Sammyswordsman Posted April 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, RedZone said: Couple or 3 things. 1-Tony Banks was NOT the greatest player in La history... 2-Neither was "Tommy Banks" 3-West Monroe won a piece of the MNC in 1998 (DBFN,TP) It's arguable. Some say he was the best ever at West Monroe. https://www.hannapub.com/ouachitacitizen/sports/legends-of-the-fall-banks-helped-put-west-monroe-on-the-map/article_5bad4314-f3a6-11ea-a143-c3ef2aba280d.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 2 hours ago, RedZone said: Joke! DLS claims a MNC in 2000......what a gift from USA Today. West Monroe won 2 polls again in 2000, not USA Today who was creaming over DLS at the time. Joke schedule....DLS beat 9-3 Mater Dei by 3 points, wins a MNC Games 101-113 2000 Results Spartans 30 Buchanan 24 Spartans 49 Marin Catholic 7 Spartans 31 Mater Dei 28 Spartans 42 St. Francis 7 Spartans 56 Bishop Amat 6 Spartans 55 Freedom 7 Spartans 64 Clayton Valley 21 Spartans 35 Ygnacio Valley 7 Spartans 37 Pittsburg 14 Spartans 41 Deer Valley 10 West Monroe beats 2 USA Today Top 25 teams in 2000 and they still gave DLS the MNC at USA Today......bullshit. Not even going to address the rest....might have 2 legit titles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said: It's arguable. No, it really isn't. Tommy Banks was NOT the best player in La history and probably not in West Monroe's history either. He was MAN playing a boy's games though at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcalnut Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, RedZone said: DLS claims a MNC in 2000......what a gift from USA Today. West Monroe won 2 polls again in 2000, not USA Today who was creaming over DLS at the time. Joke schedule....DLS beat 9-3 Mater Dei by 3 points, wins a MNC Games 101-113 2000 Results Spartans 30 Buchanan 24 Spartans 49 Marin Catholic 7 Spartans 31 Mater Dei 28 Spartans 42 St. Francis 7 Spartans 56 Bishop Amat 6 Spartans 55 Freedom 7 Spartans 64 Clayton Valley 21 Spartans 35 Ygnacio Valley 7 Spartans 37 Pittsburg 14 Spartans 41 Deer Valley 10 West Monroe beats 2 USA Today Top 25 teams in 2000 and they still gave DLS the MNC at USA Today......bullshit. Not even going to address the rest....might have to 2 legit titles. If you say so, you the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, RedZone said: DLS claims a MNC in 2000......what a gift from USA Today. West Monroe won 2 polls again in 2000, not USA Today who was creaming over DLS at the time. Joke schedule....DLS beat 9-3 Mater Dei by 3 points, wins a MNC Games 101-113 2000 Results Spartans 30 Buchanan 24 Spartans 49 Marin Catholic 7 Spartans 31 Mater Dei 28 Spartans 42 St. Francis 7 Spartans 56 Bishop Amat 6 Spartans 55 Freedom 7 Spartans 64 Clayton Valley 21 Spartans 35 Ygnacio Valley 7 Spartans 37 Pittsburg 14 Spartans 41 Deer Valley 10 West Monroe beats 2 USA Today Top 25 teams in 2000 and they still gave DLS the MNC at USA Today......bullshit. Not even going to address the rest....might have to 2 legit titles. This was really baffling....and still is 20 years later. You have a national poll where a team goes 15-0 beats 2 of your teams ranked in your poll including a Texas 5A State Champion and they reward DLS the MNC because they beat a 3 loss Mater Dei squad by 3 points and they beat NO ONE in the poll. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mag44 Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 23 hours ago, Mag44 said: Teams without MNC have to go, DLS had the weakest in State schedule and got beaten up but DBP and STA, overall SOS goes to DBP, who also beat a very good Prattville team in Alabama, in front of a very hostile bunch and MD.... Sammy, you have about 4 pages of benign rhetoric by Finch and RZ, hopefully you can get through this foolish attempt, by two bloviators to just deflect from the few teams that are in question... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 8 hours ago, Atticus Finch said: Two things stick out to me. 1) I'm unable to shake how bad that Smithson Valley team was that Carroll played in 2004 (and barely beat). 