Week 6 Tiers

[Sammyswordsman]

Tier 1 - Mater Dei, St. John Bosco*, SFA, IMG, Duncanville*, STA,*,

Tier 2 – Katy*, DeMatha, DLS, North Shore*, Lowndes, SJP, Marietta, Bishop Gorman*, Lakeland, Longview, Southlake Carroll, St. Louis (Hi)

Tier 3 - Colquitt, Grayson, Allen, Gonzaga, SJR*, Servite*, Chandler, St. Eds*, Mentor*, Northwestern, SJC, West Monroe, Grayson, McEachern, North Gwinett, Punahu

Tier 4 -   Cathedral Catholic,  Lone Peak (UT), Catholic -BR, Valdosta,   SPP. Elder, St. X, Colerain, OLGC, Miami Central, Cen10, Mission Viejo, Guyer, Corner Canyon (Ut), Helix, Westlake

Tier 5 -  Buford, JSerra, Hoover, Centennial AZ, Lincoln Way East. East St. Louis, Dutch Fork, Mallard Creek, Columbia, John Curtis, Bergen Catholic, Narbonne, Saguaro, Lake Travis

Tier 6 - DBP, Hoban, Iggy, Trinity (Ky), Aledo, Folsom*, Male, Byrnes

‘* - Indicates teams on probation for their Tier.

*Requests to add your team will be honored.  But must be Tier 6 or above to be placed on a Tier.

Below is an explanation of the Methodolgy used to place the teams on various Tiers.  The Tier concept recognizes that W/L records are a function of quality of opponent, and as such, RELEVANCY of opponent MUST be factored in.  The Tiers recognizes that in some cases, a 10-0 team (ranked in Top 100 by some outlets) could get blown off the field by a 5-5 (unranked) team that played a tougher schedule.  This is why the Tiers was created.

*Not attempting to rank every team, only the ones we discuss on this site.

*Teams are ranked appropriately for that week in the season.  Teams can improve and regress comparatively.

* The Tiers are fluid and subject to extreme fluctuations early in the year, leveling out as the year progresses.

*Tier placements consider a teams entire body of work, however are weighted heaviest on recent games and game weights decrease in significance in reverse order.  In other words, early road OOS losses to relevant teams can be overcome as the season progresses.

*Teams placed on the same Tier can compete with other same Tier teams and possibly win 2+ of 10. 

*Basically there is a -10 point drop between tiers.  Could vary from a TD to 3 scores depending on the styles of teams playing.  This does not necessarily mean that there is a 30 point difference between Tier 1 and Tier 3, only that the chances of a Tier 3 team beating a Tier 1 team are exponentially less than the chances of a Tier 2 Team beating a Tier 1 team.

*The Tiers will ultimately be made up of (16) teams per Tier that would form competitive playoff brackets.

*Texas teams generally have not played enough OOS games to gauge properly #crapshoot.  There must be a daisy chain OOS connection for a reference point.  Teams with no OOS daisy chain connection may not be placed on a Tier.  (Texas exempt)

*Tiers are based on exhaustive research, Multiple games watched, and good gut feelings.

*This is a crowd sourced rating. All input will be considered and adjustments will be made as appropriate

[Sammyswordsman]

Alot of consternation about SJB this week.  Fortunately for the Braves they have quite a resume with convincing wins over Mililani, DeMatha, OLGC.  An added plus for the Braves is that those beaten teams have gone on to do very well against other opponents.

So maybe this was more of a case of Servite being better than expected at this point in the season.  Right now the benefit of the doubt goes to Servite being better, rather than SJB suddenly being worse.

We have added the (Probation *) as a warning to teams that may be in over their heads in their respective Tiers, and the slighest mis step could cause them to drop.

We toyed with moving St. Louis (Hi) to Tier 1 by virtue of their win over BG which in turn beat Servite, but it was decided that S. Louis had a big home field advantage against BG, and BG had a home field advantage plus an early Week 2 advantage of playing a young Servite team.

SJR looked shaky this week after the pummeling at the hands of SFA, eeking out a 1 score win vs. a multi loss non relevant team.  Hence SJR is on probation and may be dropped if they continue to under perform, or if Servite beats their marquee win JSerra worse than SJR did.

We have been looking for a reason to bump Allen up to Tier 2 but cannot find one at this point in the season.

St. Eds and Mentor are huge question marks at this point, but they are getting the benefit of the doubt for the time being.  Mentor beating a very questionable Iggy team by 1 score leaves the door open for all kinds of speculation, and none of it is good for Mentor or St. Eds.

