What up Texas?

[DevilDog]

2 hours ago, Horsefly said:

I didn’t say they couldn’t beat some 6As, it’s who they beat or how we define a team being “ as good as” is what I objected to. 

My point was specifically the h2h comparison between woodlands and Lamar to liberty hill.  

the 2d thing I objected to is how we define being “as good as”.  A team can beat someone in a one game series, but to be “as good as” also means they have the depth, durability and coaching to play in the team we are comparing them to schedule. These smaller schools can’t do that.  That’s why when cocoa started playing these big school schedules back to back they started losing. Same would be true for Carthage, Argyle, newton, etc. 

PROJECT A MATCHUP
neutral field
[2018] Carthage (TX) 35, [2018] Trinity (Euless, TX) 28

The same computer believes this.  Could it happen in a one game series where they play n Carthage goes back to their schedule? Maybe but doubtful. Does it mean that Carthage is “as good as” ET?  No it doesn’t. Carthage could not replace ET in 6A and do as well and compete on a week to week basis.   

 

Good debate.  Respect your opinion. I still feel the landscape has changed and these elite smaller teams have just as good facilities as the bigger schools and elite coaching.  I don't think the 10th ranked 4A would beat its counterpart in 6A. 

I also don't think just being 6A means more depth and talent.  That Skyline team I saw  has about 45 players and no way they would win 4A.  Even the Redskin thinks that.  They didn't look at all like Dville.  I thought Melissa and T C. Were better.

[maxchoboian]

Any of you remember Laviska Shenault when he played at DeSoto? He's a sophomore at Colorado now and tearing it up early this year. 6'2", 220 WR. Has 60 receptions for 800 yards and 6 TDs, and 15 rushes for 100 yards and 5 TDs. Send more of him this way.

[Horsefly]

11 minutes ago, maxchoboian said:

Any of you remember Laviska Shenault when he played at DeSoto? He's a sophomore at Colorado now and tearing it up early this year. 6'2", 220 WR. Has 60 receptions for 800 yards and 6 TDs, and 15 rushes for 100 yards and 5 TDs. Send more of him this way.

“Yes” he helped them win their first championship.  Caught passes from Shawn Robinson now at TCU. 

[maxchoboian]

2 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

“Yes” he helped them win their first championship.  Caught passes from Shawn Robinson now at TCU. 

 

15 minutes ago, maxchoboian said:

Send more of him this way.

 

[Horsefly]

Just now, maxchoboian said:

 

 

He has a younger brother at desoto now, pretty good player although he’s committed to TX Tech

[maxchoboian]

42 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

He has a younger brother at desoto now, pretty good player although he’s committed to TX Tech

Maybe we could get a picture of the dust storms in Lubbock to the younger brother, 

 

while his older bro is getting some knowledge in Boulder...

[Texasball]

11 hours ago, Horsefly said:

But my question is what would cocoa have done playing abilene’s Schedule with those injuries?  They would have been smoked.  Smaller schools can’t sustain a tough 6A schedule.  

Keep in mind by the time Abilene got to district play they were beaten and got whipped by cooper and fell apart in the POs.

I do not disagree with that theory.  Here is  my belief.

some areas have pockets of really good athletes / players - Programs like Carthage from time to time will have group of athletes that will allow them to compete vs much bigger schools who are competitive not just really bad ones. Good example of that is obviously Newton this year.

Longview is bad example as they are much closer to elite.  Someone below said that all 22 starters from Longview would start for Carthage.  I am not buying into that.  The Ingram killed is best RB at UT on roster that had some pretty good Young RB’s from bigger schools.

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Horsefly said:

 

[2018] Carthage (TX) 35, [2018] Trinity (Euless, TX) 28

The same computer believes this.  Could it happen in a one game series where they play n Carthage goes back to their schedule? Maybe but doubtful. Does it mean that Carthage is “as good as” ET?  No it doesn’t. Carthage could not replace ET in 6A and do as well and compete on a week to week basis.   

 

Yea, fuck that computer. 

Trinity would smoke Carthage, way too physical for them and Carthage doesn't have the depth. Trenches is what would really get those smaller schools killed.

