!...🙂

I would say the Measuring Stick for Folsoms Tier Placement is The Bishop... Whatever Tier they are on Folsom should be on the same tier based on their play on the field.

The Bishop Scheduled 4 National Opponents and went 1-3 against, #1 or 2 MD, A Top 3 AZ Team Centennial,  A Top 5 Utah Team Orem (W), and of Course DLS. They got Shut out by MD, Lost a close one to AZ and Scored 21 Pints and Lost by 6 points to DLS. The have blown out the rest of their over-matched schedule as expected. 8-3 Record

Folsom Scheduled DLS and lost got Shut Out, their only other "Marquee" Scheduled Game was against a 7 Loss Chaminade team. They have blown out the rest of there over-matched schedule. 11-1 Record

I would argue The Bishop has a much better schedule and  lost 2 of those games by 12 points. They had a much more impressive performance against a common opponent DLS. The Bishop put up 21 points and lost by 6, Folsom was shut out and lost by 14. My belief is if Folsom played MD, they would have lost by the same score as BG did. If DLS can shut them out, I am sure MD would be up to the task. I also believe having seen both teams play, BG would win by at least 10 points, they are way too physical for Folsom.

So I am good with Folsom being on Tier 3... As long BG is put there along with them, because these are basically the same teams. BG had a Better Schedule and Better on-filed performance then Folsom. OR Folsom could move down to Tier 5 with BG... Because of all the reasons listed above....🙂

You Asked.......🤣🤣🤣

 

 

[Sammyswordsman]

14 minutes ago, THEOC89 said:

I Got This One!...🙂

I would say the Measuring Stick for Folsoms Tier Placement is The Bishop... Whatever Tier they are on Folsom should be on the same tier based on their play on the field.

The Bishop Scheduled 4 National Opponents and went 1-3 against, #1 or 2 MD, A Top 3 AZ Team Centennial,  A Top 5 Utah Team Orem (W), and of Course DLS. They got Shut out by MD, Lost a close one to AZ and Scored 21 Pints and Lost by 6 points to DLS. The have blown out the rest of their over-matched schedule as expected. 8-3 Record

Folsom Scheduled DLS and lost got Shut Out, their only other "Marquee" Scheduled Game was against a 7 Loss Chaminade team. They have blown out the rest of there over-matched schedule. 11-1 Record

I would argue The Bishop has a much better schedule and  lost 2 of those games by 12 points. They had a much more impressive performance against a common opponent DLS. The Bishop put up 21 points and lost by 6, Folsom was shut out and lost by 14. My belief is if Folsom played MD, they would have lost by the same score as BG did. If DLS can shut them out, I am sure MD would be up to the task. I also believe having seen both teams play, BG would win by at least 10 points, they are way too physical for Folsom.

So I am good with Folsom being on Tier 3... As long BG is put there along with them, because these are basically the same teams. BG had a Better Schedule and Better on-filed performance then Folsom. OR Folsom could move down to Tier 5 with BG... Because of all the reasons listed above....🙂

You Asked.......🤣🤣🤣

 

 

Excellent take.  I understand you weren’t directing this to me, but I have moved The Bishop to Tier 4