PrepGridiron.com National High School Football Top 25 Reader Poll (Updated 1/5)

[golfaddict1]

8 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

MNW lost to Norland last week. How are they still ranked? 

Imo one down is where this solid poll starts to hiccup.  16 a bit high for DLS, STA doesn’t belong, South Pointe I’ve given up on ever leaving and Union is not better than MIssion Viejo.  

MNW I ranked one spot ahead of MC this week.  From 7 down to 12.  MNW was up 27-7 at the half.  Norland dominated 2nd half.  The game meant nothing to MNW for the playoff seed, Norland not sure where they were or are, but I did read somewhere MNW’s loss gives them an easier path in the playoffs.  Maybe Columbiafan or Nolebull can elaborate on that.  I’m not sure how any 6A playoff path though SoFl is easier.  Carol City, MNW, MC.and a feisty Norland.  

[PrepGridiron]

24 minutes ago, golfaddict1 said:

Imo one down is where this solid poll starts to hiccup.  16 a bit high for DLS, STA doesn’t belong, South Pointe I’ve given up on ever leaving and Union is not better than MIssion Viejo.  

MNW I ranked one spot ahead of MC this week.  From 7 down to 12.  MNW was up 27-7 at the half.  Norland dominated 2nd half.  The game meant nothing to MNW for the playoff seed, Norland not sure where they were or are, but I did read somewhere MNW’s loss gives them an easier path in the playoffs.  Maybe Columbiafan or Nolebull can elaborate on that.  I’m not sure how any 6A playoff path though SoFl is easier.  Carol City, MNW, MC.and a feisty Norland.  

 

50 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

MNW lost to Norland last week. How are they still ranked? 

I hear both of you, but honestly, on any given night the teams you list can lose to a top 3 team in a top 10 state, but they can also beat a number of those same teams and other teams above them. 

For example, who is going to bet against DLS or STA if they play Ben Davis or Trinity (as an example)? 

This season has been weird, but any team you propose to me is probably going to be just outside the top 25 right now anyway and any team you want out is going to be also just outside the top 25. I think there is a lot of parity this year from say Number 6/7 to 35.

[HawgGoneIt]

Kinda neat seeing an Indiana team in the top 10 week after week. 

It's a really good team too. 

I started to ask what the hell this was, USAT or what?! 

 

[golfaddict1]

5 hours ago, PrepGridiron said:

For example, who is going to bet against DLS or STA if they play Ben Davis or Trinity (as an example)? 

https://www.facebook.com/MiamiDolphinsHighSchoolLive/

Have a look at STA hosting Miramar tonight if you have FB.   Maybe STA's new QB Wingo can add a spark to the O to make it mediocre.  Miramar I'm sure will try to force STA to pass, so it will be interesting.     STA's O is too much of a liability imo for a top 25 spot.   Maybe Wingo's athleticism and dual threat capability will help the O put some drives together vs. better teams.   Miramar should be a good test tonight.  

[PrepGridiron]

11 minutes ago, golfaddict1 said:

https://www.facebook.com/MiamiDolphinsHighSchoolLive/

Have a look at STA hosting Miramar tonight if you have FB.   Maybe STA's new QB Wingo can add a spark to the O to make it mediocre.  Miramar I'm sure will try to force STA to pass, so it will be interesting.     STA's O is too much of a liability imo for a top 25 spot.   Maybe Wingo's athleticism and dual threat capability will help the O put some drives together vs. better teams.   Miramar should be a good test tonight.  

I'll try and give it a watch. 

For sure though its style matchups. But how many teams out there have a good enough D to stop STA and a good enough O to score. 

[golfaddict1]

Miramar takes opening drive 79 yds.  PAT blocked by Samuel Jr.  6-0 Miramar.  

STA 3 and out.  Miramar has been moving the chains thus far pretty easily. Into STA territory again.  In again.  2nd drive of 75+ yards.   Miramar 13-0.  1st.