Also considered moving Lowndes to Tier 1 as they have been dominating, however Lowndes does not have the signature OOS win.  Colquitt is another team that maybe should be up one Tier, but the 1 point loss to Valdosta is temporarilly holding them back

Narbonne, East St. Louis, Lincoln way East are dropping into the Tier 5 group with superior athletes, but questionable coaching, and lack of a Marquee win to cite.

In Tier 6 we have the dregs.  Not a good place for a proud program to find itself.

 

[dntn31]

[GREYHOUNDALUM]

1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Tier 1 - Mater Dei, St. John Bosco*, SFA, IMG, Duncanville*, STA,*,

Tier 2 – Katy*, DeMatha, DLS, North Shore*, Lowndes, SJP, Marietta, Bishop Gorman*, Lakeland, Longview, Southlake Carroll, St. Louis (Hi)

Tier 3 - Colquitt, Grayson, Allen, Gonzaga, SJR*, Servite*, Chandler, St. Eds*, Mentor*, Northwestern, SJC, West Monroe, Grayson, McEachern, North Gwinett, Punahu

Tier 4 -   Cathedral Catholic,  Lone Peak (UT), Catholic -BR, Valdosta,   SPP. Elder, St. X, Colerain, OLGC, Miami Central, Cen10, Mission Viejo, Guyer, Corner Canyon (Ut)

Tier 5 -  Buford, JSerra, Hoover, Centennial AZ, Lincoln Way East. East St. Louis, Dutch Fork, Mallard Creek, Columbia, John Curtis, Bergen Catholic, Narbonne, Saguaro

Tier 6 - DBP, Hoban, Iggy, Trinity (Ky), Aledo, Folsom*, Male, Byrnes

‘* - Indicates teams on probation for their Tier.

*Requests to add your team will be honored.  But must be Tier 6 or above to be placed on a Tier.

Below is an explanation of the Methodolgy used to place the teams on various Tiers.  The Tier concept recognizes that W/L records are a function of quality of opponent, and as such, RELEVANCY of opponent MUST be factored in.  The Tiers recognizes that in some cases, a 10-0 team (ranked in Top 100 by some outlets) could get blown off the field by a 5-5 (unranked) team that played a tougher schedule.  This is why the Tiers was created.

*Not attempting to rank every team, only the ones we discuss on this site.

*Teams are ranked appropriately for that week in the season.  Teams can improve and regress comparatively.

* The Tiers are fluid and subject to extreme fluctuations early in the year, leveling out as the year progresses.

*Tier placements consider a teams entire body of work, however are weighted heaviest on recent games and game weights decrease in significance in reverse order.  In other words, early road OOS losses to relevant teams can be overcome as the season progresses.

*Teams placed on the same Tier can compete with other same Tier teams and possibly win 2+ of 10. 

*Basically there is a -10 point drop between tiers.  Could vary from a TD to 3 scores depending on the styles of teams playing.  This does not necessarily mean that there is a 30 point difference between Tier 1 and Tier 3, only that the chances of a Tier 3 team beating a Tier 1 team are exponentially less than the chances of a Tier 2 Team beating a Tier 1 team.

*The Tiers will ultimately be made up of (16) teams per Tier that would form competitive playoff brackets.

*Texas teams generally have not played enough OOS games to gauge properly #crapshoot.  There must be a daisy chain OOS connection for a reference point.  Teams with no OOS daisy chain connection may not be placed on a Tier.  (Texas exempt)

*Tiers are based on exhaustive research, Multiple games watched, and good gut feelings.

*This is a crowd sourced rating. All input will be considered and adjustments will be made as appropriate

How in the world is DeMatha still in tier 2, after barely beating a TERRIBLE Friendship team 17-0? Per your criteria, 7-0 North Allegeny should be at worse, tier 3. They beat Friendship by more points than DeMatha and are undefeated. And please don’t use OLGC as a barometer. They’re not good. They shouldn’t be that high either. They barely beat a horrible Ryken team, a horrible Charlotte Catholic team. They’re not a Top 50 team, and I don’t think they’re Top 100 to be honest. 

Look, I’m all in with SoCal teams being high, I live in LA. But you can’t have these other teams(whom I support by the way) high just to fit your narrative. OLGC is not a signature win for anybody, at this point. 

