Pops Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Goldmember said: No, they're not. One's a preseason game which the team is not trying to win with a roster of players in which half will be selling insurance in a month. This is a dumb comparison much like your Nike Camp analogy. Ok, say week one vs Suoer Bowl go ahead and try to tell everyone these are equivalent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, Pops said: Objective truths? Yes. It's objectively true that a high school football game in September is the same as one in November. Same length, rules, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 57 minutes ago, Pops said: FIFY I love it when Pops reveals to everyone why he's so bad at evaluations. He thinks that a high school football game being the same, regardless of the month, is a lame opinion instead of what it really is: an objective truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 52 minutes ago, Pops said: How many times would you like to try to misrepresent your opinion as.......... ....... an objective truth? As long as you continue to misunderstand what opinion and truth are which seems to be a long, long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 51 minutes ago, Pops said: Ok, say week one vs Suoer Bowl go ahead and try to tell everyone these are equivalent Same game, same rules, played between the same lines. There's no objective difference between them. The things that make them "different", like neutral field, long halftime, etc., are arbitrary and imposed by authority. The best algorithms in the business, like FPI, ELO, etc. don't give the Super Bowl any additional weight as an evaluative tool. The only people who do are clueless couch potatoes like you who spout cliches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Goldmember said: Same game, same rules, played between the same lines. There's no objective difference between them. The things that make them "different", like neutral field, long halftime, etc., are arbitrary and imposed by authority. The best algorithms in the business, like FPI, ELO, etc. don't give the Super Bowl any additional weight as an evaluative tool. The only people who do are clueless couch potatoes like you who spout cliches. What makes them different is one if for a championship and one isn't Championship is always more important than a regular season game, it don't take a genius to get that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT4Spartan06 Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Columbiafan said: What makes them different is one if for a championship and one isn't Championship is always more important than a regular season game, it don't take a genius to get that I hear you man however, just because winning a championship game results in a trophy at the end, it does not objectively show that a team is better than the team that beat them earlier in the year and has similar resume. I don't think anyone is arguing the importance of one game over the other, seems like the dispute is against the claim that whoever wins the second game is definitively better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StingMan44 Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 @Sammyswordsman go ahead and listen to this podcast from an Arizona HS Football Media member....I suggest starting at 1:08:15 https://arizonavarsity.rivals.com/news/the-arizona-varsity-2018-championship-podcast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 30 minutes ago, LT4Spartan06 said: I hear you man however, just because winning a championship game results in a trophy at the end, it does not objectively show that a team is better than the team that beat them earlier in the year and has similar resume. I don't think anyone is arguing the importance of one game over the other, seems like the dispute is against the claim that whoever wins the second game is definitively better. Oh ik that If a team splits it's going to take a lot of research to argue which is better, if one wins in a blowout fashion then loses a close one i would lean to who did better in their win Then it's important to see was any major roster differences were there in 1 game vs the other Most of the time i would say they were equal if they split (like Miami Central and Carol City or Columbia and Lee) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted November 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 28 minutes ago, StingMan44 said: @Sammyswordsman go ahead and listen to this podcast from an Arizona HS Football Media member....I suggest starting at 1:08:15 https://arizonavarsity.rivals.com/news/the-arizona-varsity-2018-championship-podcast I think the podcast guy is a little to hung up on records and not on opponents, however he makes good points for Centennials case regarding the BG comparative game vs. DLS. Looks like the game tomorrow should be vs. a good opponent. Even though Cen10 whipped them last year, but the other teams QB is coming back as a senior. I will be paying close attention to the results. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal 14 Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 3 hours ago, LT4Spartan06 said: I hear you man however, just because winning a championship game results in a trophy at the end, it does not objectively show that a team is better than the team that beat them earlier in the year and has similar resume. I don't think anyone is arguing the importance of one game over the other, seems like the dispute is against the claim that whoever wins the second game is definitively better. If teams play in the regular season, they have the rest of the time to improve and adjust for a rematch. Tons of things can happen during that time... QB changes, injuries happen, players recover, coaches get to know their personnel better, timing gets better... it's an infinite list of possibilities. That rematch (or any playoff scenario) should be viewed as the culmination of those activities. This is why you crown champions at the end of the season. That said, I do strongly hold on to the notion that the better team isn't always the one who wins the game (it's whoever plays better on that given day... upsets do happen), but that holds true at any point of the season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StingMan44 Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 22 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said: I think the podcast guy is a little to hung up on records and not on opponents, however he makes good points for Centennials case regarding the BG comparative game vs. DLS. Looks like the game tomorrow should be vs. a good opponent. Even though Cen10 whipped them last year, but the other teams QB is coming back as a senior. I will be paying close attention to the results. Thanks for sharing. 39-0 Centennial at HALF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted December 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, StingMan44 said: 39-0 Centennial at HALF Impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooderson Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said: Impressive 60-7 final. New 5A title game record for points scored, five interceptions by Centennial D likely another title game record. First running clock in an Arizona large school title game since 2002. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Arizona 5A is... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StingMan44 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 53 minutes ago, Goldmember said: Arizona 5A is... Cept for the team that shut out your precious STA last year, right?? 😂😂😂 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEOC89 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 9 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said: Impressive Can you please Move The Bishop up to Tier 3 now with Folsom where they Belong?.... They have 3 losses to Tier 1 and National Champ on the Field MD, Tier 2 DLS By 6 and Tier 2 or 3 (Should be Tier 2 but I will Defer to your Expertise) AZ Cen 10.... They Beat the Utah 4A Champ who on paper is the same as Folsom.... With their Excellent Schedule and their Close performances on the field against Great teams not named MD, how can you have a Team like Folsom on a Tier Above BG?... Especially when they played the SAME team (DLS) and BG Lost by 6 and Scored 21 points, where Folsom lost by 14 and Scored Zero? If the Tiers are supposed to be teams that are Competitive against each other, how are BG and Folsom not on the same Tier? I have seen both play and BG is easily 10 points better then Folsom... Folsom would never be able to handle the Size, speed and Physicality of BG.... But you keep penalizing BG for having a Competitive schedule against Nationally Relevant teams and they have a decisive win over a State Champion, so I have no clue why you are dissing BG like the Polls are?.... It's like the Folsom theory- "Don't play any good teams that have a chance to beat us and have a parade and in the end we can say We Would Have."- This seems to be what most Polls are based on, I thought the Tiers were different.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat_Scratch Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 On 11/30/2018 at 11:47 AM, Goldmember said: Same game, same rules, played between the same lines. There's no objective difference between them. The things that make them "different", like neutral field, long halftime, etc., are arbitrary and imposed by authority. Some things change. Like play calling. Who is covering. The refs. The weather. Sure the rules are the same and the teams can be in a re-match, but the game results are very rarely the same results as in the first meeting. Usually one team will improve. Maybe the coaches learned that a player excels at certain plays, or a rookie has developed into a special player. A lot can change in a few months otherwise they would never have re-matches. Now reevaluate your thinking son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 10 hours ago, THEOC89 said: Can you please Move The Bishop up to Tier 3 now with Folsom where they Belong?.... LOL why the hell would you care what "tier" the esteemed @Sammyswordsman has them? Worry about where USAToday has them,. Nothing else really matters,. Yeah I know, off the map hurts but some years are off years. I get where you are coming from though, you see Allen and Colquitt ranked above the Bishop and you understand the absurdity of that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodysurf Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 On 11/30/2018 at 11:40 AM, Goldmember said: Yes. It's objectively true that a high school football game in September is the same as one in November. Same length, rules, etc. Agreed the games are the same. However many, if not all, the computer rankings have a ‘time’ factor as part of the algorithm. Games later in the season weigh more heavily into the rankings and the weighting increases as the season progresses, with playoffs and championships being the most. This is pasted from the maxpreps explanation of their computer rankings.