Who’s been to Italy 🇮🇹 Before? Buying retirement gift for Momma Dukes

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

As anyone been there lately. what’s the cheapest way to travel across italy ? Do they have a Hertz auto rental for a car or does everyone drive Scooters 🛴 there

[Troll]

1 hour ago, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

As anyone been there lately. what’s the cheapest way to travel across italy ? Do they have a Hertz auto rental for a car or does everyone drive Scooters 🛴 there

For some reason (probably due to Hog's recommendation on furniture), while picturing you, in NNJ asking this.....

and not even thinking of.....

 

😂

They still around??

 

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

1 hour ago, Drummer61 said:

 

Do a lot of research and don't miss Florence, the Colisium or the Vatican 

They been doing research for years  I’m just gonna surprise them with the plane tickets and Mabe the first hotel, I know they wanna go to Naples Rome Milan Venice Florence 

[BigDrop]

I sold in Italy for 30 years, also represented an Italian company and have been almost everywhere.  Venice is the most spectacular and you can fly from the US with one stop.  You’re one hour south of the Italian Alps and can easily drive there.  (Google “Cortina”) An hour west is Verona which is Romeo and Juliet’s medieval town and it’s own 2000 year old coliseum that has incredible outdoor opera that people come from all over the world to see.  Bologna is 2+ hours south and unknown by Americans.  Fantastic city to spend several days in.  Then Florence is an hour south of this.  Then Rome.

You can take a train to all of this.  European trains are far more efficient than here.

You should also consider Positano and Calabria in southern Italy.  

Yes, there is Hertz in all of the airports.  They could pick up a car in one airport and drop it off in their final city or airport.  I would strongly suggest driving if they are comfortable.  Verona, Cortina, Positano and Calabria will have very few Americans but a lot of English, German and Asian tourists.

Milan is not a big deal.  Nor Naples although Positano is near.  

Important:  do NOT go in the summer.  Go in May or September.  How much are you willing to spend for a hotel?  Venice is expensive.  Daniel i is first choice (US 400-700 a night?), alternatively Europa y Regina which is a four star just off of San Zmarco square with canal facing rooms.  Probably US 300-500. 

The Danieli has three or four rooms with very small balconies that are directly over the canal where gondoliers stop and serenade their guests.  Among the most spectacularly romantic rooms of any hotel in the world.  ($800-1,000 a night+.  Reserve DIRECTLY with the hotel for these rooms and can a written confirmation which includes the room number.)

My wife and I stayed in these rooms for two nights as part of our retirement. I also wrote the following and was told that it has had over one million hits.  There is a lot in it that they will find interesting.  Most of the restaurants are still there.

Google-  “Chowhound:  Venice the great binge of ‘09”

 

 

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

6 hours ago, Troll said:

For some reason (probably due to Hog's recommendation on furniture), while picturing you, in NNJ asking this.....

and not even thinking of.....

 

😂

They still around??

 

My dads 100% Italian... he’d be Damned if he payed money for someone to take him on a tour.... The Guy goes on Mystery Rides with my mom  just to explore .. like he drives till he gets lost then he explores... He probably would want to do his own tour in italy

[Wosinc]

 

Drive to the city, park on the outskirts, then use public transportation or taxi.

Driving in the cities is often a bitch, and parking is at a premium.

Plus they have this sneaky thing where if you drive in certain sections of a city and your license number isn’t on a list the police have you can get a ticket just for being there.

Picking up a rental car in the city can be dicey.  The rental company is supposed to inform the police that your license number is authorized but have been known to forget.

Driving in the north of Italy (Tuscany, up near Lake Como, etc.) is ok but do not try to drive if you go to the Amalfi Coast, Naples, etc.  Do not drive in Rome.

Roads are about as wide as a car and a half and the Italian drivers are insane.

[BigDrop]

The Amalfi Coast (Positano) is extraordinarily beautiful.  I think that is it in the photo above.  The road to it is nightmarishly narrow with the very edge often perched over a 200, 300’+ drop that starts literally at the edge of the pavement.

I sold rides to Gardaland (on Lake Garda) with the result that I spent a lot of time getting lost on the roads around it.  Sometimes unintentionally.  This along with Lake Como and Lake Maggiore are gorgeous areas to explore.  Bellagio could be a home base or Verona look at the Gabbie D’ior hotel which is in the center of the Old Town and arguably the best hotel in Verona.  The Roman amphitheatre is an extraordinary outdoor experience for the opera regardless of whether there is an appreciation of opera or not. It is also open to the public just to walk around and explore.