[Sammyswordsman]

3 minutes ago, GREYHOUNDALUM said:

How in the world is DeMatha still in tier 2, after barely beating a TERRIBLE Friendship team 17-0? Per your criteria, 7-0 North Allegeny should be at worse, tier 3. They beat Friendship by more points than DeMatha and are undefeated. And please don’t use OLGC as a barometer. They’re not good. They shouldn’t be that high either. They barely beat a horrible Ryken team, a horrible Charlotte Catholic team. They’re not a Top 50 team, and I don’t think they’re Top 100 to be honest. 

Look, I’m all in with SoCal teams being high, I live in LA. But you can’t have these other teams(whom I support by the way) high just to fit your narrative. OLGC is not a signature win for anybody, at this point. 

My placement of DeMatha and OLGC come from watching those teams first hand, in person.  Seeing the size on the lines, the athletes in the skill positions and the caliber of the defensive personel.  Imo The bigger question mark is Gonzaga, who I have not seen play and which also performed poorly vs. a very down DBP team.  If any team in the WCAC is getting the benefit of the doubt, it is Gonzaga.

[GREYHOUNDALUM]

4 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

My placement of DeMatha and OLGC come from watching those teams first hand, in person.  Seeing the size on the lines, the athletes in the skill positions and the caliber of the defensive personel.  Imo The bigger question mark is Gonzaga, who I have not seen play and which also performed poorly vs. a very down DBP team.  If any team in the WCAC is getting the benefit of the doubt, it is Gonzaga.

Gonzaga will beat OLGC next week. DM could beat Gonzaga, there’s no question about it, but you just can’t ignore that game they just had against Friendship. No Top 20 team should be within 4 TD’s of that team.

I understand seeing them up close(as have I), but size mean nothing. Neither team has a signature win. DM’s signature win, was beating a former Ohio Powerhouse that actually lost to a Canadian team! So besides that, their claim to fame is getting beat down by a SJB team that might not be as good as previously thought. 

Gonzaga has two wins on their resume(American Heritage and Bosco) better than any win DeMatha has. And like I said, I’m a DM supporter. I hope you’re right and DM wins it all this year in the WCAC, but right now you have them way too high. 

[Rufus69]

5 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Alot of consternation about SJB this week.  Fortunately for the Braves they have quite a resume with convincing wins over Mililani, DeMatha, OLGC.  An added plus for the Braves is that those beaten teams have gone on to do very well against other opponents.

So maybe this was more of a case of Servite being better than expected at this point in the season.  Right now the benefit of the doubt goes to Servite being better, rather than SJB suddenly being worse.

We have added the (Probation *) as a warning to teams that may be in over their heads in their respective Tiers, and the slighest mis step could cause them to drop.

We toyed with moving St. Louis (Hi) to Tier 1 by virtue of their win over BG which in turn beat Servite, but it was decided that S. Louis had a big home field advantage against BG, and BG had a home field advantage plus an early Week 2 advantage of playing a young Servite team.

SJR looked shaky this week after the pummeling at the hands of SFA, eeking out a 1 score win vs. a multi loss non relevant team.  Hence SJR is on probation and may be dropped if they continue to under perform, or if Servite beats their marquee win JSerra worse than SJR did.

We have been looking for a reason to bump Allen up to Tier 2 but cannot find one at this point in the season.

St. Eds and Mentor are huge question marks at this point, but they are getting the benefit of the doubt for the time being.  Mentor beating a very questionable Iggy team by 1 score leaves the door open for all kinds of speculation, and none of it is good for Mentor or St. Eds.

Also considered moving Lowndes to Tier 1 as they have been dominating, however Lowndes does not have the signature OOS win.  Colquitt is another team that maybe should be up one Tier, but the 1 point loss to Valdosta is temporarilly holding them back

Narbonne, East St. Louis, Lincoln way East are dropping into the Tier 5 group with superior athletes, but questionable coaching, and lack of a Marquee win to cite.

In Tier 6 we have the dregs.  Not a good place for a proud program to find itself.

 

Sammy....let me clarify.

A one point loss to Valdosta is being curb-stomped.  Valdosta is a Georgia Bush League nobody.  There is no way Colquitt should be put in any Tier above/below 4.  

Lowndes is the best thing since sliced gluten free multi-grain bread.  I thought MNW was a significant win....and Parkview is for all practical purposes...OOS.  I mean they're up in Metro ATL.

Get your shit together....

 

 

Rufus>>

[imaGoodBoyNow]

5 hours ago, dntn31 said:

 

[abbatt]

Sammy,

i have respect for your effort...observations....but.....your comment about LWE having questionable coaching is confusing. How did you arrive at that reason for dropping them to Tier 5 ? Anyone who is knowledgeable about football in the Midwest would know that LWE has one of the top coaching staffs from any State in that region.They are extremely disciplined and execute at a high level.The team is a product of that....they have very good athletes...but their greatest strength is their cohesivness as a team.....the players completely buy into the coaching and follow their lead. LWE is one of the very few teams in IL this year that I would hold up to any other top team from the region including Mentor and St.Ed`s.