Yall know I ain't really a believer in "this team is killing 3A, so they would do the same in 6A" mentality. Nah, not how it works in Texas.

Remember what Carthage was prior to dropping classifications? A very bad program, average at best. Same for Henderson and a bunch of others. Remember Georgetown?  They were top classification scrubs. The very 1st year they drop, they went all the way to state. lol John Tyler didnt even make playoffs in 6A last year and you all saw how they fared vs Cedar Hill and Longview this year. JT will win their district in 5A. 

I mean, Lufkin may be currently the best team in 5A. They wouldn't be #1 in 6A although they would be top 15 for sure. Just how it is. The higher up you play in classification, the tougher the competition. There's more talent, BETTER talent and better coaching. Everyone knows this, even the UIL knows it which is why they're trying to pre split every classification to make it more "fair".

Someone asked why other states are able to have amazing lower classification teams that can beat anyone regardless of classification but Texas can't. I'll tell you why: geography. Texas is one of the few states where EVERYONE is flocking to the cities (GHA, DFW, Austin etc) or large regional towns (Tyler, Odessa, Longview,  Waco, San Marcos etc) at an alarming rate. Rural Texas is slowly but surely dying.

Where as in Louisiana for example, theyre not seeing the population trend that Texas is so football numbers and talent are not vastly different throughout the classifications like they are here. There's not much disparity.

That's not to say Carthage couldn't beat some 6A's. I'm sure they'd murder valley and El paso 6A's of course and other low end to average 6A programs, but can they beat an Arlington or Plano East much less a Euless Trinity, hell no and those two programs aren't anywhere near elite 6A.

[Texasvic]

20 hours ago, DevilDog said:

No problem most would disagree.  I don't think that valley is as big as Texans think.  It only takes 22 kids to ball out.  This isn't the NFL.  I watched SJB vs. Mater Dei.  SJB has 3 kids that goes both ways.  Why didn't they get worn out?  6A is not some elite brand of football most of the kids on the sidelines suck and don't play either.  They just have more of the elite teams in State.  Liberty Hill is better than the majority of the teams in 6A.  Hell Midland Christian been beating 6A playoff teams in El Paso for Years.   Midland Christian is not some magical TAPPS program. 

WK 2.  #5 5A DI Hutto 52 - 51 OT over #3 4A DI Liberty Hill

Wk 3.  #5 5A DI Hutto 42 -39 over 6A Lamar  

 

The toughest game Hutto has had all year is Liberty Hill a 4A power. Not the 5A or 6A teams they played were tougher. 

Midland christian  beats 5a and 6a teams from el paso. The average ones that maybe sometimes sneaks in to the playoffs  not the good ones. Ep americas will probably miss the playoffs and chapin will maybe make it as 4th place in a weak district. Against the good ep teams they lose 7/10 times. Lets not act like midland christian doesnt get any talent either theyre good and could easily be a consistent  3 round deep playoff team in 5a in region 1 with an occasional 4th rd app. But i wouldnt say theyd win every ep district. Not even an rgv 6a district 5a yes. Ep and rgv districts usually got one top dog that can compete with out of town above average teams.

[DevilDog]

1 hour ago, Texasvic said:

Midland christian  beats 5a and 6a teams from el paso. The average ones that maybe sometimes sneaks in to the playoffs  not the good ones. Ep americas will probably miss the playoffs and chapin will maybe make it as 4th place in a weak district. Against the good ep teams they lose 7/10 times. Lets not act like midland christian doesnt get any talent either theyre good and could easily be a consistent  3 round deep playoff team in 5a in region 1 with an occasional 4th rd app. But i wouldnt say theyd win every ep district. Not even an rgv 6a district 5a yes. Ep and rgv districts usually got one top dog that can compete with out of town above average teams.

Wirh all that Talent you claim Midland Christian gets they are equal to 3A powers Brock and Wall.  I dont need a comparison score as proof.  Because they play them.  

6A Football teams are not as great as most Texans believe because they got 40 more fat kids on the sidelines holding helmets.  😁

The 1st 40 on Skyline is not very big or good.  How are they making it thru a 6A district?