STA comes back aided by a 3rd and 16 Wingo pass conversion that went for 65.  13-7 Miramar end of 1st.   STA has a QB.  Derek Wingo looks good.  Deep ball TD.  14-13 STA.  STA misses a short FG and after a punter muff by Miramar deep in own territory, Wingo gets picked off in the end zone just before the half.  STA 14-13 lead at the half.   

Miramar squibs 2nd half kickoff low and gets a lucky bounce off an a STA defender.  Then a deep connection to a 10.3 track burner Horne to first and goal.  4th and goal from the 1.  Timeout Miramar.  10:01 3rd.  Opt for FG attempt and good.  16-14 Miramar.  

Screen by STA deflected and picked off and taken to the house 45 yards.  23-14 Miramar.   8:27 3rd. 

STA scores on all runs. Carter then Nigel White nice last two runs.  5:43 3rd.   Miramar leads 23-21.  

Troutman pick 6 off a deflection.   STA takes the lead.  Edit.  Block in back on pick.  These announcers blow.   STA inside the 10.  Wingo short sneak for the TD.  27-23 STA.  2 pt failed.  3:11 3rd.  

Miramar to start the 4th 1st and 10 at STA 33.   Miramar takes it in at the 10:49 mark.  30-27 Miramar.  

Wingo didn’t see blitzing defender and gets sacked and stripped.   Next play 37 yard rushing TD.  9:08 4th.  37-27 Miramar.  

Under 7, STA in red zone.  3rd and 6. 6:26.  Wingo forced one again and picked off and taken down to STA 20.  Under 6.  Under 5.  Miramar down to the 1.  The D is getting abused tonight.  TD Miramar.  4:15  Miramar leading 44-27.  

As I mentioned a few weeks back 7A is up for grabs.  I don’t think STA will be in the 25 next week.  

 

[Belly Bob]

I'm starting to worry about the consistency of a poll by committee. 

MNW is ahead of MC but MC is behind BG. How can that be? I take it that the answer is that that's how the votes worked out.

But by what set of principles could that result be consistent (besides the obvious answer: well, that's how the votes worked out)? 

[golfaddict1]

8 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I'm starting to worry about the consistency of a poll by committee. 

MNW is ahead of MC but MC is behind BG. How can that be? I take it that the answer is that that's how the votes worked out.

But by what set of principles could that result be consistent (besides the obvious answer: well, that's how the votes worked out)? 

BG is too high.  Agreed.  

[PrepGridiron]

3 hours ago, golfaddict1 said:

Miramar takes opening drive 79 yds.  PAT blocked by Samuel Jr.  6-0 Miramar.  

STA 3 and out.  Miramar has been moving the chains thus far pretty easily. Into STA territory again.  In again.  2nd drive of 75+ yards.   Miramar 13-0.  1st.

STA comes back aided by a 3rd and 16 Wingo pass conversion that went for 65.  13-7 Miramar end of 1st.   STA has a QB.  Derek Wingo looks good.  Deep ball TD.  14-13 STA.  STA misses a short FG and after a punter muff by Miramar deep in own territory, Wingo gets picked off in the end zone just before the half.  STA 14-13 lead at the half.   

Miramar squibs 2nd half kickoff low and gets a lucky bounce off an a STA defender.  Then a deep connection to a 10.3 track burner Horne to first and goal.  4th and goal from the 1.  Timeout Miramar.  10:01 3rd.  Opt for FG attempt and good.  16-14 Miramar.  

Screen by STA deflected and picked off and taken to the house 45 yards.  23-14 Miramar.   8:27 3rd. 

STA scores on all runs. Carter then Nigel White nice last two runs.  5:43 3rd.   Miramar leads 23-21.  

Troutman pick 6 off a deflection.   STA takes the lead.  Edit.  Block in back on pick.  These announcers blow.   STA inside the 10.  Wingo short sneak for the TD.  27-23 STA.  2 pt failed.  3:11 3rd.  

Miramar to start the 4th 1st and 10 at STA 33.   Miramar takes it in at the 10:49 mark.  30-27 Miramar.  

Wingo didn’t see blitzing defender and gets sacked and stripped.   Next play 37 yard rushing TD.  9:08 4th.  37-27 Miramar.  