On the other hand...yes...ESL is undisciplined and deficient in fundamentals....if they had LWE`s coaching with their athletes they could probably be a top 35 National program most every year.

I don`t know about Narbonne so i won`t comment.

[imaGoodBoyNow]

5 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

It appears that on field results are ignored during this futile exercise. And the rules are being changed weekly. Losing viewers by the week. Smh. 

As you poignantly state, DMC and GC have now been proven to be Pretenders after this week’s results. 

 

Apparently @Sammyswordsman Thinks Longview is 1 step Below a God Team Tier 😂 

[Sammyswordsman]

4 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

DV and STA win by a combined 89 points and he puts an * next to them. Foolish. His Tainted Tiers are draining credibility from our beloved site. 

He should've done the right and just thing. Drop SJB to T2 for now. If and when they beat MD, upgrade them back then. It truly sucks when homerism trumps reality. He used to be considered a quality poster. 

These data points is where you tend to fail 

beating those teams by 89 points = beating Servite by 1 point.  No bonus for boat racing teams that are significantly inferior programs 

[ECHS05]

6 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

These data points is where you tend to fail 

beating those teams by 89 points = beating Servite by 1 point.  No bonus for boat racing teams that are significantly inferior programs 

Servite is a significantly inferior program.

[Omaha Vol]

The tiers look fine. Just a few minor adjustments here and there are needed. 
I’m most surprised by all of the WCAC naysayers. I’d like to know who all these teams are that would beat DM and GC, or even SJC and Zaga? There are NOT 20 teams that would beat the main three. GC is definitely one of the best 100 teams, MAYBE even top 50. 
Teams are being judged too harshly for close scores (ie SJB/Servite, Katy/Tompkins, DM/Friendship, etc). You guys need to quit daisy chaining. I don’t know how many times I can stress this. When you play these tough as hell schedules like they are these days it will wear down on the players and you will have a few closer calls because of it. Why don’t any of you take that into consideration? 
 

[imaGoodBoyNow]

15 minutes ago, ECHS05 said:

Servite is a significantly inferior program.

SJB just beat a small market team by 1 😝 

[Las Vegas_JC]

 

9 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

We toyed with moving St. Louis (Hi) to Tier 1

SL is legit this year. They have beat all of their opponents in the open league. Which is the best of the best in Hawaii. They have multiple fbs players. They have a good passing scheme and are well coached. 

9 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

 

by virtue of their win over Gorman which in turn beat Servite, but it was decided that S. Louis had a big home field advantage against Gorman

Once again you prove that you did not watch this game. The game plan to stop Gorman has been simple these past two years. Load the box and make them pass. They just can’t pass the ball accurately. 

9 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

 

  and BG had a home field advantage plus an early Week 2 advantage of playing a young Servite team.

Gorman is equally a young team. Leading rusher Cam Barfield is a sophomore. Cyrus Moss also a soph is a young stud leading the defense. Freshman WR Zachariah Branch and his brother sophomore DB Zion Branch have also been big contributors to the team this year. Soph Jaydn Ott also contributed in the win vs Servite. 

 

Oh and BTW Mililani has only beat one team with a winning record in 2019. They have not proved anything this year. 

 

[Coletrain06]

2 hours ago, abbatt said:

Sammy,

i have respect for your effort...observations....but.....your comment about LWE having questionable coaching is confusing. How did you arrive at that reason for dropping them to Tier 5 ? Anyone who is knowledgeable about football in the Midwest would know that LWE has one of the top coaching staffs from any State in that region.They are extremely disciplined and execute at a high level.The team is a product of that....they have very good athletes...but their greatest strength is their cohesivness as a team.....the players completely buy into the coaching and follow their lead. LWE is one of the very few teams in IL this year that I would hold up to any other top team from the region including Mentor and St.Ed`s.

On the other hand...yes...ESL is undisciplined and deficient in fundamentals....if they had LWE`s coaching with their athletes they could probably be a top 35 National program most every year.

I don`t know about Narbonne so i won`t comment.

Agreed about LWE coaching. Every time I've watched them in the past, they've been very well coached, and execute very well. 