T.C Cedar Hill can play with 5A & 6A with those athletes?  Why didn't they destroy a small 4A Melissa with 3 extremely talented kids?  Why was Jabray Young able to run over that much bigger stacked team. Who by the way are arguably the best in TAPPS.  No one would pick Dunne over them. Remember I saw Dunne vs. Desoto.  I was not impressed with either.   Both T.C. and Melissa have better skill kids on offense.  That Sanders kid from T.C and that QB from Melissa would show out against 6A kids.  

But I digress and shall put this to rest.  Let's hope a small slow ass Arkansas Team never comes back and stump another 6A power in Texas.  Or a small Venice Fl running over 6K Plano East.  I saw that too with @Texasball.  Bishop Dunne would catch hell beating Melissa.  

[DevilDog]

6 hours ago, WulfTangClan said:

Yea, fuck that computer. 

Trinity would smoke Carthage, way too physical for them and Carthage doesn't have the depth. Trenches is what would really get those smaller schools killed.

Yall know I ain't really a believer in "this team is killing 3A, so they would do the same in 6A" mentality. Nah, not how it works in Texas.

Remember what Carthage was prior to dropping classifications? A very bad program, average at best. Same for Henderson and a bunch of others. Remember Georgetown?  They were top classification scrubs. The very 1st year they drop, they went all the way to state. lol John Tyler didnt even make playoffs in 6A last year and you all saw how they fared vs Cedar Hill and Longview this year. JT will win their district in 5A. 

I mean, Lufkin may be currently the best team in 5A. They wouldn't be #1 in 6A although they would be top 15 for sure. Just how it is. The higher up you play in classification, the tougher the competition. There's more talent, BETTER talent and better coaching. Everyone knows this, even the UIL knows it which is why they're trying to pre split every classification to make it more "fair".

Someone asked why other states are able to have amazing lower classification teams that can beat anyone regardless of classification but Texas can't. I'll tell you why: geography. Texas is one of the few states where EVERYONE is flocking to the cities (GHA, DFW, Austin etc) or large regional towns (Tyler, Odessa, Longview,  Waco, San Marcos etc) at an alarming rate. Rural Texas is slowly but surely dying.

Where as in Louisiana for example, theyre not seeing the population trend that Texas is so football numbers and talent are not vastly different throughout the classifications like they are here. There's not much disparity.

That's not to say Carthage couldn't beat some 6A's. I'm sure they'd murder valley and El paso 6A's of course and other low end to average 6A programs, but can they beat an Arlington or Plano East much less a Euless Trinity, hell no and those two programs aren't anywhere near elite 6A.

Was the Cocoa team that beat Abilene bigger and more talented than 2017 Carthage?  No and every damn Lobo would not start at Carthage this year either.   The WR at Carthage Ingram's brother is probably a better player than anyone on Longviews team.  The QB is just as good and bigger as King and he has never lost.  They have a huge D1 OL kid.  That's 3 right there.  Now I guess PE would just kill those kids.  Why was Ingram the best RB in the whole State last year. Why can all those 6A kids not beat him

  Hell he ran 6A Kyle Porter away from the team. Notice he hasn't been on the sidelines the last 2 weeks.  Big bad Katy Tiger ran off the team by a lil 4A RB.  No way Ingram could have ran against 6A with those big ass 4A OLine at Carthage.  Lufkin or Longview haven't won a damn thing in 5A or 6A down or up.  Lufkin is 4 - 2 vs 5A Nacogdoches the last 6 yrs.  I'm willing to bet my house Carthage would have went 6 - 0.  Hell Gilmer 2 classes down went 2 - 0.   

Longview is elite in Texas that is not the norm of 98% of 6A 🏈.  B4 you go crazy on ET not so powerful athletic 5A teams have gave them. Hell.  Like Lancaster.  They have trouble with fast athletic teams.   Yet they feast on the Coppell's of 6A.

5A splitting and all this cross classification games have destroyed a lot of myths about bigger Schools being superior.  Funny Ingram can run over OU and Baylor but not a Texas 6A.  6A Katy Tiger Kyle Porter been there 3 yrs haven't run over anyone.  Yet he punked 6A.  .  

[Frosty4024]

6 hours ago, maxchoboian said:

Any of you remember Laviska Shenault when he played at DeSoto? He's a sophomore at Colorado now and tearing it up early this year. 6'2", 220 WR. Has 60 receptions for 800 yards and 6 TDs, and 15 rushes for 100 yards and 5 TDs. Send more of him this way.

