OT-Savants and Geniuses

[AztecPadre]

7 hours ago, ECHS05 said:

SOMETHING had to create everything...  the matter & space surrounding us did not just always exist. It began in some way... there HAS to be a beginning. It has nothing to do with us having a beginning and end, its the fact everything comes from something.

Yes, yes, matter and energy constant. Where did the matter come from to start with?

This is exactly my point.  I get what NOR is saying in that there is a beginning and an end in life aspect but something does not have to be living in order for it to have a beginning.  Just crazy to think of what started it and what started that and so on and so on.  Truly the miracle of life. 

[ECHS05]

33 minutes ago, AztecPadre said:

This is exactly my point.  I get what NOR is saying in that there is a beginning and an end in life aspect but something does not have to be living in order for it to have a beginning.  Just crazy to think of what started it and what started that and so on and so on.  Truly the miracle of life. 

Apparently NOR just thinks everything just was & has been & will be, infinitely forever.

That cannot be. I wont comment on what I think of the birth of time, but matter HAD to start at some point. Because matter is evolving (I use evolving for lack of a better term),  or perhaps changing in an evolutionary, AGING(getting older with time), manner. Its expanding. And we know the universe is expanding outward. Telling us it had to start somewhere. And with its expansion, matter gets less and less dense (technically, when referring to all matter). But when the universe was young, and there wasnt the space there is now... that matter was compact, going through all sorts of transformations, bonding & changing. It began from a certain point in space that at one point, was all that existed. If our universe, has a beginning, how can matter not? Was it always a big ball of solid/gas matter just sitting there inside of nothing until space began expanding?

How did that space, & matter. Happen? Or perhaps this isnt the right way to look at it. Perhaps everything is endless, timeless, chaos. 

[noonereal]

42 minutes ago, ECHS05 said:

Apparently NOR just thinks everything just was & has been & will be, infinitely forever.

That cannot be. I wont comment on what I think of the birth of time, but matter HAD to start at some point. Because matter is evolving (I use evolving for lack of a better term),  or perhaps changing in an evolutionary, AGING(getting older with time), manner. Its expanding. And we know the universe is expanding outward. Telling us it had to start somewhere. And with its expansion, matter gets less and less dense (technically, when referring to all matter). But when the universe was young, and there wasnt the space there is now... that matter was compact, going through all sorts of transformations, bonding & changing. It began from a certain point in space that at one point, was all that existed. If our universe, has a beginning, how can matter not? Was it always a big ball of solid/gas matter just sitting there inside of nothing until space began expanding?

How did that space, & matter. Happen? Or perhaps this isnt the right way to look at it. Perhaps everything is endless, timeless, chaos. 

You are so dumb. 

Honest. Sorry. It's just your stubborn, petulant, immature attitude that on occasion like this cause me to speak bluntly. 

Ever hear of a black hole? 

Does a universe expand forever? 

Does anything ever cease to exist? 

How is something created? 

[Belly Bob]

22 hours ago, noonereal said:

I do not think there is a difference [between the mind and the brain]

I believe the attributes we attribute to our minds are simply physical/chemical/electric actions of the brain. 

I beg to differ. My brain has a determinate size and shape. My mind has neither a size nor a shape. If A and B have different properties, then A and B are not identical. So my mind is not identical to my brain.

21 hours ago, CCBlackhatter said:

You cannot have a "mind" without the brain. In other words, the chicken came before the egg.

Why not? 

[noonereal]

1 hour ago, AztecPadre said:

This is exactly my point.  I get what NOR is saying in that there is a beginning and an end in life aspect but something does not have to be living in order for it to have a beginning.  Just crazy to think of what started it and what started that and so on and so on.  Truly the miracle of life. 

Why does something have to have  a beginning? 

I get why you say it, this was pounded into us just like the earth was flat or we were the center of everything or a thousand different things that were taken for granted. 

Can you imagine what Opie would have said had I claimed the world was not flat!? (back int he day) 

that is all he's doing now in reference to my comments. 

-------------------------------------------

Everything I look at in nature/the universe is eerily similar. Even simple. 

I can not find one instance of and absolute ending or absolute beginning. 