Are they into wine?  Soave is the 1500 year old walled city which is the home of the wine consortium of the Veneto.  As Lake Garda is 20 minutes west of Verona Soave is 20 minutes east.  (Venice about an hour.). Cortina which is arguably the most breathtakingly beautiful city in the Italian Alps is 90 minutes northeast.  

These towns and the lakes are the heart and soul of northern Italy.  If your dad is confidant and adventurous he must drive through this area.  If necessary a navigation system in the rental car can guide him.  Apologetically to the post above I passionately believe in staying in the center of a town or city.  I want to walk out a door and be in the middle of everything.

For Venice you do not want a car.  They will also want to go to Murano (exquisite crystal) or Burano  (finest lace in the world).  Both are islands.  In fact they should ride IN FRONT of the Vaparetto (water “busses”) on seats outside the cabin as they wind their way through the canals.

South from Verona, inland (as opposed to coming down the coast to Rimini which is sort of the Italian Myrtle Beach) you will end up in Bologna or Florence.

Florence is the only city in Europe that I would not drive in again.  You will compete with bicycles as well as pedestrians on narrow intimidating streets which have no logic or plan in how they are laid out.  Both the Grand and the Excelsior are five star hotels on the river at the edge of the Old Town.  You could drive to them, park and then walk for the center of Florence.

South of Florence is an incredibly beautiful drive through the hills of Tuscany including the towns of Greve en Chianti and Panzano.  Siena is south of this.  Just get lost and explore.  

Rome is driveable but a large city.  You really would not want to drive in the center of it either.

Please look at my Chowhound essay noted above.  Your parents may relate to some of our experiences since this was my wife’s retirement trip.

We are also very much into food and dining out. ( I am a retired James Beard Judge which is totally meaningless today.). I note this since there is truly great food in Italy some of which takes research and planning to have.  Dal Pescatore is a Michelin Three Star an hour north of Bologna (easy drive) which John Mariani in Esquire called the “Best restaurant in the world.”). The owner and his wife raise their own chickens (my rental car window was open an inch and chicken feathers had drifted onto the driver’s seat when I returned), grow their saffron, make their own 91% butter (incredibly rich), etc.

You need to reserve well in advance.

Thete is also much to be said for going to places that few Americans go to.  Rome, Florence and Venice can be overrun with Americans.

Best of luck for their trip!

[concha]

I once drove from Rome down through Naples to Positano.

I've also spent years driving in places like the Dominican Republic where rules of the road are non-existent, but the coast road heading south to Positano is a "change your shorts" experience.  My side mirror was actually struck as a car headed by the other way. It's that tight. And it's seriously, seriously beautiful but the drop to the sea below is scary.

Highly recommend taking a launch from Positano to Capri. Great day trip.

[Wosinc]

Both of those photos are of the Amalfi Coast.

They don’t do justice to how narrow and windy the roads are.

One certainly CAN drive there, but it would be incredibly nerve-wracking.

Hitting side mirrors is a common occurrence.

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:50 PM, BigDrop said:

The Amalfi Coast (Positano) is extraordinarily beautiful.  I think that is it in the photo above.  The road to it is nightmarishly narrow with the very edge often perched over a 200, 300’+ drop that starts literally at the edge of the pavement.

I sold rides to Gardaland (on Lake Garda) with the result that I spent a lot of time getting lost on the roads around it.  Sometimes unintentionally.  This along with Lake Como and Lake Maggiore are gorgeous areas to explore.  Bellagio could be a home base or Verona look at the Gabbie D’ior hotel which is in the center of the Old Town and arguably the best hotel in Verona.  The Roman amphitheatre is an extraordinary outdoor experience for the opera regardless of whether there is an appreciation of opera or not. It is also open to the public just to walk around and explore.

Are they into wine?  Soave is the 1500 year old walled city which is the home of the wine consortium of the Veneto.  As Lake Garda is 20 minutes west of Verona Soave is 20 minutes east.  (Venice about an hour.). Cortina which is arguably the most breathtakingly beautiful city in the Italian Alps is 90 minutes northeast.  

These towns and the lakes are the heart and soul of northern Italy.  If your dad is confidant and adventurous he must drive through this area.  If necessary a navigation system in the rental car can guide him.  Apologetically to the post above I passionately believe in staying in the center of a town or city.  I want to walk out a door and be in the middle of everything.