The scary part...We weren't even after Shenault.  We were after Nixon.

Glad we got them both!

[DevilDog]

iI had a friend watch 5 of our State Championship games from last year.  He said Carthage was the 2nd or worst 3rd best team.  That's watching both 6A and both 5A and their game.  Unbiased about Texas.  Said only Allen was a more complete team of the teams he watched.  And he knows nothing of Allen  Lake Travis, Carthage or anyone.  Lives in South Carolina.   Of course it's just an opinion. 

[rockinl]

My argument is specifically about Carthage vs good 6A's. They wouldnt fare well. You'll never convince me otherwise and thats really not a cut on Carthage. They are an awesome 4A program. I fully understand what you are saying about a bunch of 5A and 6A teams that are terrible or maybe average at best. Texas has a bunch of them that the Bulldogs would beat. 

My comment about starters wasnt about Longviews starting 22 replacing all of Carthage, my argument is every one of Longviews starting 22 IF THEY MOVED TO CARTHAGE, would ALL be starters. Carthage has 4 or 5 that would be starters at Longview. Hell, Longviews whole starting offense was a field goal away from the 6A championship last year. Carthage doesnt have the trenches to hang with the "big boys", and I dont mean big boys in numbers, I mean big boys as in good Texas 6A ball. Lots of small schools have 1 or 2 skill players that can ball out anywhere. That doesnt mean they'd be in the 6A playoffs.

[Texasvic]

1 hour ago, DevilDog said:

Wirh all that Talent you claim Midland Christian gets they are equal to 3A powers Brock and Wall.  I dont need a comparison score as proof.  Because they play them.  

6A Football teams are not as great as most Texans believe because they got 40 more fat kids on the sidelines holding helmets.  😁

The 1st 40 on Skyline is not very big or good.  How are they making it thru a 6A district?

T.C Cedar Hill can play with 5A & 6A with those athletes?  Why didn't they destroy a small 4A Melissa with 3 extremely talented kids?  Why was Jabray Young able to run over that much bigger stacked team. Who by the way are arguably the best in TAPPS.  No one would pick Dunne over them. Remember I saw Dunne vs. Desoto.  I was not impressed with either.   Both T.C. and Melissa have better skill kids on offense.  That Sanders kid from T.C and that QB from Melissa would show out against 6A kids.  

But I digress and shall put this to rest.  Let's hope a small slow ass Arkansas Team never comes back and stump another 6A power in Texas.  Or a small Venice Fl running over 6K Plano East.  I saw that too with @Texasball.  Bishop Dunne would catch hell beating Melissa.  

Lol i never claimed midland christian gets alot of talent i just said they get good enough athletes to compete in a weak west texas. I have no idea what point youre trying to make ? Also didnt tc cedar hill beat mellisa? And no tc cedar hill is not even close to being the best tapps team neither is dunne. But please explain yourself. First you say oh yea mc has been besting 6a ep teams but then say a small private with good athletes got ran up on even tho they won against that 3a powerhouse then you say some random stuff about desoto. Im confused wether you like privates or not because personally i dont take em serious all i get from your random stuff is that you think 6a is overrated. No 4a, or 3a powerhouse would even get close to being a top 10 team in 6a shit even aledo would get smacked in the playoffs  and would probably lose once in a while in 6a , also lol you keep comparing individual talent to other teams, ok so small teams have good players ok so do big schools (ns got evans, lt got wilson, allen got wease) whats your point? Just because you play in a small school it doesn’t mean youre not better than anyone playing in a bigger class and vice versa

[DevilDog]

10 minutes ago, Texasvic said:

Lol i never claimed midland christian gets alot of talent i just said they get good enough athletes to compete in a weak west texas. I have no idea what point youre trying to make ? Also didnt tc cedar hill beat mellisa? And no tc cedar hill is not even close to being the best tapps team neither is dunne. But please explain yourself. First you say oh yea mc has been besting 6a ep teams but then say a small private with good athletes got ran up on even tho they won against that 3a powerhouse then you say some random stuff about desoto. Im confused wether you like privates or not because personally i dont take em serious all i get from your random stuff is that you think 6a is overrated. No 4a, or 3a powerhouse would even get close to being a top 10 team in 6a shit even aledo would get smacked in the playoffs  and would probably lose once in a while in 6a 

