DLS vs Colerain. Who wins?

[PrepGridiron]

13 hours ago, Adam Kurkjian said:

Just to add on to this, one of the things that works in DLS' favor when this happens is they don't necessarily abandon the dive if it's not clicking right away.

They do this to @Blueliner chagrin

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

Wtf is hyper improvement again?

And where can I buy it at? 

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

Because I damn sure need some....

[ohio]

2 minutes ago, Pops said:

Hmmm

i wasn’t really looking to weigh in much on the OP but this is interesting 

first of all, several of the teams you reference were clearly all-star teams of a type that OH rarely plays (last time, your state champ lost 34-0 very generously)  The East Utah allstars...Utah?, the lakeland allstars, the Trinity first round loser allstars, the 3 loss STA  allstars......  Should I go on?   Now as to SJB vs X.  You do know that X had several key starters out that game?  Even when they got a few starters back they still lost to St. Ignatius 31-14 later in the season.  They finished the regular season at 5-5.  Once they got completely healthy they started winning in the playoffs and revenged St.Ignatius 27-20.  Talk about real hyper improvement.  So, please don't insult my intelligence and tell me that a rematch between SJB and X   would not have been a lot  closer had the two teams met again after the season ended.  You can fool others with this unwarranted insult, but not me;  as I actually watch these games.

second of all, you’re going back 30 years so yeah, DLS has lost s few games — all of those games were in the road except East, who played either DLS’s 3rd or 4th worst team in last 30.  30 years....hmmm,   Don Bosco 2008/2009, STA 2011, Lakeland 2009, East 2016

third, the other 3rd or 4th worst team did travel to OH and be6at Elder in the Herbie 56-28 (was 49-12 in 3rd) You mean the Elder team that had 3 other big losses and did not make the playoffs in 2006?

fourth, there’s a bit more to DLS’s hyper-improvement than running the option — Read the book (don’t watch the movie) and you’ll understand a bit better.  Not saying DLS > Colerain in this regard but donobjexr to just leveling all option teams  No it's not. It's all about getting the timing right when playing the option as the high school team that I played on, ran the option.  So, I do know quite a bit about running an option and why it does not work at times.  Don't let the opinion of some Author of a book muddy your thinking.

Look, Pops you seem like a decent guy.  And I really don't mean any disrespect to you or DLS.  Actually I like DLS and its athletic and academic programs.  It's just that sometimes the Cali people seem to exhibit a good deal of hubris and unwarranted smearing against other state's teams, especially the Midwestern teams. Even when there is no evidence to do so.

Merry Christmas.  I hope we can agree to disagree.

 

[ohio]

56 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

Not Cali, just DLS. 

I’ve always loved Colerain’s nasty defense. I just think that DLS, specifically, is the best team for hyper-improving year in and year out. 

All option oriented teams improve over the course of a season.  The high school team that I played on ran a triple option and we always had a hard time holding on to the ball, due to lack of coordination, in scrimmages and the beginning of the season.  It's hard to get the QB, the backs, the WRs  and the OLine to get in sync.  But once you get everything running smoothly, without having to think about it and running it instinctively, it is difficult for the other teams defense to stop.  That's the main reason why option teams improve so much by seasons end.

As far as Colerain and DLS go.  Both teams are very similar.  And from what I've seen from both teams on video, the games could go either way. 

The problem with an option is that when you go up against a good defense, it's very easy to fumble, due to its coordination and complexity involved, more than if you run other types of offenses.  That's one of the biggest reasons the NFL teams don't run it.

Just my take on this.

[ohio]

3 hours ago, Blueliner said:

You guys know I’m a DLS homer, but I don’t subscribe to the hyper-improvement theory. The DLS OL  does get better as the season progresses. But As Coach A said, all talented and well-coaches teams get better by years’ end. That’s said, Hale was not the same player at the end of the year as he was against Folsom. Seriously, if DLS and Folsom played again, it’d be like 35-14 DLS. Dorian’s job was just to not lose the game in week zero. Mission accomplished. The coaches opened the playbook significantly for him by the end of the year. That’s says a lot....this year. Gotta start over again on 6 months!

I agree with you. DLS is much better now than it was in its first game.

Once you get the coordination down on an option oriented offense, and run it instinctively without having to think about it;  it is very difficult to stop at the high school level.  But from what I remember, it took us about 7 or 8 games to get it running smoothly.

The only reason that I started this thread is that some posters on here seemed to be dissing Ohio teams, so I figured, I'd give them some of their own medicine.

The DLS guys on here seem like a good bunch and I actually respect DLS and their accomplishments, but some people on here should stop with the put downs.

 

[Exocet 98]

All teams going forward facing the DLS veer will only need to watch tape on what SJB and MD did with their 300l lb samoan transfers. For 3  'nattys.

[ohio]

6 minutes ago, Exocet 98 said:

All teams going forward facing the DLS veer will only need to watch tape on what SJB and MD did with their 300l lb samoan tranfers. For 3  'nattys.

