181pl Posted October 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 18 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: And Israel's response would've been the same had it been IDF soldiers in their place. I'm sorry that I know way more about this than you do. You’re an idiot. Israelis value life. They don’t abuse it and they don’t relish and taking it. Especially in the manner the other side does. You can’t show one example of that because you’re an unhinged asshole. Who is clearly on the wrong side of history. Amazing how entrenched you are on the side of evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, 181pl said: You’re an idiot. I'm right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, 181pl said: You’re an idiot. Israelis value life. They don’t abuse it and they don’t relish and taking it. Especially in the manner the other side does. You can’t show one example of that because you’re an unhinged asshole. Who is clearly on the wrong side of history. Amazing how entrenched you are on the side of evil. This is just filibustering. You're factually wrong on this and have no other response. So of course you just resort to spouting nonsense. Go read something on this before opening your mouth and sticking your foot in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 25 minutes ago, 181pl said: You’re an idiot. Israelis value life. They don’t abuse it and they don’t relish and taking it. Especially in the manner the other side does. You can’t show one example of that because you’re an unhinged asshole. Who is clearly on the wrong side of history. Amazing how entrenched you are on the side of evil. Indeed, but did Netanyahu and his cabinet want a two state solution? There have been articles shared in this thread and I strongly felt/feel that building developments in the West Bank is adding salt to an open wound, also mentioned prior in thread. Netanyahu will have to defend his stance after the extended Hamas cleansing and that’s likely not going to be a popular viewpoint with some power countries, including the U.S. Also depending on the impact on non violent Palestinians during this expected lengthy Hamas cleansing, likely will also dictate a 2 state solution popularity stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
181pl Posted October 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said: This is just filibustering. You're factually wrong on this and have no other response. So of course you just resort to spouting nonsense. Go read something on this before opening your mouth and sticking your foot in it. No, give me your examples. I want to know about the war crimes perpetrated by the IDF against civilians. Or the mass murder of civilians. Not collateral damage caused by a cowardly enemy said hides among civilians. come on Alinsky. Your time is up. Support your bullshit position or shut the fuck up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
181pl Posted October 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, golfaddict1 said: Indeed, but did Netanyahu and his cabinet want a two state solution? There have been articles shared in this thread and I strongly felt/feel that building developments in the West Bank is adding salt to an open wound, also mentioned prior in thread. Netanyahu will have to defend his stance after the extended Hamas cleansing and that’s likely not going to be a popular viewpoint with some power countries, including the U.S. Also depending on the impact on non violent Palestinians during this expected lengthy Hamas cleansing, likely will also dictate a 2 state solution popularity stance. look, Netanyahu, and the conservatives over there have not made it easy on themselves. Should a two state solution include the West Bank and Gaza? Or just the West Bank or an expanded Gaza with a little more coast, and a good swath of southern Israel? I think it would be foolish to have enemies that want your destruction poised in both your north and south, I don’t have the answer. And since the Palestinians will not come to the table, maybe the United States, Israel, the united nations, and Jordan or Egypt, acting on behalf of Palestinians, can come up with a solution. Well beyond my pay grade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 181, was just going to post an update fyi. https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/middleeast/jabalya-blast-gaza-intl/index.html I’ll review your post above later as I need to buy Halloween candy before 5 kids or less visit for 20+ years in a row. Thus, snickers or butterfingers or Twix in play. Some of my favs. American Jews trick or treat. Orthodox and Israelis don’t. 😞 I live in a community with a large pct of Orthodox and Israelis. You really see it come Christmas time. I think we are the only ones on our street that decorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolebull813 Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 Insurrectionists storming the capitol https://www.yahoo.com/news/blinken-testimony-israel-hamas-conflict-144955401.