OK Pops, CP had all year... let’s discuss :)

[HawgGoneIt]

20 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

This is exactly why I invite crowd sourcing for the Tiers.  When posters provide an alert about a good team flying under the radar, we can watch film and see how they move, level of competition, etc. and then insert them into a Tier.

Yeah, I don't disagree that this is a good way to identify teams. 

Even in-state polls start out with teams that just don't belong. It makes it very difficult to create a decent starting poll. Heavily talented teams get too much credit early, and it's just difficult to drop them once they've started high. It's tough to admit that we made a mistake so we try to forgive it and hang on hoping that something changes. 

I think we all try to decide how many teams from each "power" state should be ranked and then mash them together in some form. We will likely all, almost always disagree on how many from each state should be ranked in the top 25 for instance. I think your tiers makes this an easier issue to deal with, but, we are left without much of an understanding as to how closely these teams all are in reality. Even you struggled with explaining this at times and adjusted the reasoning on the fly. We end up with the same issue... not much proof. 

We will also disagree if someone sticks in a team like Caj's ULab. I'm not sure we really should though. They probably have as much of a claim to being ranked as anyone early. Because CP doesn't list them up high, then humans don't really notice. This is why CP will never go away. For better or worse, it has entrenched itself into the fabric of polling. I lean toward worse, but, who really cares. It's all a beauty pageant anyway. 

Ever had to sit through one of those? They mostly suck. Just like the polls. 

 

[Sammyswordsman]

1 minute ago, Sportsnut said:

I was simply saying that I don't think they were that good. They could be beat. 

You see, I see things a bit differently. When Norcross got labeled, they were not the best team in Georgia.

So many feel Norcross was the standard. Not true.

Fair enough....Which teams have you watched that were better than 2017 Mater Dei?

How did Norcross finish the year in 2013?

[Sammyswordsman]

4 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Yeah, I don't disagree that this is a good way to identify teams. 

Even in-state polls start out with teams that just don't belong. It makes it very difficult to create a decent starting poll. Heavily talented teams get too much credit early, and it's just difficult to drop them once they've started high. It's tough to admit that we made a mistake so we try to forgive it and hang on hoping that something changes. 

I think we all try to decide how many teams from each "power" state should be ranked and then mash them together in some form. We will likely all, almost always disagree on how many from each state should be ranked in the top 25 for instance. I think your tiers makes this an easier issue to deal with, but, we are left without much of an understanding as to how closely these teams all are in reality. Even you struggled with explaining this at times and adjusted the reasoning on the fly. We end up with the same issue... not much proof. 

We will also disagree if someone sticks in a team like Caj's ULab. I'm not sure we really should though. They probably have as much of a claim to being ranked as anyone early. Because CP doesn't list them up high, then humans don't really notice. This is why CP will never go away. For better or wors, it has entrenched itself into the fabric of polling. I lean toward worse, but, who really cares. It's all a beauty pageant anyway. 

Ever had to sit through one of those? They mostly suck. Just like the polls. 

 

ULAB may very well be all that, but unless they have a schedule to "prove their mettle", it's tough to stick your neck out for a team that has only downside (potentially losing) to a nobody, and no chance of beating a somebody. (aka Folsom rule)

Thats why teams like Muskegon and Owasso suddenly appear as ranked very late in the season.

[golfaddict1]

49 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I enjoy the polls as much as anyone. I think it's a lot of fun arguing about it all. 

I honestly don't think any of the polls are willing to accept a mistake in their poll early. CP included. CP may be the worst at it actually, and then the human polls mostly stay the course as well, although some are much quicker to recognize the "miss" and start adjusting, but, never enough quickly enough imo. They ease out of the mistake so as to not readily admit how bad it was. I don't really care, it's just an observation as I have been watching the polls for several years now. 

The nature of CP won't let it recognize a mistake as early on, which is why you see guys like Pops saying we shouldn't put much stock in it until October. This leads me to wonder, if that is true, which I do sort of believe... Why in the actual hell is almost every human poll so damn similar to the stupid thing? 