‘Playoff wins are weighed higher compared to a regular season game.’ this is from Jeff Sagarin The , RECENT is score-based and weights RECENT play more heavily than earlier games. Its effect will become more pronounced the longer a season goes if a given team happens to have an upward or downward trend. --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Cat_Scratch said: Like play calling. Who is covering. The refs. The weather. Play calling changes for every game, technically. Everything else is arbitrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 8 hours ago, THEOC89 said: Can you please Move The Bishop up to Tier 3 now with Folsom where they Belong?.... They have 3 losses to Tier 1 and National Champ on the Field MD, Tier 2 DLS By 6 and Tier 2 or 3 (Should be Tier 2 but I will Defer to your Expertise) AZ Cen 10.... They Beat the Utah 4A Champ who on paper is the same as Folsom.... With their Excellent Schedule and their Close performances on the field against Great teams not named MD, how can you have a Team like Folsom on a Tier Above BG?... Especially when they played the SAME team (DLS) and BG Lost by 6 and Scored 21 points, where Folsom lost by 14 and Scored Zero? If the Tiers are supposed to be teams that are Competitive against each other, how are BG and Folsom not on the same Tier? I have seen both play and BG is easily 10 points better then Folsom... Folsom would never be able to handle the Size, speed and Physicality of BG.... But you keep penalizing BG for having a Competitive schedule against Nationally Relevant teams and they have a decisive win over a State Champion, so I have no clue why you are dissing BG like the Polls are?.... It's like the Folsom theory- "Don't play any good teams that have a chance to beat us and have a parade and in the end we can say We Would Have."- This seems to be what most Polls are based on, I thought the Tiers were different.... Dear Sir, Currently, Sammy, The Comish, The Colonel, Mr. Stache, and Consuela are in a board meeting discussing the placement of the Tiers. They would like you to know that they have taken your request under consideration. When they deliberate they will give you a response to your request. Your patience is appreciated. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Bodysurf said: Agreed the games are the same. However many, if not all, the computer rankings have a ‘time’ factor as part of the algorithm. Which I think is one their greatest flaws. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted December 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 9 hours ago, THEOC89 said: Can you please Move The Bishop up to Tier 3 now with Folsom where they Belong?.... They have 3 losses to Tier 1 and National Champ on the Field MD, Tier 2 DLS By 6 and Tier 2 or 3 (Should be Tier 2 but I will Defer to your Expertise) AZ Cen 10.... They Beat the Utah 4A Champ who on paper is the same as Folsom.... With their Excellent Schedule and their Close performances on the field against Great teams not named MD, how can you have a Team like Folsom on a Tier Above BG?... Especially when they played the SAME team (DLS) and BG Lost by 6 and Scored 21 points, where Folsom lost by 14 and Scored Zero? If the Tiers are supposed to be teams that are Competitive against each other, how are BG and Folsom not on the same Tier? I have seen both play and BG is easily 10 points better then Folsom... Folsom would never be able to handle the Size, speed and Physicality of BG.... But you keep penalizing BG for having a Competitive schedule against Nationally Relevant teams and they have a decisive win over a State Champion, so I have no clue why you are dissing BG like the Polls are?.... It's like the Folsom theory- "Don't play any good teams that have a chance to beat us and have a parade and in the end we can say We Would Have."- This seems to be what most Polls are based on, I thought the Tiers were different.... You make several very good points. The Tiers philosophy is to recognize teams. That play tough schedules, and question the results of teams that do not. The Bishop did move up recently, their offense has been much improved, and we will be taking a close look at them for the next release today. Your well written appeal, with relevant facts, promotes an intelligent discourse for all members. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 33 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said: You make several very good points. The Tiers philosophy is to recognize teams. That play tough schedules, and question the results of teams that do not. The Bishop did move up recently, their offense has been much improved, and we will be taking a close look at them for the next release today. Your well written appeal, with relevant facts, promotes an intelligent discourse for all members. Thank you for responding to the gentleman's request. Now please get back to your meeting with the others, and finish this week's Tiers Your audience is waiting in bated breath. 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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