For Venice you do not want a car.  They will also want to go to Murano (exquisite crystal) or Burano  (finest lace in the world).  Both are islands.  In fact they should ride IN FRONT of the Vaparetto (water “busses”) on seats outside the cabin as they wind their way through the canals.

South from Verona, inland (as opposed to coming down the coast to Rimini which is sort of the Italian Myrtle Beach) you will end up in Bologna or Florence.

Florence is the only city in Europe that I would not drive in again.  You will compete with bicycles as well as pedestrians on narrow intimidating streets which have no logic or plan in how they are laid out.  Both the Grand and the Excelsior are five star hotels on the river at the edge of the Old Town.  You could drive to them, park and then walk for the center of Florence.

South of Florence is an incredibly beautiful drive through the hills of Tuscany including the towns of Greve en Chianti and Panzano.  Siena is south of this.  Just get lost and explore.  

Rome is driveable but a large city.  You really would not want to drive in the center of it either.

Please look at my Chowhound essay noted above.  Your parents may relate to some of our experiences since this was my wife’s retirement trip.

We are also very much into food and dining out. ( I am a retired James Beard Judge which is totally meaningless today.). I note this since there is truly great food in Italy some of which takes research and planning to have.  Dal Pescatore is a Michelin Three Star an hour north of Bologna (easy drive) which John Mariani in Esquire called the “Best restaurant in the world.”). The owner and his wife raise their own chickens (my rental car window was open an inch and chicken feathers had drifted onto the driver’s seat when I returned), grow their saffron, make their own 91% butter (incredibly rich), etc.

You need to reserve well in advance.

Thete is also much to be said for going to places that few Americans go to.  Rome, Florence and Venice can be overrun with Americans.

Best of luck for their trip!

Yes huge wine 🍷 enthusiasts.  ... 

 

where  would you say is the best areas with the best Restaurants and  Vin-yards they can visit  

[Bormio]

15 minutes ago, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

Yes huge wine 🍷 enthusiasts.  ... 

 

where  would you say is the best areas with the best Restaurants and  Vin-yards they can visit  

Verona is a great smaller city, less than an hour by train from Venice.  2nd best wine area in Italy (the Valpolicella) - home of Amarone. (Best is the Piemonte).  Florence is spectacular, Rome a bit less so.  The Roman ruins were a bit meh, the Vatican museum is first rate.  I would not worry about fancy restaurants, many local places serve amazing food.  I can vouch for Cortina - but more German than Italian.  I have been to Italy 10 times and cycled much of the country.  The out of the way places can be great too.

[AztecPadre]

On 1/13/2019 at 6:28 AM, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

As anyone been there lately. what’s the cheapest way to travel across italy ? Do they have a Hertz auto rental for a car or does everyone drive Scooters 🛴 there

Do it the old school way and hitch a ride on a boat and sail across the seas.  Can't be more than a few bones. Or is it shillings?

[AztecPadre]

On 1/13/2019 at 8:33 AM, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

They been doing research for years  I’m just gonna surprise them with the plane tickets and Mabe the first hotel, I know they wanna go to Naples Rome Milan Venice Florence 

Not seeing any Sicily on that list.  Palermo.  Godfather tour.  Lots of stuff.  Forget Naples and Milan. Rome and then head on down to the the little  island where men are made.

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

1 hour ago, AztecPadre said:

Do it the old school way and hitch a ride on a boat and sail across the seas.  Can't be more than a few bones. Or is it shillings?

I don’t think my dad can handle a 15 day trip on a cruise 🚢 

[AztecPadre]

8 minutes ago, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

I don’t think my dad can handle a 15 day trip on a cruise 🚢 

Haha.  How you think his ancestors got here?  

[BigDrop]

On 1/15/2019 at 8:37 PM, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

Yes huge wine 🍷 enthusiasts.  ... 

 

where  would you say is the best areas with the best Restaurants and  Vin-yards they can visit  

Tuscany, the Piedmont and my favorite of all, the Veneto as noted above.  For amarone both Quintarelli and Dal Forno are superb and incredibly expensive, E 250- E350 depending on where you but it.  They both also make outstanding valpolicella.  Dal Forno’s is E 35 if you but it in the walled city of Soave, E 50+ in Verona or Venice.  I also like some of the wine from the Marche region. In the Piedmont I’m guessing that Bormio prefers Barolo which is indeed, superb.  The best of it is priced like the best of amarone (entirely different red wines in style and taste).