 

I totally agree with Sportsnut that there are teams out there each year that aren't getting recognition that probably deserve it. Now, all of us that follow heavily understand the reasoning for this is that it takes more than a flash in the pan year to get ranked. It takes being at or near the top for a length of time, then putting together enough of a schedule to ring some pollster's bells. Nobody could ever guess annually which little team from which state will be the one missing the recognition they deserve. That's why I like these message boards actually. 

I think the pollsters would do well to pay attention to threads like the ones Caj posts showing talent laden teams that aren't brand names in Louisiana. I think we all should in all honesty. There are teams like that out there in many states. I do also wish those teams played schedules that at least connected in some ways to other teams we know more about, but that is a human issue to me. We just can't let go of the name brand teams, so we feel the need to have any ranked team be connected to them in some form. Not sure if there is a good way to fix that issue honestly. 

The teams that hover near the top for the longest are always going to be ranked and have the best shots at MNC's. It's just how it is. 

Pickerington Central, Pine Richland and Judson I recall as seeing some nice veterans and quality squad reviews via CP for preseason data and that’s my diamonds in the rough watch list aid annually.  No secret there.  It’s not always going to execute that way as Judson sort of fizzled at the end for example.  Injuries and other situations adjust the scales a bit.   This tool is what keeps the ratings grounded until enough quality games are played.  It also inflates the heavy D1 schools quite a bit until enough games are played.   It’s not perfect but it’s better (not a fan of his last state scale but we can nitpick human pollster choices easily too I’m sure).   

Stanton rule I agreed with actually.  But that’s for another day lol.  

Im not ashamed to say I used CP data among other local and national sources to pick games years back and outKirk CP after Oct 1  and for poll ranking purposes.  

Imo, if you practice or research enough you tend to get lucky more often.  

Out of curiosity wonder if the new gambling decision ruling by the Supreme Court will affect hsfb games (more games, more sites) in the future.  5dimes had a handful of games a week is all we had and it was kind of weird betting on them.   

 

[golfaddict1]

@Pops, did you catch this on the news at 10?  Savage HS move from WI   

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/police-praise-wis-high-school-for-best-senior-prank/89-552214331

[hardhit1]

3 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Fair enough....Which teams have you watched that were better than 2017 Mater Dei?

How did Norcross finish the year in 2013?

IMG was the only team that was better or were they?

theres the short answer that you were waiting for😩

[Sammyswordsman]

17 minutes ago, hardhit1 said:

 

theres the short answer that you were waiting for😩

Not really.  I just wanted to hear the young man out.  Without judgement. 

 

[Pops]

4 hours ago, Sportsnut said:

I was simply saying that I don't think they were that good. They could be beat. 

You see, I see things a bit differently. When Norcross got labeled, they were not the best team in Georgia.

So many feel Norcross was the standard. Not true.

My team would have kicked that Florida teams ass.

BTW, yeah right.

This is so GA

your team gets beat by Norcross ‘13 but younwouldnjave kicked BTW’s ass 

sounds like this guy

 

[Blueliner]

4 hours ago, Sportsnut said:

My team would have kicked that Florida teams ass.

BTW, yeah right.

WTF?!

[Blueliner]

4 hours ago, Sportsnut said:

 

I think several teams here could have beat MD last year. 

 

WTF #2?!!

[Wooderson]

7 hours ago, golfaddict1 said:

Examples?  

The fact that Ben Davis has gotten as much top-tier hype as they have is about as indicting as it gets for the national rankings. Athletic quarterback partnered with a group of linemen who possess zero tangible evidence of "athleticism" or "fitness" that would get curb-stomped by no less than five teams in Arizona.

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

5 hours ago, Pops said:

This is so GA

your team gets beat by Norcross ‘13 but younwouldnjave kicked BTW’s ass 

sounds like this guy

 

There's a couple in every group, and you're one of them from Cali.

Until I see a neutral unbiased assessment.

It's just smack talk and nothing more.