2) That both teams played very similar DFW-heavy schedules. We're told that their schedules were super tough but you'd be hard-pressed to find much of a challenge beyond an occasional Trinity or Katy. I agree that the two played similar DFW schedules. But, DFW has always been one of the top couple of metro areas for H.S. football in the country. What they lack in talent per capita compared to Dade/Broward, they make up for with a far greater number of high quality programs (meaning quality coaching, player development maximization, fan support) and a much greater probability of the top teams facing each other in the playoffs. I don't think there's anywhere else in the country where going undefeated is more difficult. Georgia, Houston and Dade probably vie for number two in this category, depending on how teams are classified in a given year. Perhaps the 2004 team was the weakest of the three. But, they went undefeated and won state titles in the large class all three seasons. Allen can't say that. And we're evaluating the quality of the achievements of the team as a whole, not just how good the best player was. Three consecutive unbeaten, state title teams in the upper classifications of Texas or Florida are the things of legend. If you're making a list of best three year runs, teams with those accomplishments should be almost impossible to keep off the top of the list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, badrouter said: What they lack in talent per capita compared to Dade/Broward, they make up for with a far greater number of high quality programs (meaning quality coaching, player development maximization, fan support) and a much greater probability of the top teams facing each other in the playoffs. I don't think there's anywhere else in the country where going undefeated is more difficult. This is demonstrably false. First, they split the class into two divisions for the playoffs. So Katy, etc. would routinely be in the opposite bracket of the other powerhouses. Hence, they rarely ever met. Also, Texas has so many schools in 6A (245) that they have these huge districts with 7, 8 or 9 teams which means that there are few big non-district games. Since district games are overwhelmingly weaker opponents there are more 10-0 teams going into the playoffs than any other state. With 128 teams making the playoffs (two 64-team brackets) there are tons of slapdicks to beat up on many of which are undefeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaShells21 Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, badrouter said: I agree that the two played similar DFW schedules. But, DFW has always been one of the top couple of metro areas for H.S. football in the country. What they lack in talent per capita compared to Dade/Broward, they make up for with a far greater number of high quality programs (meaning quality coaching, player development maximization, fan support) and a much greater probability of the top teams facing each other in the playoffs. I don't think there's anywhere else in the country where going undefeated is more difficult. Georgia, Houston and Dade probably vie for number two in this category, depending on how teams are classified in a given year. Perhaps the 2004 team was the weakest of the three. But, they went undefeated and won state titles in the large class all three seasons. Allen can't say that. And we're evaluating the quality of the achievements of the team as a whole, not just how good the best player was. Three consecutive unbeaten, state title teams in the upper classifications of Texas or Florida are the things of legend. If you're making a list of best three year runs, teams with those accomplishments should be almost impossible to keep off the top of the list. Allen won state all 3 years Kyler was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 7 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said: Lets Flush out the Tier 2 candidates. Some excellent teams https://www.legendssf.com/blogs/legends-blog/top-10-high-school-teams-of-all-time Any of these lists are bound to be flawed. Just not enough information available to compare teams from different eras and different regions of the country. One way to see how this one is flawed is its use of 2006 Lakeland, which nobody thought was as good as the 2005 team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 5 hours ago, RedZone said: DLS claims a MNC in 2000......what