Amarone is my personal favorite wine of all.  In Italy you’ll find good amarone for E50-60 but for excellent (I.e. Sergio Zenato) you’ll have to go over E100.  Again, Quintarelli and Dal Forno are the world’s  best.

My Chowhound article (noted earlier) is still appropriate.

Also, be jealous of Bormio:  cycling Italy is one of life’s greatest experiences.

[Bormio]

14 minutes ago, BigDrop said:

Tuscany, the Piedmont and my favorite of all, the Veneto as noted above.  For amarone both Quintarelli and Dal Forno are superb and incredibly expensive, E 250- E350 depending on where you but it.  They both also make outstanding valpolicella.  Dal Forno’s is E 35 if you but it in the walled city of Soave, E 50+ in Verona or Venice.  I also like some of the wine from the Marche region. In the Piedmont I’m guessing that Bormio prefers Barolo which is indeed, superb.  The best of it is priced like the best of amarone (entirely different red wines in style and taste).

Amarone is my personal favorite wine of all.  In Italy you’ll find good amarone for E50-60 but for excellent (I.e. Sergio Zenato) you’ll have to go over E100.  Again, Quintarelli and Dal Forno are the world’s  best.

My Chowhound article (noted earlier) is still appropriate.

Also, be jealous of Bormio:  cycling Italy is one of life’s greatest experiences.

The comments about Amarone (and cycling) are spot on.

[Cossacks]

On 1/15/2019 at 6:12 PM, AztecPadre said:

Not seeing any Sicily on that list.  Palermo.  Godfather tour.  Lots of stuff.  Forget Naples and Milan. Rome and then head on down to the the little  island where men are made.

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:17 AM, Troll said:

For some reason (probably due to Hog's recommendation on furniture), while picturing you, in NNJ asking this.....

and not even thinking of.....

 

😂

They still around??

 

Apparently they are lol

 

[imaGoodBoyNow]

On 1/13/2019 at 2:39 PM, BigDrop said:

I sold in Italy for 30 years, also represented an Italian company and have been almost everywhere.  Venice is the most spectacular and you can fly from the US with one stop.  You’re one hour south of the Italian Alps and can easily drive there.  (Google “Cortina”) An hour west is Verona which is Romeo and Juliet’s medieval town and it’s own 2000 year old coliseum that has incredible outdoor opera that people come from all over the world to see.  Bologna is 2+ hours south and unknown by Americans.  Fantastic city to spend several days in.  Then Florence is an hour south of this.  Then Rome.

You can take a train to all of this.  European trains are far more efficient than here.

You should also consider Positano and Calabria in southern Italy.  

Yes, there is Hertz in all of the airports.  They could pick up a car in one airport and drop it off in their final city or airport.  I would strongly suggest driving if they are comfortable.  Verona, Cortina, Positano and Calabria will have very few Americans but a lot of English, German and Asian tourists.

Milan is not a big deal.  Nor Naples although Positano is near.  

Important:  do NOT go in the summer.  Go in May or September.  How much are you willing to spend for a hotel?  Venice is expensive.  Daniel i is first choice (US 400-700 a night?), alternatively Europa y Regina which is a four star just off of San Zmarco square with canal facing rooms.  Probably US 300-500. 

The Danieli has three or four rooms with very small balconies that are directly over the canal where gondoliers stop and serenade their guests.  Among the most spectacularly romantic rooms of any hotel in the world.  ($800-1,000 a night+.  Reserve DIRECTLY with the hotel for these rooms and can a written confirmation which includes the room number.)

My wife and I stayed in these rooms for two nights as part of our retirement. I also wrote the following and was told that it has had over one million hits.  There is a lot in it that they will find interesting.  Most of the restaurants are still there.

Google-  “Chowhound:  Venice the great binge of ‘09”

 

 

Soooo No Venice I don’t think so hotel Daniel i is off table... what are the best hotels in Rome...?Florence, amalfi coast??

[ChimpGrip]

On 1/13/2019 at 8:28 AM, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

As anyone been there lately. what’s the cheapest way to travel across italy ? Do they have a Hertz auto rental for a car or does everyone drive Scooters 🛴 there

I have never been, but would love to go. The scenery is fantastic as is the food, I’ve heard. Beautiful women too (not the best feet though). 

