Some California news

[Bodysurf]

4 minutes ago, On2whls said:

Sooooo, if there are clearly “tiers”, why not just set playoff brackets that emulate the tiers.  Should Tier 1 teams be allowed to play Tier 4 teams in playoffs?

Yes they should. There are too many watered down playoff divisions. I don’t like the ‘everybody gets a trophy’ philosophy. I didn’t like it when the playoffs were reduced from 16 to 8 teams. I love how Texas does it with a 64 team bracket.

[Adam_MD_Alum]

Just now, Bodysurf said:

Yes they should. There are too many watered down playoff divisions. I don’t like the ‘everybody gets a trophy’ philosophy. I didn’t like it when the playoffs were reduced from 16 to 8 teams. I love how Texas does it with a 64 team bracket.

Respectfully disagree, at least in So Cal. The difference in competition is too great. No one wants to see multiple blowouts in rounds 1-2. 

I agree TX brackets are more fun/anything goes, but they for the most part don’t do OOS or play the top teams in their division (like Folsom/DLS a decade ago). 
 

in CA, we know who the top 4 teams are; doubling that makes it interesting, 16 teams would just suck for the non-top 8 teams. Better let them compete for a title in D1 and save the Open for the big boys. 

[On2whls]

3 minutes ago, Bodysurf said:

Yes they should. There are too many watered down playoff divisions. I don’t like the ‘everybody gets a trophy’ philosophy. I didn’t like it when the playoffs were reduced from 16 to 8 teams. I love how Texas does it with a 64 team bracket.

That would be cool if this was Texas, but it’s not.  There is some semblance of parity there.  

[Ararar]

If the playoffs started today 

1	Mater Dei (Santa Ana, CA)   team preview   trend	Southern	Trinity		1-0	0-0	0-0	123.0	74.8	1-1
WINS: #10 Duncanville (TX) (45-3), LOSSES: none

 

2	St. John Bosco (Bellflower, CA)   team preview   trend	Southern	Trinity		3-0	0-0	2-0	109.1	52.8	1-5
WINS: #13 Central (Miami, FL) (35-12), #61 Alemany (Mission Hills, CA) (24-3), #480 Bishop Amat (La Puente, CA) (47-7), LOSSES: none

 

3	Servite (Anaheim, CA)   team preview   trend	Southern	Trinity		2-0	0-0	2-0	91.5	47.2	3-3
WINS: #46 Mission Viejo (CA) (44-7), #390 Edison (Huntington Beach, CA) (54-14), LOSSES: none

 

4	Centennial (Corona, CA)   team preview   trend	Southern	Big VIII		2-0	0-0	1-0	79.4	61.3	4-2
WINS: #38 Sierra Canyon (Chatsworth, CA) (35-14), #44 Cathedral (San Diego, CA) (57-14), LOSSES: none

 

5	Sierra Canyon (Chatsworth, CA)   team preview   trend	Southern	Gold Coast		2-1	0-0	2-1	62.2	45.9	3-4
WINS: #401 Oaks Christian (Westlake Village, CA) (21-9), #842 JSerra (San Juan Capistrano, CA) (40-14), LOSSES: #7 Centennial (Corona, CA) (35-14)

 

6	Los Alamitos (CA)   team preview   trend	Southern	Sunset		3-0	0-0	1-0	61.1	18.2	2-7
WINS: #101 Lincoln [Abraham] (San Diego, CA) (21-17), #2562 Bakersfield (CA) (65-18), #4748 Paramount (CA) (50-0), LOSSES: none

 

7	Mission Viejo (CA)   team preview   trend	Southern	South Coast		2-1	0-0	2-1	60.2	54.2	3-4
WINS: #283 Apple Valley (CA) (44-21), #441 Poly (Long Beach, CA) (41-14), LOSSES: #4 Servite (Anaheim, CA) (44-7)

 

8	Norco (CA)   team preview   trend	Southern	Big VIII		3-0	0-0	3-0	58.3	39.7	5-3
WINS: #184 Vista Murrieta (Murrieta, CA) (42-26), #234 Santa Margarita (Rancho Santa Margarita, CA) (40-22), #320 Rancho Cucamonga (CA) (62-28), LOSSES: none

[Bodysurf]

2 minutes ago, On2whls said:

That would be cool if this was Texas, but it’s not.  There is some semblance of parity there.  