Ok.  I don't give a hoot about TAPPS. Cocoa beat a 6A top 3 with 35 kids on the road .  How did that happen?  The top 10 is not always the best 10 in 6A either.  That's another myth. I hope Ark keeps that slow unathletic team away from 6A.  The last time was embarrassing

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DevilDog said:

 The WR at Carthage Ingram's brother is probably a better player than anyone on Longviews team.  

Nah, you better ask somebody about Kamden Perry. That is without a doubt the best WR in East Texas. 

And size, who cares about size. Size isn't talent and we're talking talent. Longview has a 5'5 150 RB who is one of the most dangerous RB's I've seen this year. Dude can make cuts and lateral moves like no ones business. You think you have him bottled up for a yard loss then boom, he side steps you and picks up 15. But he won't go D1 because of size. You better believe based on pure ability, he's D1 like.

This is another reason 5A/6A is so dangerous, teams always have players who are every bit of great but won't go D1 due to size and other factors. A lot of silent killers in those two classifications. Not really the case 4A and down. 

[DevilDog]

Great football here is not limited to 1 class.  Plano East top 10 in DFW

  Alken hangs 70 on em. But if that was Carthage or Aledo it's proof of how great 6A is.  It is the most top heavy division in Texas.  Desoto and skyline are closer to Melissa and Carthage than Allen and NS.  And most 6A districts in DFW are not good outside  1 or 2 and lucky if 3 teams.  . 

Dave Campbell's had 2015 WOS top 15 in all of Texas. 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, rockinl said:

My argument is specifically about Carthage vs good 6A's. They wouldnt fare well. You'll never convince me otherwise and thats really not a cut on Carthage. They are an awesome 4A program. I fully understand what you are saying about a bunch of 5A and 6A teams that are terrible or maybe average at best. Texas has a bunch of them that the Bulldogs would beat. 

My comment about starters wasnt about Longviews starting 22 replacing all of Carthage, my argument is every one of Longviews starting 22 IF THEY MOVED TO CARTHAGE, would ALL be starters. Carthage has 4 or 5 that would be starters at Longview. Hell, Longviews whole starting offense was a field goal away from the 6A championship last year. Carthage doesnt have the trenches to hang with the "big boys", and I dont mean big boys in numbers, I mean big boys as in good Texas 6A ball. Lots of small schools have 1 or 2 skill players that can ball out anywhere. That doesnt mean they'd be in the 6A playoffs.

Here's a key example of what rockin l is getting at that will kill this entire talk.

SR RB Khameron Pippins at 2A Big Sandy has been monstrous throughout his career. His sophomore year in 2016, he was all state. Last year he led all of East Texas in rushing yards, he's having another great year this year. 

Here's the kicker, Pippins transferred to Big Sandy from Longview following his freshmen year. Why? Couldn't get playing time in a crowded Longview backfield that had better players.

 

[Guest]

And so much talk about Keontay Ingram.

I'm glad dude is killing it at Texas, lord knows we needed somebody back there who could run a ball. But some of you are acting like Carthage or lower classification players always kill it next level. Nope. It's actually an anomaly when that happens and Ingram is one of those. 

I can't remember the last Carthage player before Ingram that made a lot of noise in college. 

Meanwhile, pretty much anyone Longview sends D1 has made it all the way to the league. That holds true for many 5A/6A programs. Btw, Kyle Porter, much like any RB from Katy, was overrated as hell and I always knew he wouldn't pan out in college. Katy's system plus o-line helps those RBs a bunch in high school. They're system players and system players don't hold a candle to raw talent next level.

[DevilDog]

1 hour ago, WulfTangClan said:

Nah, you better ask somebody about Kamden Perry. That is without a doubt the best WR in East Texas. 

And size, who cares about size. Size isn't talent and we're talking talent. Longview has a 5'5 150 RB who is one of the most dangerous RB's I've seen this year. Dude can make cuts and lateral moves like no ones business. You think you have him bottled up for a yard loss then boom, he side steps you and picks up 15. But he won't go D1 because of size. You better believe based on pure ability, he's D1 like.