Yes.

SJB and MD have good defenses that will disrupt the Veer, and force DLS to pass more than they want to.  If DLS wants to beat the likes of SJB or MD, they will have to start getting more talented transfers like MD or SJB do,  and try running an other type of offense like the spread. The Veer won't work against these talented defenses.

[Blueliner]

2 hours ago, PrepGridiron said:

They do this to @Blueliner chagrin

Tooooo funny! Prep, we were lucky to have that private, sound-proofed room at the pizza joint to watch the game. Or maybe I should say the rest of the patrons were the lucky ones. You and your son were stuck in there with me! “Not the dive again, Coach, Ugh!!!!”. 🤣

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

DLS

BGW

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

Colerain

BGW

[zulu1128]

3 hours ago, Pops said:

Hmmm

i wasn’t really looking to weigh in much on the OP but this is interesting 

first of all, several of the teams you reference were clearly all-star teams of a type that OH rarely plays (last time, your state champ lost 34-0 very generously)

second of all, you’re going back 30 years so yeah, DLS has lost s few games — all of those games were in the road except East, who played either DLS’s 3rd or 4th worst team in last 30.

third, the other 3rd or 4th worst team did travel to OH and beat Elder in the Herbie 56-28 (was 49-12 in 3rd)

fourth, there’s a bit more to DLS’s hyper-improvement than running the option — Read the book (don’t watch the movie) and you’ll understand a bit better.  Not saying DLS > Colerain in this regard but donobjexr to just leveling all option teams 

It was 56-38, and it was never 49-12 at any point. 

Elder was also a 6-4 non-playoff team...one which a couple of OH teams beat as badly as DLS did. 

It was a convincing win, but you’re getting out over your skis a little bit wit this post. 

[Blueliner]

55 minutes ago, ohio said:

Yes.

SJB and MD have good defenses that will disrupt the Veer, and force DLS to pass more than they want to.  If DLS wants to beat the likes of SJB or MD, they will have to start getting more talented transfers like MD or SJB do,  and try running an other type of offense like the spread. The Veer won't work against these talented defenses.

I’m pretty sure that DLS will not get into an arms race with SoCal. It just goes everything that they’re about. That said, to compete, they’re going to have to keep getting solid talent, and as you said, switch up the offense a little. Tweak it, not abandon the veer. The veer needs to be the base, and add to it based on the talent level. I’m certain that you’ll see them spread it out a lot more in the next two years with the personnel that that have returning. But there will still be a heavy dose of veer, no doubt. Going forward, DLS realizes that they will have to find way to successfully attack a superior DL year after year. No secret anymore. They’ll find a way.

[old_e]

3 hours ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

Wtf is hyper improvement again?

And where can I buy it at? 

At the general Lee trading post. 

[old_e]

Maybe in Moultrie. 

[ohio]

20 minutes ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

Colerain

BGW

 

21 minutes ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

DLS

BGW

You win.  😂

[Pops]

4 hours ago, zulu1128 said:

It was 56-38, and it was never 49-12 at any point. 

Elder was also a 6-4 non-playoff team...one which a couple of OH teams beat as badly as DLS did. 

It was a convincing win, but you’re getting out over your skis a little bit wit this post. 

I should have stayed on sideline — wasn’t a debate I sought and maybe got a bit touchy 

i know DLS got out to a bigger lead than final margin indicated — I did try to piece together from box score 

that DLS team didn’t have a kid on campus (4 classes) that signed a BCS LOI out of high school

they were still ranked #1 by USAT until final poll — the people that accuse DLS of getting treated too generously by pollsters were most right ‘04-‘06 (1st 3 years post streak)

[World Citizen]

23 hours ago, ohio said:

When I was in high school we ran a triple option.  It does take a lot of practice and timing since many things can go wrong.  It's all about execution and timing.  We were much better at the end of the year than at the beginning.   I think most teams who run some form of option do get better as the season moves along.

So, once a team like DLS or Colerain get in sync and get the timing right, they are difficult to stop in the playoffs at the high school level, even at the college level.   The only problem that they have is that they run into a team with a good defensive line that stops the dive and can penetrate the the backfield.  Once a defense does both of these you are forced to pitch or throw the football down field.  That's why so many option oriented teams commit so many forced fumbles when they face a tough defense.   This probably why you don't see the option run in the NFL.

Agree with everything you said.  I ran the option in high school as well.  I would have gone pro and been in the HOF if it wasn't for my lack of talent.  Sometimes life is a game of miles instead of inches.  

If a team has that D line, all the improvement in the world won't matter.  But it takes a great D line like STA, DBP, ET, MD/SJB had to do it.  

[Coletrain06]

Always wanted to see these 2 play each other. Similar philosophy and style of play. 