[Pops]

19 minutes ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

There's a couple in every group, and you're one of them from Cali.

Until I see a neutral unbiased assessment.

It's just smack talk and nothing more.

try to stay in character

ehen it’s all Ga guys, you get too pompous and when it’s not you get too testy 

I think you’re trying to be a humorous character — am I right?

hard to tell with the mood swings

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

Just now, Pops said:

try to stay in character

ehen it’s all Ga guys, you get too pompous and when it’s not you get too testy 

I think you’re trying to be a humorous character — am I right?

hard to tell with the mood swings

Who does? We’re fighting the Cali horde of Huns with pea shooters. 

You’re entrenched and unreasonable, I see defensive posturing that can be construed as the above. 

Its all good. 

[HawgGoneIt]

15 minutes ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

Who does? We’re fighting the Cali horde of Huns with pea shooters. 

 

Bring on the damn Cali horde of Huns! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will eff them up! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pops]

1 minute ago, Sportsnut said:

Many in Georgia felt Lovejoy would have beat that BTW team.

This explains a lot 

do many in Ga also lovejoy would beat Alabama?

exact same percent of happening 

[Pops]

1 minute ago, Sportsnut said:

2010-2013 Lovejoy,

I will put those teams up against anyone.

They’d get running clocked all 4 years by DLS

and your credibility has been nuclear evaporated in this thread 

[On2whls]

59 minutes ago, Sportsnut said:

You don't know us very well, do you?

You’re sounding like Gollum there.

[golfaddict1]

9 hours ago, Wooderson said:

The fact that Ben Davis has gotten as much top-tier hype as they have is about as indicting as it gets for the national rankings. Athletic quarterback partnered with a group of linemen who possess zero tangible evidence of "athleticism" or "fitness" that would get curb-stomped by no less than five teams in Arizona.

Ben Davis.  Good add.  

Thought at first they didn’t have a top 250 foe (had 2).    

Pine Richland might be one folks question in review...  we’ll see.  Not many offering opinions yet.  

 

 

 

[Sammyswordsman]

30 minutes ago, golfaddict1 said:

Ben Davis.  Good add.  

Thought at first they didn’t have a top 250 foe (had 2).    

Pine Richland might be one folks question in review...  we’ll see.  Not many offering opinions yet.  

 

 

 

I remember questioning Ben Davis last year in the Tiers.  The Ohio guys were adamant that Ben Davis belonged despite not really being challenged by a Top 50-100 team.

 

 

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

3 hours ago, Pops said:

They’d get running clocked all 4 years by DLS

and your credibility has been nuclear evaporated in this thread 

nuclear evaporated... I actually like it!

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

32 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

I remember questioning Ben Davis last year in the Tiers.  The Ohio guys were adamant that Ben Davis belonged despite not really being challenged by a Top 50-100 team.

 

 

Thats funny considering theyre in Indiana... 

[Sammyswordsman]

7 minutes ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

Thats funny considering theyre in Indiana... 

Unlike evidently Ga posters....The Ohio guys can provide un biased regional feedback.

Most Georgia guys have such an inferiority complex that precludes an honest take that doesn't benefit Georgia

You won't be credible until you Admit that the Stache is the legit national champions for 2017.

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

10 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Unlike evidently Ga posters....The Ohio guys can provide un biased regional feedback.

Most Georgia guys have such an inferiority complex that precludes an honest take that doesn't benefit Georgia

You won't be credible until you Admit that the Stache is the legit national champions for 2017.

I thought you where saying that Ben Davis was in Ohio... thats a mistake on my part. 

And you can kiss my ass I never even got into the MD debate BS... all I said is that their schedule was a bit lacking in my  opinion and I stand by it... 

And if you dont like my opinion thwn tough titty cause I aint changing it...

[Pops]

3 hours ago, Sportsnut said:

You ask other Georgia posters.

They will tell you reluctantly about us then.

Ok

dear other GA posters:

anyone want to back Lovejoy over BTW in ‘13 or DLS for any of ‘10-‘13

asking for a friend