Under 7, STA in red zone.  3rd and 6. 6:26.  Wingo forced one again and picked off and taken down to STA 20.  Under 6.  Under 5.  Miramar down to the 1.  The D is getting abused tonight.  TD Miramar.  4:15  Miramar leading 44-27.  

As I mentioned a few weeks back 7A is up for grabs.  I don’t think STA will be in the 25 next week.  

 

I stand corrected, friend. 

[PrepGridiron]

1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

I'm starting to worry about the consistency of a poll by committee. 

MNW is ahead of MC but MC is behind BG. How can that be? I take it that the answer is that that's how the votes worked out.

But by what set of principles could that result be consistent (besides the obvious answer: well, that's how the votes worked out)? 

Why does one win over another have to mean the team can never be rated above? In college it doesn’t work that way. 

[golfaddict1]

7 minutes ago, PrepGridiron said:

I stand corrected, friend. 

3rd dirty martini... it’s helping.  

[Belly Bob]

1 hour ago, PrepGridiron said:

Why does one win over another have to mean the team can never be rated above? In college it doesn’t work that way. 

I don't think it does mean that. In fact, I argued that it made sense for DLS to be ranked ahead of ET at the end of the year in which they played. 

But in this particular case, it's not clear why MC is ranked where it is relative to MNW and BG.

MC has two losses. But so does BG. So that can't be it.

Maybe MC's losses are worse than BG's. But that's not plausible, even by the poll's own lights, considering where IMG and MNW are ranked.

Maybe BG's wins are better than MC's. But that's not plausible either, given that one of MC's big wins is a win over BG.

Now whatever you want to say about why BG is ahead of MC, it should be consistent with MNW's being ahead of MC. 

[Coletrain06]

I thought about this when making my Top 25....... and it's interesting......First and foremost I believe that head to head(h2h) should not play a major role in national rankings.....because you can have daisy chain triangles that don't solve anything, and daisy chain triangles are possible because matchups make games.......h2h is something that should be considered, not something that dictates a heirarchy.

When I do my rankings, I generally try to think how each team would do against all of the top teams. This is why I have BG ahead of MC and MNW. I think BG is a tougher matchup for the majority of teams. Also national rankings have the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately factor. Since their h2h, MC has a 2 score loss to MNW, whom also lost to Norland. Meanwhile BG has a crushing blowout of DLS.

[American Male]

10 hours ago, PrepGridiron said:

 

I hear both of you, but honestly, on any given night the teams you list can lose to a top 3 team in a top 10 state, but they can also beat a number of those same teams and other teams above them. 

For example, who is going to bet against DLS or STA if they play Ben Davis or Trinity (as an example)? 

This season has been weird, but any team you propose to me is probably going to be just outside the top 25 right now anyway and any team you want out is going to be also just outside the top 25. I think there is a lot of parity this year from say Number 6/7 to 35.

I'd take Ben Davis over both DLS and STA,...And, I'd take Trinity over STA and call it a toss up with DLS!!!

[Belly Bob]

12 hours ago, Coletrain06 said:

I thought about this when making my Top 25....... and it's interesting......First and foremost I believe that head to head(h2h) should not play a major role in national rankings.....because you can have daisy chain triangles that don't solve anything, and daisy chain triangles are possible because matchups make games.......h2h is something that should be considered, not something that dictates a heirarchy.

When I do my rankings, I generally try to think how each team would do against all of the top teams. This is why I have BG ahead of MC and MNW. I think BG is a tougher matchup for the majority of teams. Also national rankings have the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately factor. Since their h2h, MC has a 2 score loss to MNW, whom also lost to Norland. Meanwhile BG has a crushing blowout of DLS.

The how-would-this-team-do-against-all-of-the-other-top-teams principle is interesting, and I've wondered myself whether polls should be organized around a principle like that, but I think that it would probably be hard to defend against those who'd disagree with its application.