But parity is being created by having everybody get a trophy. 

[Ararar]

Alemany would be the highest seed in 1AA

[On2whls]

2 minutes ago, Adam_MD_Alum said:

Better let them compete for a title in D1 and save the Open for the big boys. 

This is especially poignant when it comes to teams like this years Norco.  This will be a once in a great while level team for them, but instead of getting rewarded for their efforts and play for a shot at a 1A title, they aren’t even guaranteed to win, they’ll be sent to slaughter.   

[On2whls]

11 minutes ago, Bodysurf said:

But parity is being created by having everybody get a trophy. 

Please don’t exaggerate.  Not everyone gets trophies.  But, if you look at a list of winners for for all the divisions over the past several years, there are numerous different winners.
For The SBG we’ve created a situation just like up North except we have two DLS’s not one. 

[Sammyswordsman]

35 minutes ago, On2whls said:

Sooooo, if there are clearly “tiers”, why not just set playoff brackets that emulate the tiers.  Should Tier 1 teams be allowed to play Tier 4 teams in playoffs?

in a perfect world the playoffs in all states would consist of teams on the same Tier, not enrollment.  The CIFSS is attempting to get as close as possible by waiting to assign playoff brackets until after the season.  For example, after week 10 the Top 8 ranked teams go to the Open bracket.  The next 16 ranked team are D-1, and so on.

 

[Adam_MD_Alum]

1 hour ago, On2whls said:

Please don’t exaggerate.  Not everyone gets trophies.  But, if you look at a list of winners for for all the divisions over the past several years, there are numerous different winners.
For The SBG we’ve created a situation just like up North except we have two DLS’s not one. 

You are totally right and I echo above sentiments about Norco and even MV a few years ago (and I’m a Monarch). 

Maybe Open Division should be a choice…

That said, you can’t talk smack or claim you’re the best in the state, (letalone nation) if your team chooses not to play in the Open (I.e., TX protocol w/ respect to MD/SJB, excluding Duncanvlle). 

[Bodysurf]

3 minutes ago, On2whls said:

Please don’t exaggerate.  Not everyone gets trophies.  But, if you look at a list of winners for for all the divisions over the past several years, there are numerous different winners.
For The SBG we’ve created a situation just like up North except we have two DLS’s not one. 

I was embellishing but I just checked and there are 10 CIF sections and each section has lots of divisions. So while everybody doesn’t get a trophy there are at least 75 teams that call themselves section champions. I don’t see Cali ever doing what Texas does, or what Indiana does for basketball, but I’d like to see fewer champions. 

[On2whls]

1 minute ago, Bodysurf said:

I don’t see Cali ever doing what Texas does, or what Indiana does for basketball, but I’d like to see fewer champions. 

Separate public and private for playoffs and consolidate to fewer divisions.  Less champions and higher percentage of competitive games.

[Sammyswordsman]

6 minutes ago, Bodysurf said:

I was embellishing but I just checked and there are 10 CIF sections and each section has lots of divisions. So while everybody doesn’t get a trophy there are at least 75 teams that call themselves section champions. I don’t see Cali ever doing what Texas does, or what Indiana does for basketball, but I’d like to see fewer champions. 

At least in So Calif, a team has to win a 16 team bracket (or the open) to be a champion.  Not like in NJ where guys running a 4 team bracket are on the shore picking up chicks with their State champ wife beaters on.

[Sammyswordsman]

1 minute ago, On2whls said:

Separate public and private for playoffs and consolidate to fewer divisions.  Less champions and higher percentage of competitive games.

I went so far as suggested that MD and SJB have a 2 team open bracket and the next 16 teams compete for D-1.  That would be a very exciting tourney.  Just like the old days

[Adam_MD_Alum]

5 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

At least in So Calif, a team has to win a 16 team bracket (or the open) to be a champion.  Not like in NJ where guys running a 4 team bracket are on the shore picking up chicks with their State champ wife beaters on.