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 4 hours ago, 181pl said: No, give me your examples. I want to know about the war crimes perpetrated by the IDF against civilians. The fact that you're asking this question is proof that you're clueless. Literally, just look up any confrontation that the IDF has had in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. First Intifada they killed ~1,900 people. Second Intifada they killed ~3,000 people. 2006 War in Lebanon they killed 1,000 people and leveled entire residential buildings in Beirut. This isn't even disputed by the IDF itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 4 hours ago, 181pl said: Not collateral damage caused by a cowardly enemy said hides among civilians. This is always the weasel phrase that is used by people who don't actually care about the Arabs that are being killed. They just love to pretend that they do. "Give me examples of the IDF killing civilians!" (Countless examples presented) "Those don't count because they were probably trying to kill terrorists and the building just collapsed on all the civilians!" This is unserious stuff from unserious people. Stop being a poser, dude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 4 hours ago, golfaddict1 said: 181, was just going to post an update fyi. https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/middleeast/jabalya-blast-gaza-intl/index.html It's generally good to wait awhile on stories like this because both sides are invested in misinformation about deaths/targets/etc. But it's almost impossible for stuff like this *not* to happen. Gaza has 2.2 million people. It's guaranteed that Israel will kill thousands of civilians if they level entire neighborhoods/buildings/etc. In fact this is old hat for the IDF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 Israel not even denying this one. Speaking to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, IDF spokesperson Lt. Col. Richard Hecht accused Hamas of “hiding, as they do, behind civilians.” Reminded that there are many innocent civilians in the camp, Hecht responded, “This is the tragedy of war” and urged civilians to move south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 On 10/30/2023 at 4:42 PM, 181pl said: of course not. But you have the radical left clearly supporting Hamas. I know every Palestinian in Gaza is not guilty of terrorism. They are guilty of is apathy. They’ve let Hamas run that place for 16 years with no elections. Brother...nobody supports Hamas. If you truly believe this all I can say is that you are wrong. If you do not believe this then why say the worst thing that you can about so many of your fellow Americans? Not helpful is an understatement. This is such a complicated issue and I am certainly not smart enough to come up with any solutions but I can still be saddened by the loss of innocent life on both sides. It is the governments and those who have control (on both sides) that are responsible for all this. Not the innocent. Same with Ukraine. Putin is responsible and not the Russian people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 19 hours ago, 181pl said: look, Netanyahu, and the conservatives over there have not made it easy on themselves. Should a two state solution include the West Bank and Gaza? Or just the West Bank or an expanded Gaza with a little more coast, and a good swath of southern Israel? I think it would be foolish to have enemies that want your destruction poised in both your north and south, I don’t have the answer. And since the Palestinians will not come to the table, maybe the United States, Israel, the united nations, and Jordan or Egypt, acting on behalf of Palestinians, can come up with a solution. Well beyond my pay grade. My wife’s aunt setup a nice boat ride in Potsdam, where the 3 of us got to see the building up on a hill where the infamous Potsdam conference took place in 1945. Many items were discussed and implemented, but a main one was deciding about Poland. I’m hoping a similar conference takes place (after the Hamas cleansing) with world powers to decide if a 2 state option is best and if so, setting the borders with “UN” approval of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfaddict1 Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 15 hours ago, Atticus Finch said: It's generally good to wait awhile on stories like this because both sides are invested in misinformation about deaths/targets/etc. But it's almost impossible for stuff like this *not* to happen. Gaza has 2.2 million people. It's guaranteed that Israel will kill thousands of civilians if they level entire neighborhoods/buildings/etc. In fact this is old hat for the IDF. True. My initial reason for sharing the post was seeing a Twitter headline about a Hamas target being killed. Then I chose CNN to share and the headline didn’t mention it. That wasn’t my best effort… should have picked a headline with the killing. The article has been updated since my post and shows a new headline. It’s madness there. IDF is pushing Palestinians south, but it’s not easy to migrate at the speed IDF is hoping for it seems and likely Hamas is not making it easy for their migration either. More deaths of innocent Palestinians is Hamas propaganda. IDF is dropping leaflets, but that can’t move speed. As you indicated, impossible for innocent loss of Palestinian lives and also when IDF gets deep into house to house maneuvers and dealing with tall building snipers, there will be loss of lives on their side also. It’s truly a clusterfuck situation right now. Hopefully enough trucks of aid arrive in time, but I also read that a building storing supplies was raided and stolen by a small group of citizens. Helter Skelter. Zero trick or treaters last night. New record. 