I've said before that during all the the big Herbstreit events and all the other OOS events, I would always try to talk with all the fan bases..... and the DLS fans were by far my favorite. Very fun, respectful, and classy folks. Really like the program and coaches too. 

This year I would say it probably would've been a toss up. 

[Coletrain06]

On 12/24/2018 at 12:33 AM, ATLien12x said:

Would you pick Colerain in a do over against St Eds?

Possibly. 

I think if they played 10 times, the winner would simply be the team that performed better that game. So I'd say probably a 5-5 split. Its highly unlikely Eds would play that well consistently. 

Eds performed near perfect in their game against Colerain. They had 0 turnovers, forced 2 turnovers, never gave up any big plays, made a handful of big 3rd down conversions, executed a perfect onside kick, and their QB went 13/13 passing. 

Colerain dominated for 14 weeks and one half. Eds made huge plays to dominate the 2nd half and only gave Colerain 4 possessions in the 2nd half. Still Colerain fans were a little puzzled and upset on Colerains first 2 possessions of the 2nd half when Colerain continuously ran only FB Dives up the middle and Eds stuffed them. Colerain had so many speedy options on the edge. That's when Colerain's option really works in the 2nd half.  

 

 

[hardhit1]

4 minutes ago, Coletrain06 said:

Possibly. 

I think if they played 10 times, the winner would simply be the team that performed better that game. So I'd say probably a 5-5 split. Its highly unlikely Eds would play that well consistently. 

Eds performed near perfect in their game against Colerain. They had 0 turnovers, forced 2 turnovers, never gave up any big plays, made a handful of big 3rd down conversions, executed a perfect onside kick, and their QB went 13/13 passing. 

Colerain dominated for 14 weeks and one half. Eds made huge plays to dominate the 2nd half and only gave Colerain 4 possessions in the 2nd half. Still Colerain fans were a little puzzled and upset on Colerains first 2 possessions of the 2nd half when Colerain continuously ran only FB Dives up the middle and Eds stuffed them. Colerain had so many speedy options on the edge. That's when Colerain's option really works in the 2nd half.  

 

 

Train you are good dude and I can agree

when it comes down to the outcome I believe ED out coached and out prepared them. 

Only a hand full of teams could beat Colerain this year just happened to be the wrong day for Colerain 

[Coletrain06]

1 minute ago, hardhit1 said:

Train you are good dude and I can agree

when it comes down to the outcome I believe ED out coached and out prepared them. 

Only a hand full of teams could beat Colerain this year just happened to be the wrong day for Colerain 

Agreed. Came away very impressed with Lombardo and Eds coaching staff.

[Coletrain06]

4 minutes ago, hardhit1 said:

Train you are good dude and I can agree

when it comes down to the outcome I believe ED out coached and out prepared them. 

Only a hand full of teams could beat Colerain this year just happened to be the wrong day for Colerain 

Also I believe Eds had the best game plan to beat Colerain.......saw many of the GCL guys ponder that the way to stop Colerain was to take away Ivan Pace up the middle early and force Colerain outside. I thought that was stupid. 

I thought all season that the way to slow down the Colerain offense was to take away the edges and make Pace beat you up the middle early to tire him out. I thought Eds executed this perfectly and thought that maybe even the opening kickoff to Pace was intentional to try to tire him out....otherwise that kickoff was a head scratcher.

[hardhit1]

10 minutes ago, Coletrain06 said:

Also I believe Eds had the best game plan to beat Colerain.......saw many of the GCL guys ponder that the way to stop Colerain was to take away Ivan Pace up the middle early and force Colerain outside. I thought that was stupid. 

I thought all season that the way to slow down the Colerain offense was to take away the edges and make Pace beat you up the middle early to tire him out. I thought Eds executed this perfectly and thought that maybe even the opening kickoff to Pace was intentional to try to tire him out....otherwise that kickoff was a head scratcher.

Agree

look at the first 2 post of that game, you and me

i said Ed strength is to go at their strength and take it head on and most of their weaknesses this year is letting the opponents O go wide. 

 

[CaliNorth]

On 12/24/2018 at 4:15 PM, ohio said:

Yes.

SJB and MD have good defenses that will disrupt the Veer, and force DLS to pass more than they want to.  If DLS wants to beat the likes of SJB or MD, they will have to start getting more talented transfers like MD or SJB do,  and try running an other type of offense like the spread. The Veer won't work against these talented defenses.

It will work, but most definitely needs to be balanced by a potent passing game. Last 2 seasons Dela had no qb and this season was a sophmore. The amount of turnovers, as you pointed out earlier, cannnot happen against these super teams. So if you have a  really good qb, a top running back, and a " Good " o-line, with a solid defense,  your in the game. I know that sounds like a lot, but Dela has had those teams in past. It definitely  is a timing thing.  If the veer is run efficiently, it will take effect on other teams defense, and the passing will totally open it up.  But like you said, you need the players, and they don't all come around  at once very often.