I do see constant change, giving the illusion of something beginning, being born or dying, something ending. In fact it's simply changing. 

Everything we know supports the idea that we simply see change.  So why then are we insistent that somehow, at some point in the past, this was not the case? What does anyone base this on? 

It's baseless. (yet seems logical) 

it is simply not a logical conclusion.  

 

 

 

[noonereal]

7 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

My mind has neither a size nor a shape.

Simply explained, your mind is whatever synapses are firing at any given time. 

[Belly Bob]

3 minutes ago, noonereal said:

Simply explained, your mind is whatever synapses are firing at any given time. 

You're assuming what you're supposed to be proving, namely, the my mind and brain are identical. 

[noonereal]

Just now, Belly Bob said:

You're assuming what you're supposed to be proving. 

LOL, what is it I am supposed to prove? 

That your mind is not mystical?

Let me ask you straight up, you think your mind is some metaphysical entity? 

Is that your belief? 

 

[Belly Bob]

7 minutes ago, noonereal said:

LOL, what is it I am supposed to prove? 

That your mind is not mystical?

Let me ask you straight up, you think your mind is some metaphysical entity? 

Is that your belief? 

 

I think that you're supposed to prove that the mind is the brain or some part of the brain or some process that is or that supervenes on some activity in the brain. Something like that.

I'm not sure what you mean by "mystical" or "metaphysical" here. 

My belief is that the mind is a non-physical entity distinct from the brain. 

[noonereal]

21 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I think that you're supposed to prove that the mind is the brain or some part of the brain or some process that is or that supervenes on some activity in the brain. Something like that.

I'm not sure what you mean by "mystical" or "metaphysical" here. 

My belief is that the mind is a non-physical entity distinct from the brain. 

Thanks 

I was wondering if you thought that.

[Belly Bob]

23 hours ago, noonereal said:

there is no such thing as creation [...]

 

22 hours ago, 954gator said:

Exactly matter is neither created nor destroyed, it simply changes in composition. [...]

 

9 hours ago, noonereal said:

why did something have to create matter and space? 

1. If something is but needn't be, then there is a reason why it is. [Contingent truths require explanation.]

2. The universe exists but needn't. [The existence of the universe is a contingent truth; it's true that the universe exists, but it might not have, even it it's true that is has always existed and always will exist. A necessary truth, a non-contingent truth, is not the same thing as a truth that is true at every time; rather, it is something that is true and cannot possibly be false.]

3. Therefore, there is a reason why it is. 

[HawgGoneIt]

2 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

 

 

1. If something is but needn't be, then there is a reason why it is. [Contingent truths require explanation.]

2. The universe exists but needn't. [The existence of the universe is a contingent truth; it's true that the universe exists, but it might not have, even it it's true that is has always existed and always will exist. A necessary truth, a non-contingent truth, is not the same thing as a truth that is true at every time; rather, it is something that is true and cannot possibly be false.]

3. Therefore, there is a reason why it is. 

 

The ultimate reason why, likely is, so that we will wonder why. 

[SJR 04]

8 hours ago, noonereal said:

Bingo! He is changing realities. 

This is very very concerning and so far, I have heard little about it. 

The problem is, comparing him to Hitler is prohibited if you are to be taken seriously but it's Adolph's template he is using.

----------------------

another thing

How can no one notice he is buddies with everyone that has a gun. All the wing nuts, police and military. Every General he can find he puts in his circle. 

The shooting and killing of the Indian guys two days ago may well be the norm. Trump certainly played a factor. 

I have been very open to Trump's policies simple because he won fair and square. But right now, he is redefining reality to many. As it's what they want to believe, it's not hard to do. 

 

 

Shooting and killing of the Indians??? What did I miss

[Cat_Scratch]

23 hours ago, CCBlackhatter said:

When I think of using 100% or even 50%, I'm referring to simultaneously all at once.

It is probably an adaptation of ours to limit simultaneous use to protect us from mental fatigue. I imagine that 100% use would fry our brains pretty quickly.

I want to get back to this thought, but I'm headed to dinner with company and family. 