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan in daytona Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 Indiscriminate bombing in highly populated areas is dead wrong even if you didn't start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 On 10/28/2023 at 10:06 AM, Atticus Finch said: Ah, yes. Now you want to provide context. One of the biggest dipshits on this forum who before today was totally willing to make blanket statements about a group of people now has enough nuance to write a 6 paragraph explanation for Jewish terrorism. Context is important. Such as pointing out that the King David Hotel housed British governmental and military offices, which were exactly the part of the hotel that was attacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 On 10/29/2023 at 10:50 AM, 15yds4gibberish said: Israeli public opinion and Israeli leadership both say differently. Public Opinion Pew Research: Netanyahu to Likud 2019: “Those who want to thwart the possibility of a Palestinian state should support the strengthening of Hamas and the transfer of money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy.” Interestingly, look at the numbers for Arab Israelis. Even they turn on the crazy cousins next door lobbing rockets at them indiscriminately. Imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 "If the Arab lay down their arms there would no more war, but if Israel lays down its weapons there would be no more Israel." -Golda Meir "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.” - Golda Meir 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaximumHornetSting Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 21 hours ago, World Citizen said: Brother...nobody supports Hamas. If you truly believe this all I can say is that you are wrong. If you do not believe this then why say the worst thing that you can about so many of your fellow Americans? Not helpful is an understatement. This is such a complicated issue and I am certainly not smart enough to come up with any solutions but I can still be saddened by the loss of innocent life on both sides. It is the governments and those who have control (on both sides) that are responsible for all this. Not the innocent. Same with Ukraine. Putin is responsible and not the Russian people. I unfortunately have seen some ignorant people call Hamas freedom fighters on twitter and had a classmate call them resistance fighters.... And like I stated in another thread Hamas is a horrible representative for their people. They are nothing more than a Diet Theocracy and if given what they wanted they would be another Iran... possibly worse... That being said both Isreali's and Palestinians deserve better leaders and government heads... What Hamas did on Oct 7th. Only added fuel to the fire for something I feel Netanyahu has wanted to do for awhile now... And here we are... Unfortunately neither side is going to be honest about anything happening... Hamas blowing up one of their own hospitals with a rocket misfire... Isreal blowing up a refugee camp... I have a hard time believing that Hamas Isn't hiding their weapons and soldiers amongst civilians and civilian places but you can't just blow up shit the civilians need and killing innocents thats how you turn even more of them to extremism... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM IRONMAN Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 Let’s not forget the poor Ivy League students who were filmed tearing down the missing persons photos of Jews in Gaza. MSM defends them saying they are under so much stress that it’s ok what they are doing. Insane! oh and one would think if you were smart enough to get into Cornell you would not be dumb enough to leave an internet trail on your hate speech and potential hate crimes 🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-rocket-and-mortar-attacks-against-israel 2023 October 7-31 8,500+ In the early days of the war in Gaza started by the Hamas infiltration and attack on Israeli civilians, more than 6,000 rockets were fired from Gaza. The bombardment has continued. July 27 1 Rocket One rocket was launched from the area of Jenin toward northern Israel but fell inside the West Bank. July 5 5 Rockets Five rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel. All were intercepted. May 14 1 Rocket Following the agreed cease-fire, PIJ fired one rocket which it blamed on a technical error. May 10-13 1,469 Rockets The IDF reported that 1,468 rockets were launched into Israel during Operation Shield and Arrow; 291 fell in Gaza; and 437 were intercepted by Iron Dome. Two rockets aimed