Haven't seen them yet this year, but need to

[The Guru]

2 hours ago, Omaha Vol said:

I’d like to know who all these teams are that would beat DM and GC, or even SJC and Zaga? There are NOT 20 teams that would beat the main three. GC is definitely one of the best 100 teams, MAYBE even top 50.

Good Counsel sucks.

Beat Charlotte Catholic by 4, Mount St. Joseph by 12, Friendship Collegiate by 9, St. Mary's Ryken by 3.

🤡

[GREYHOUNDALUM]

52 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

The tiers look fine. Just a few minor adjustments here and there are needed. 
I’m most surprised by all of the WCAC naysayers. I’d like to know who all these teams are that would beat DM and GC, or even SJC and Zaga? There are NOT 20 teams that would beat the main three. GC is definitely one of the best 100 teams, MAYBE even top 50. 
Teams are being judged too harshly for close scores (ie SJB/Servite, Katy/Tompkins, DM/Friendship, etc). You guys need to quit daisy chaining. I don’t know how many times I can stress this. When you play these tough as hell schedules like they are these days it will wear down on the players and you will have a few closer calls because of it. Why don’t any of you take that into consideration? 
 

GC barely beating Ryken and a Charlotte Catholic says a lot. There’s plenty of teams that could beat GC. They’re most definitely not Top 50. Top 100, probably. Also, my analysis of GC comes from also knowing what they have. I know their personnel very well. They have a good defense, but their offense is atrocious. Starting with their QB play. 

DM, Gonzaga, and SJC are all Top 50 teams. And that’s great for one conference. But on field results have to count for something. Right now, only Gonzaga have the results to have them ranked in the Top 25. There’s no question that SJC and DM have more talent than Gonzaga. Who cares. SFA had more talent than Mater Dei, in my opinion. We saw how that turned out, didn’t we? You can’t rank teams on talent, results have to be the common denominator. 

[Bestcoast]

1 hour ago, ECHS05 said:

Servite is a significantly inferior program.

Not anymore 

[abbatt]

Coletrain06,

LWE isn`t as big as they were last year...but they are probably as fast,quick and athletic as any team in Illinois including ESL.

I watched some of the Ignatius / Rockledge game last night and i was impressed with Iggy and really unimpressed with the FL team. How can that team be ranked top 10-12 in Fl. ?  they have 30 -32 kids on the roster......sure they are athletic and fast...but for the most part Iggy stayed with them because of far superior coaching,execution, depth.

Congratulations to St.Ignatius boys Soccer for beating what was the national #1 ranked team IL Peoria Notre Dame 2-0....Friday. PND was over-ranked...probably top 10 nationally...the pollsters got seduced by big wins over average teams.....but still a very impressive victory for Iggy.  They actually played Chicago St.ignatius prep on Saturday....Don`t see a final score for that.

[Texasball]

It’s all bogus - opinions

you don’t even do good job of comparing common opponents - several good examples apply here 

Some teams are held accountable and some are not.

bad understanding of the level of play in other states.

Mind was made up prior to the season that hands down SJB was the #2 team behind MD and there was big gap after that.  

 

 

 

[Sammyswordsman]

46 minutes ago, The Guru said:

Good Counsel sucks.

Beat Charlotte Catholic by 4, Mount St. Joseph by 12, Friendship Collegiate by 9, Beat St. Mary's Ryken by 3.

🤡

You should consider the teams style of play in combination with the scores.

OLGC limits possessions and is most successful with winning these type of low scoring games.  But they have always been in control.  Go watch them in person some time.

[The Guru]

Just now, Sammyswordsman said:

You should consider the teams style of play in combination with the scores.

OLGC limits possessions and is most successful with winning these type of low scoring games.  But they have always been in control.  Go watch them in person some time.

Great teams don't have to limit possessions and run the clock out from the first quarter in order to win games by 4, 12, 9 and 3.

[Sammyswordsman]

2 minutes ago, Texasball said:

It’s all bogus - opinions

you don’t even do good job of comparing common opponents - several good examples apply here 

Some teams are held accountable and some are not.

bad understanding of the level of play in other states.

Mind was made up prior to the season that hands down SJB was the #2 team behind MD and there was big gap after that.  

 

 

 

It would be helpful if you could provide some examples to substantiate your opinion.  Who was held accountable?  Where do the Tiers miss level of play in other states?

Which teams have a better claim to a Tier 1 placement than SJB?

[Sammyswordsman]

2 minutes ago, The Guru said:

Great teams don't have to limit possessions and run the clock out from the first quarter in order to win games by 4, 12, 9 and 3.

Great Teams are in Tier 1.  OLGC is Tier 4