[taojoe]

For retirement age folks, imo the best bet is to get a hotel in central part of a city, explore local sights on foot and local transportation, then take day tours to nearby areas.  Need at least 3/4 days in the largest cities to do this.  E.g., from Milan (most modern but least interesting major city imo, although it's Duomo is magnificent and Michaelangelo's Last Supper mural is in a small church there), she can take day trips to Cinque Terre (no flip flops allowed, rescue squads overworked rounding up stranded tourists who break down walking the trails, and they'll charge a lot to come get you), Lake Como and southern Switzerland, Turin/Piedmont/Lake Maggiore, etc.  Then take high speed train to Venice if desired, but be aware the city is overrun with tourists from the cruise ships that dock in the lagoon, and is trying to control the damage being done, e.g. the city is now fining tourists who sit in non-designated areas.  Also be aware that San Marco the main tourist spot is not infrequently semi-flooded nowadays.  The lagoon islands of Murano and Burano are well-worth a day trip.  When we went there, on the Friday we were leaving, George Clooney and entourage were arriving for his wedding.  Sadly, we weren't on the guest list, so we took a high-speed train (yes, great train service in Italy) to Florence.  Beautiful city, and the Uffizi and the Accademia Galleries are world class museums.  The Accademia, besides David, has a number of unfinished scultures by Michaelangelo...fascinating to me to see the figures emerging from the solid marble.  Both museums have hundreds of works by the greatest of the Renaissance artists, as do, btw, many of the dozens of churches in these cities (probably especially Rome).  Take day-trip tours to Lucca/Pisa, Siena/San Gimignano, Chianti region and/or Montepulciano for excellent wine tastings.  High-speed train it to Roma...no need to take day trips here, more than enough in/around the city to fill up a week, the Vatican, Colosseum, Spanish Steps, Villa Borghese Gardens and Gallery, catacombs and so much more.  Unless she's a big fan of pizza and wants to pay homage to it's birthplace, I would avoid Naples.  All Italian cities are full of Vespas speeding around town but Napolitaneans are the most lethal drivers.  The city is full of pick pockets as well, as well as the Camorra, the Napolitan equivalent of the Mafia.  Interesting things to see there but not my cup of tea.  Take the high speed train instead just a little further to Salerno, where she can get the local SITA bus service, the most efficient, inexpensive and safest way around the Amalfi Coast, my favorite part of Italy.  Stay at a hotel in Amalfi or Positano, but be sure to get to Ravello as well.  Take a day trip tour to Vesuvius/Pompeii/Herculaneum.  The isle of Capri is also just a short boat ride away.  I haven't been anywhere else in Italy, so this ends my tour.  As Big Drop has so completely detailed, there are dozens of other smaller but fascinating places to go, and ways to explore everything, but if this is a one and done trip imo these are the must see places and the best ways to get around and maximize your time there.  Can't give you any 5 star hotels because I've never stayed in one there, but lots of good value rooms if you research a bit.  For meals, ask the desk clerks/concierges for restaurants where the locals go; my best advise is if you pass a restaurant where an employee is out front holding menus, do not go in.  For what it's worth, a couple of hours north of Florence, in the town of Modena, is Osteria Francescana, which 60 Minutes recently did a piece on after it was ranked the best restaurant in the world in The World's 50 Best Restaurants List.  Might take a while to get a reservation there though.  Lastly, as has been mentioned, do not go in summer.  And buon viaggio to the Momma Dukes!

[BigDrop]

3 hours ago, imaGoodBoyNow said:

Soooo No Venice I don’t think so hotel Daniel i is off table... what are the best hotels in Rome...?Florence, amalfi coast??

Florence is the Grand and the Excelsior-both on the river with the Old Town adjacent.  Very expensive. Le Sirenuse is legendary on the Amalfi coast.  Photos are breathtaking.  Prices are, too. 

[HSFBfan]

On 1/13/2019 at 9:28 AM, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

As anyone been there lately. what’s the cheapest way to travel across italy ? Do they have a Hertz auto rental for a car or does everyone drive Scooters 🛴 there

My parents got a driver and they used the trains. 

[Bormio]

11 hours ago, ChimpGrip said:

I have never been, but would love to go. The scenery is fantastic as is the food, I’ve heard. Beautiful women too (not the best feet though). 

But great calves - all those spiked high heels on cobblestones - quite remarkable to watch.