Good subject; 10 billions neurons would be a lot of energy burning at once.

[Cat_Scratch]

Dark Energy, Dark Matter, and Higg's Boson's. Should already be part of what you know about our universe. 

There is and will always be space. Most of it, as we already know, is empty. (No republicans jokes here please.)

Because we can't fully understand it doesn't mean it was created by a Super Being. For some, well, they may as well believe in magic. Only a Creator or Magician can formulate matter from energy into a physical object. And God said "Let there be Light, and there was light". With simple words, the bible tells us that God's though's created all that is the Universe, the Sun, the Earth, and all that is upon the Earth, not to mention all the planets in our solar system, the billions upon billions of other solar systems and what is contained in them. For me, that is a lot of creation from nothing. But then again, who says we are not created by a programmer in a SIMS experiment. There are some pretty good AI programs out there. Maybe God is a bunch of programmers with a Quantum Computer. Who can really prove this wrong?

Dark Energy, it is believe by the leading Cosmologist to be the energy that pulls the Dark Matter inward, forming huge wells of gravity. The Matter then forms into galaxies and stars. It is more complicated than that, but you get the point, I hope.

Boson's are what glue the atoms together. We are a trillion, seven times, of atoms. Atoms arranged by our DNA coding. In that coding are 10 billion neurons. Memory is energy flowing through the neurons in certain orders. The same memory can be remembered using different neurons but memory is quicker when the same neurons are used in repeated sequences. 

You can split the brain in to 2 halves and still be a reasonably functioning person. 5 billion Neurons on each side, only conciseness seams the 2 halves together. Split brain patient's can have two personalities.  See split brain studies for more information. Quite interesting.

Study of the human brain is still in it's infancy. What man has learned in the last 60 years about the human brain is nothing compared to what will be learned in the next 30 or more.

Read... http://www.legiontheory.com/split-brain.html

[954gator]

6 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

 

 

1. If something is but needn't be, then there is a reason why it is. [Contingent truths require explanation.]

2. The universe exists but needn't. [The existence of the universe is a contingent truth; it's true that the universe exists, but it might not have, even it it's true that is has always existed and always will exist. A necessary truth, a non-contingent truth, is not the same thing as a truth that is true at every time; rather, it is something that is true and cannot possibly be false.]

3. Therefore, there is a reason why it is. 

 

[HawgGoneIt]

51 minutes ago, Cat_Scratch said:

Dark Energy, Dark Matter, and Higg's Boson's. Should already be part of what you know about our universe. 

There is and will always be space. Most of it, as we already know, is empty. (No republicans jokes here please.)

Because we can't fully understand it doesn't mean it was created by a Super Being. For some, well, they may as well believe in magic. Only a Creator or Magician can formulate matter from energy into a physical object. And God said "Let there be Light, and there was light". With simple words, the bible tells us that God's though's created all that is the Universe, the Sun, the Earth, and all that is upon the Earth, not to mention all the planets in our solar system, the billions upon billions of other solar systems and what is contained in them. For me, that is a lot of creation from nothing. But then again, who says we are not created by a programmer in a SIMS experiment. There are some pretty good AI programs out there. Maybe God is a bunch of programmers with a Quantum Computer. Who can really prove this wrong?

Dark Energy, it is believe by the leading Cosmologist to be the energy that pulls the Dark Matter inward, forming huge wells of gravity. The Matter then forms into galaxies and stars. It is more complicated than that, but you get the point, I hope.

Boson's are what glue the atoms together. We are a trillion, seven times, of atoms. Atoms arranged by our DNA coding. In that coding are 10 billion neurons. Memory is energy flowing through the neurons in certain orders. The same memory can be remembered using different neurons but memory is quicker when the same neurons are used in repeated sequences. 

You can split the brain in to 2 halves and still be a reasonably functioning person. 5 billion Neurons on each side, only conciseness seams the 2 halves together. Split brain patient's can have two personalities.  See split brain studies for more information. Quite interesting.

Study of the human brain is still in it's infancy. What man has learned in the last 60 years about the human brain is nothing compared to what will be learned in the next 30 or more.