So true. My girlfriend is from NJ and they call the state championship game ‘states’, as in, there’s so many state championship games the concept is plural. 

[Bodysurf]

5 minutes ago, On2whls said:

Separate public and private for playoffs and consolidate to fewer divisions.  Less champions and higher percentage of competitive games.

I don’t like separation of public and private but I do like consolidation and less champions. The last few years MD and Bosco are outliers but traditionally publics have always been on par with privates. I am a MD person but I want to see more competitive games.

[Ararar]

They should make the Open an actual 8 team state championship and let everyone else play for section and the lower SBG

[On2whls]

14 minutes ago, Bodysurf said:

I don’t like separation of public and private

What bothers you about that?  Seems to work well for other states.

[Adam_MD_Alum]

1 hour ago, Bodysurf said:

Yes they should. There are too many watered down playoff divisions. I don’t like the ‘everybody gets a trophy’ philosophy. I didn’t like it when the playoffs were reduced from 16 to 8 teams. I love how Texas does it with a 64 team bracket.

[respectfully disagree, continued…]

The other ugly truth about playoff expansion is CA HSFB attendance and economics. We have lower attendance here in CA  it’s on a different level in TX. 
 

Bigger playoff brackets means less trophies (a good thing in theory), but it also means less money for big schools that maybe can’t compete.

sad but true, playoff system also needs to be financially viable for schools and more championship games fills the chauffeurs (necessary for publics’). 

[Bodysurf]

11 minutes ago, On2whls said:

What bothers you about that?  Seems to work well for other states.

It doesn’t bother me, I just think publics are on par with privates. They always have been and arguably they are historically better. Think Poly, Cen10, Mission. going back there are programs like Banning and Carson in the city, Edison, Fontana, Los Alamitos. These programs were all at one time on top. 

[On2whls]

4 minutes ago, Adam_MD_Alum said:

The other ugly truth about playoff expansion is CA HSFB attendance and economics.

Unfortunately, that’s just the way it is much of the time.  Cen10 filled the Cathedral visitor bleachers when they met a couple years ago.  In the reciprocal game this year, very few fans on the visitors side.

At the honor bowl game on Saturday, very few Sierra Canyon fans.  
 

Those are just a couple examples, but the Cen10 visitors side is seldom filled to even 25% capacity, no matter the opponent (other than Norco or Santiago).  
 

If you’ve ever been to the honor bowl games, other than for Cathedral, there hisar aren’t that many fans.

[Cal 14]

6 hours ago, Bodysurf said:

That is correct about Calpreps. What you say could very well happen. But Cen10 has a strong strength of schedule so it would surprise me if a 2 loss Servite ended up higher than undefeated Cen10. But who the hell knows 😉

Centennial has 3 good games, 2 ok games, but the rest are not good at all.  You can’t compare these 10 games to what Servite will have.  Not even close.  Average strength of schedule will heavily favor the Friars.

In the Calpreps system, I’m guessing that only 4 games may even have a significant impact on the Huskie’s rating.  The Friars only have to stay reasonably close the SJB as they have for the last couple of meetings and that’s massive points.

[old_e]

@On2whlsTanner Mckee named Stanford starter for the USC game.

[CaliNorth]

On 9/5/2021 at 6:30 PM, On2whls said:

Separate public and private for playoffs and consolidate to fewer divisions.  Less champions and higher percentage of competitive games.

Then cen10 would never play the best nor get a chance to be the best, if the separated public and privates . I don't think Logan would like being excluded from the " Real " state title

[On2whls]

12 minutes ago, CaliNorth said:

Then cen10 would never play the best nor get a chance to be the best, if the separated public and privates . I don't think Logan would like being excluded from the " Real " state title

I’m pretty sure they would continue to schedule power privates OOL.  Heck, a good OOL schedule for them would be to just schedule the entire TL without having to be a member.   In a public bracket they would finally get matched up with MV and then Folsom, or Fresno Central from up north.  
At one time it was realistic that a public high school could compete for the “real” state title.   I think Logan knows the horses are out of the barn now and just hoping to be competitive is the best he can hope for.