This is another reason 5A/6A is so dangerous, teams always have players who are every bit of great but won't go D1 due to size and other factors. A lot of silent killers in those two classifications. Not really the case 4A and down. 

Do you want me to post the Head to Head of 5A vs. 4A.  You will not like the results and it isn't what you think it is. 

[DevilDog]

1 hour ago, WulfTangClan said:

And so much talk about Keontay Ingram.

I'm glad dude is killing it at Texas, lord knows we needed somebody back there who could run a ball. But some of you are acting like Carthage or lower classification players always kill it next level. Nope. It's actually an anomaly when that happens and Ingram is one of those. 

I can't remember the last Carthage player before Ingram that made a lot of noise in college. 

Meanwhile, pretty much anyone Longview sends D1 has made it all the way to the league. That holds true for many 5A/6A programs. Btw, Kyle Porter, much like any RB from Katy, was overrated as hell and I always knew he wouldn't pan out in college. Katy's system plus o-line helps those RBs a bunch in high school. They're system players and system players don't hold a candle to raw talent next level.

Says you are wrong 

[DevilDog]

1 hour ago, WulfTangClan said:

Here's a key example of what rockin l is getting at that will kill this entire talk.

SR RB Khameron Pippins at 2A Big Sandy has been monstrous throughout his career. His sophomore year in 2016, he was all state. Last year he led all of East Texas in rushing yards, he's having another great year this year. 

Here's the kicker, Pippins transferred to Big Sandy from Longview following his freshmen year. Why? Couldn't get playing time in a crowded Longview backfield that had better players.

 

The best RBs that come out of East Texas are not the bigger Schools.    There have been several kids from Smaller Schools that transferred up and balled out here. 

Erick Dickerson, Billy Sims, Adrian Peterson, LaMichael James, Rodney Thompson, David Overstreet just off the top of my head.  Pretty hard to top that group I don't care how many AAAAAA's you have.   Hell even LT came out of a 4A School and there were two 4A and two 5A divisions back then .  So name all those old 5A and new 6A RB's to match that. 

[DevilDog]

1 hour ago, WulfTangClan said:

And so much talk about Keontay Ingram.

I'm glad dude is killing it at Texas, lord knows we needed somebody back there who could run a ball. But some of you are acting like Carthage or lower classification players always kill it next level. Nope. It's actually an anomaly when that happens and Ingram is one of those. 

I can't remember the last Carthage player before Ingram that made a lot of noise in college. 

Meanwhile, pretty much anyone Longview sends D1 has made it all the way to the league. That holds true for many 5A/6A programs. Btw, Kyle Porter, much like any RB from Katy, was overrated as hell and I always knew he wouldn't pan out in college. Katy's system plus o-line helps those RBs a bunch in high school. They're system players and system players don't hold a candle to raw talent next level.

Injuries derailed this kid.  This is what they have been producing. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/352085-dwight-smith-the-best-unknown-player-in-college-football

As a football player in high school, he was one of the best Texas has ever seen. He lead Carthage High School to their first ever division 3-A state championship in his senior season. During that season he rushed for a whopping 2,820 yards, 11.8 yards per carry and 43 touchdowns in a single season.

That included 272 yards and five touchdowns in the state championship game.

At 5'11, 225, he has the body to be a great running back. Add that to his hand timed 4.24 and 4.39 electronic timed 40 yard dash at a USC workout and his brute strength, and you have everything you need to be a dominating running back.

Smith had one visit to USC, and then it became the thought that he would never be able to play college football, so no teams gave him offers.

USC coaches said he was not only the best player to visit that year, but the best running back they've ever had visit. A player who is widely regarded as the best player in the state of Texas, and one of the best high school running backs ever, was very unlikely to even play a single down in college.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

Says you are wrong 

Rodney Anderson, who else?

Adam Taylor, Kyle Porter, Aundre Dean, Donovonn Young... none of those dudes were anything special in college.

1 panning out doesn't speak for a bunch of others who didn't. That's what we call an anomaly. Glass is next man up, maybe he can break the trend.