Read... http://www.legiontheory.com/split-brain.html

So my guy Delaney may have really been onto something (besides weed and hallucinogenics) back in the 70's then?

 

 

 

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, Cat_Scratch said:

[...]

Because we can't fully understand it doesn't mean it was created by a Super Being. For some, well, they may as well believe in magic. Only a Creator or Magician can formulate matter from energy into a physical object. And God said "Let there be Light, and there was light". With simple words, the bible tells us that God's though's created all that is the Universe, the Sun, the Earth, and all that is upon the Earth, not to mention all the planets in our solar system, the billions upon billions of other solar systems and what is contained in them. For me, that is a lot of creation from nothing.

[...]

I think that this is confused. There is nothing magical about energy bringing matter into existence. In fact, it's standard physics these days. Quarks, leptons, etc. take up no space and have no volume and no mass etc.; yet when you get them together in the right way, you get a physical object.

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, Cat_Scratch said:

[...]

You can split the brain in to 2 halves and still be a reasonably functioning person. 5 billion Neurons on each side, only conciseness seams the 2 halves together. Split brain patient's can have two personalities.  See split brain studies for more information. Quite interesting.

Study of the human brain is still in it's infancy. What man has learned in the last 60 years about the human brain is nothing compared to what will be learned in the next 30 or more.

If this is true, then there is even more reason to think that the mind is distinct form the brain.

If you are your mind, and your mind is your brain, then if your brain can be split into two halves, A and B, then you would be identical to both A and B; that's absurd. So either you are not your mind or your mind is not your brain; but you are your mind; so your mind is not your brain. 

[Belly Bob]

Strange night. 

[HawgGoneIt]

Your mind is the "you" that was developed by your early learning processes and your genetic make-up. 

[noonereal]

14 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

 

 

1. If something is but needn't be, then there is a reason why it is. 

Why do you think ANYTHING need not be? Maybe you simply do not know why things need be? 

Read this just this morning: "What science tells us today is that there doesn't seem to be a particular reason for our existence." 

Quote

2. The universe exists but needn't. 

That's one hell of an assumption and I'd submit, completely in error. 

 

Quote

3. Therefore, there is a reason why it is. 

The reason is what we are after. 

 

hope this helps!

[noonereal]

6 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

If this is true, then there is even more reason to think that the mind is distinct form the brain.

 

Oh come on, this is silly. You start with a false conclusion of the post then claim it supports you!

 

Quote

If you are your mind, and your mind is your brain, then if your brain can be split into two halves, A and B, then you would be identical to both A and B; that's absurd. So either you are not your mind or your mind is not your brain; but you are your mind; so your mind is not your brain. 

where does this idea of a mirror brain come from? 

Absurd indeed. 

 

[Cat_Scratch]

8 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

If this is true, then there is even more reason to think that the mind is distinct form the brain.

If you are your mind, and your mind is your brain, then if your brain can be split into two halves, A and B, then you would be identical to both A and B; that's absurd. So either you are not your mind or your mind is not your brain; but you are your mind; so your mind is not your brain. 

"Then if your brain can be split into two halves, A and B, then you would be identical to both A and B; that's absurd."

If the brain is split in to 2 halves, A and B, you can have 2 functioning thought processes going on at the same time and completely different from the other. One from one side of the brain and another from the opposite side. In some cases the patient is confused with his actions. As the example pointed out, the right hand buttons the shirt while the left unbutton's it right behind the hand buttoning it. I admit that the through process has gone wrong, but it still shows that there are 2 thought processes at the same time from what is now, basically, 2 brains. "So either you are not your mind or your mind is not your brain; but you are your mind; so your mind is not your brain." So if your mind is not your Brain you should have one mind with 2 brains, or 2 brains with one mind?

[Cat_Scratch]

9 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

I think that this is confused. There is nothing magical about energy bringing matter into existence. In fact, it's standard physics these days. Quarks, leptons, etc. take up no space and have no volume and no mass etc.; yet when you get them together in the right way, you get a physical object.

As we know at the moment, they take up no space until they are brought together. The human body has a lot of empty space, there is a distance of space between the Electron's and the shell that holds the Neutron and Proton.