at Tel Aviv were shot down by David’s Sling, and most of the rest landed in open areas without causing damage. One Israeli was killed when a rocket hit an apartment in Rehovot. A Palestinian laborer from Gaza working in Israel also died in a rocket strike. April 9 3 Rockets Three rockets were fired from Syria toward the Golan Heights, one falling in an open area and one intercepted by the Iron Dome. The third rocket did not cross into Israeli territory. April 8 3 Rockets Three rockets were fired from Syria toward the Golan Heights, one of the rockets fell in an open area in the southern Golan Heights, while another fell in Jordanian territory. April 6-7 40+ Rockets More than 40 rockets were fired from Gaza. One of the rockets fell on a home in Sderot and 14 fell in open areas. No injuries were caused by the rocket fire. April 6 34 Rockets Thirty-four rockets were fired from Lebanon, of which Israeli air-defense systems intercepted 25, and five landed in Israeli territory. April 5 16 Rockets Sixteen rockets were fired from Gaza. Most were shot down or fell in open areas. One of the rockets struck a factory in Sderot, but no casualties were reported. February 23 6 Rockets Six rockets fired from Gaza; five were intercepted by Iron Dome, the sixth fell in an open area. February 11 1 Rocket One rocket was fired from Gaza and was intercepted by Iron Dome. February 1 1 Rocket One rocket was fired from Gaza and was intercepted by Iron Dome. January 3 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza landed in an open field inside the Gaza Strip. 2022 December 3 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza landed in an open field near the communities of Nahal Oz and Kfar Aza. November 3 4 Rockets Four rockets were fired from Gaza, one was intercepted by Israeli air defense systems, while three landed inside Gaza. August 5-8 1,100 Rockets An estimated 1,100 rockets were launched from Gaza by Islamic Jihad. At least 200 malfunctioned and exploded within the Gaza Strip, and the Iron Dome intercepted 380. July 16 4 Rockets Four rockets were fired from Gaza, one was intercepted by Israeli air defense systems, while three fell into open areas. June 18 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza toward Ashkelon was intercepted. April 22 3 Rockets Three rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip at Israel, with two exploding inside the enclave. April 20 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza landed in Sderot. No injuries were reported but several people were being treated for shock. April 18 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza was intercepted by Iron Dome. 2021 September 11 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza was intercepted by Iron Dome. September 10 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza was intercepted by Iron Dome. August 16 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza was intercepted by Iron Dome. May 10-20 4,369 Rockets More than 4,369 rockets were launched toward Sderot, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Jerusalem and neighboring communities. Ten Israelis were killed. More than 90 percent of projectiles heading toward populated areas were intercepted by Iron Dome. Roughly a third of the rockets landed inside the Gaza Strip. Most of the others landed in open fields. May 9 6 Rockets Six rockets were fired from Gaza. Two were intercepted by the Iron Dome, two fell in open areas and two landed in the Gaza Strip. April 25 5 Rockets Five rockets were fired from Gaza. Iron Dome anti-missile defence system intercepted two rockets and the others fell either in uninhabited areas or inside the Gaza Strip. April 24 2 Rockets Two rockets fired from Gaza. One was intercepted by Iron Dome, the other fell in an open area near the border fence. April 23 36 Rockets Thirty-Six rockets fired from Gaza; six intercepted by Iron Dome. April 15 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza. January 20 1 Rocket One rocket fired from Gaza January 18 2 Rockets Two rockets landed harmlessly in open areas near Ashdod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 Apparently, Israelis care more about Palestinian civilians than Hamas does. Hamas hides near (and under) schools, hospitals, residential buildings and the like while telling their own people to stay in place and be shields and cannon fodder for them. Israelis are actually warning Gazans ahead of time about what's coming and to save themselves. A stark contrast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM IRONMAN Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 3 hours ago, concha said: Apparently, Israelis care more about Palestinian civilians than Hamas does. Hamas hides near (and under) schools, hospitals, residential buildings and the like while telling their own people to stay in place and be shields and cannon fodder for them. Israelis are actually warning Gazans ahead of time about what's coming and to save themselves. A stark contrast. It makes too much sense, they won’t understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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