If you say, "BG would do better against the other top teams than MC or MNW," and someone else says, "No, that's not true," then you'd both probably appeal to h2h match-ups and to relevant wins and losses to make your case. So I'd bet that those things are more fundamental.

The what-have-you-done-for-me-lately principle might do it, but I doubt it, only because BG's win against DLS was a long time ago and just one week after their loss to MC and because MNW lost to Norland just last week, yet MNW is ahead of both BG and MC in this poll. 

[golfaddict1]

I still like the Pod way of rankings.  Rank the power states, sprinkle in the rest and have at it as you wish.  Full season, who’s hot now, all good w Pods.  

Judson’s star QB didn’t play last night due to a knee injury and a RB was finishing the 4th and OT.  Nonetheless, there are teams deserving of that top 25 spot now.  Judson with their star QB can find their way back in with a playoff run.  

 

[PrepGridiron]

Week 12 Top 25 Rankings. Updated 11/8/2017. 

1. IMG Academy (FL) 
2. Mater Dei (CA) 
3. Allen (TX) 
4. Centennial (CA)
5. American Heritage (FL)
6. St. Frances Academy (MD) 
7. Ben Davis (IN) 
8. Katy (TX)
9. Bishop Gorman (NV) 
10. Miami Central (FL)
11. Bingham (UT) 
12. St. John Bosco (CA)
13. Trinity (KY) 
14. Lowndes (GA)
15. St. Joseph's Prep (PA)
16. De La Salle (CA)
17. Miami Northwestern (FL) 
18. South Pointe (SC) 
19. St. John's College (DC)
20. Archer (GA)
21. St. Ignatius (OH) 
22. Union (OK)
23. Pine-Richland (PA)
24. Mission Viejo (CA)
25. St. Xavier (OH)

On the Bubble:  Grayson (GA), St. Edward (OH), Duncanville (TX), Brentwood Academy (TN)

[golfaddict1]

*IMG excluded

[Omaha Vol]

10 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

No idea how MNW is still ranked. They lost to Norland!!!

Because they beat Central!!

[golfaddict1]

16 minutes ago, Omaha Vol said:

Because they beat Central!!

MNW likely round 2 matchup next week vs MC ll.  Norland faces a weaker version of Mainland historically round 1. 

Union (watched them vs Owasso) and South Pole are the low hanging fruit imo.  92 but bonus 2 pts each for bubble teams first 2. Solid A  96.  

[Coletrain06]

3 minutes ago, golfaddict1 said:

MNW likely round 2 matchup next week vs MC ll.  Norland faces a weaker version of Mainland historically round 1. 

Union (watched them vs Owasso) and South Pole are the low hanging fruit imo.  92 but bonus 2 pts each for bubble teams first 2. Solid A  96.  

Agreed about Union and South Pointe......Watched Union vs. Owasso and Jenks, and South Pointe vs. Buford...........

Union's defense is not good at all. South Pointe is solid, but not sure about top 25.

[PrepGridiron]

38 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

No idea how MNW is still ranked. They lost to Norland!!!

They choked versus Norland. Probably give them the rematch.

[golfaddict1]

21 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Unless one loses to a T10 team, there should never be 'second chances' in hsfb ranking. Same in college. IMO Clemson shouldn't be highly ranked after losing to SU. Just me. 

What if St Iggy takes OH.  Is that one differential loss a season make?  

[golfaddict1]

2 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

They're currently my #22. They have four wins over T70 teams. Those wins trump that one bad loss. Iggy is better than Norland (467 vs 606). And MNW only has one win the T70. 

Let’s see how MNW-MC ll next week turns out.  One bad half of pre playoffs celebration perhaps, but I believe 27-7  MNW 1st half is more indicative of a ranking differential than 21-0 Norland 2nd half in a meaningless game before the playoffs.  MC beat BG on the road and  gave IMG their toughest battle, also a road game.  Unless an injury bug hit MNW, they will be a tough out.  

 

[Omaha Vol]

1 hour ago, GardenStateBaller said:

STA beat SJB, who's ranked higher than MC in most polls!! Should STA still be ranked then? 

You mean should SJB still be ranked? The answer is yes.