a gift from USA Today. West Monroe won 2 polls again in 2000, not USA Today who was creaming over DLS at the time. Joke schedule....DLS beat 9-3 Mater Dei by 3 points, wins a MNC Games 101-113 2000 Results Spartans 30 Buchanan 24 Spartans 49 Marin Catholic 7 Spartans 31 Mater Dei 28 Spartans 42 St. Francis 7 Spartans 56 Bishop Amat 6 Spartans 55 Freedom 7 Spartans 64 Clayton Valley 21 Spartans 35 Ygnacio Valley 7 Spartans 37 Pittsburg 14 Spartans 41 Deer Valley 10 West Monroe beats 2 USA Today Top 25 teams in 2000 and they still gave DLS the MNC at USA Today......bullshit. Not even going to address the rest....might have 2 legit titles. Polls should have extremely limited value in this list. Though I concede the 2000 DLS schedule seen here was quite lacking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said: This is demonstrably false. First, they split the class into two divisions for the playoffs. So Katy, etc. would routinely be in the opposite bracket of the other powerhouses. Hence, they rarely ever met. Also, Texas has so many schools in 6A (245) that they have these huge districts with 7, 8 or 9 teams which means that there are few big non-district games. Since district games are overwhelmingly weaker opponents there are more 10-0 teams going into the playoffs than any other state. With 128 teams making the playoffs (two 64-team brackets) there are tons of slapdicks to beat up on many of which are undefeated. Yes, I get all of that. But, DFW schools pretty much have to play all of the other DFW powers eventually. They're generally only going to be able to avoid one power from the southern part of the state (and SLC beat Andy Dalton and Katy in 2005). It does seem to be easier to get to 10-0, but not so much to get to 16-0. And that 16th game isn't to be overlooked. An extra game has to add weight to the resume. The first round games in Florida are a joke, too. The teams, like DBP and DLS, that finished unbeaten after only ~12 games should get docked for so few games. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddyr2 Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 On 4/10/2021 at 3:50 PM, Las Vegas_JC said: Gorman Hands down the best resume. 2014 15-0 10-4 Brophy Prep (AZ) D1 Semifinalist Gorman won 44-0 13-2 Bingham (UT) 5A State Champs Gorman won 23-20 in OT 12-3 Centennial (CA) CIF Open Finalist Gorman won 43-42 at CA 12-2 SJB (CA) Pac 5 Finalist Gorman won 34-31 2015 15-0 11-2 Chandler (AZ) D1 Semifinalist Gorman won 35-14 12-2 Bingham (UT) 5A Semifinalist Gorman won 38-20 at UT 11-2 Bellevue (WA) 3A Finalist Gorman won 35-7 at WA 9-3 Don Bosco Prep (NJ) Non Public group 4 Champions Gorman won 30-16 2016 15-0 11-3 Cedar Hill (TX) 6A D2 Region 1 Finalist Gorman won 44-14 at TX 12-1 Cocoa (FL) 4A Champions Gorman won 46-10 13-2 SJB (CA) CIF Open Division Champions Gorman won 35-20 at CA 11-2 Kahuku (HI) Open Division Finalist Gorman won 35-7 14-2 STA (FL) 7A Champions Gorman won 25-24 in OT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 27 minutes ago, badrouter said: teams like DBP and DLS, that finished unbeaten after only ~12 games should get docked for so few games. DLS "playoffs" during their run mentioned here. 2000 NCS 4A Playoffs Spartans 68 San Ramon Valley 0 Spartans 34 Castro Valley 10 Spartans 49 San Leandro 13 2001 NCS 4A Playoffs Spartans 54 Washington 15 Spartans 45 James Logan 0 Spartans 48 San Leandro 13 2002 NCS 4A Playoffs Spartans 62 Antioch 13 Spartans 47 Hayward 7 Spartans 42 San Leandro 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 41 minutes ago, badrouter said: Polls should have extremely limited value in this list. Though I concede the 2000 DLS schedule seen here was quite lacking. West Monroe was robbed!....no two ways about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted April 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, RedZone said: DLS "playoffs" during their run mentioned here. 2000 NCS 4A Playoffs Spartans 68 San Ramon Valley 0 Spartans 34 Castro Valley 10 Spartans 49 San Leandro 13 2001 NCS 4A Playoffs Spartans 54 Washington 15 Spartans 45 James Logan 0 Spartans 48 San Leandro 13 2002 NCS 4A Playoffs Spartans 62 Antioch 13 Spartans 47 Hayward 7 Spartans 42 San Leandro 14 Everyone knows Nor Cal is weak. However So Cal is not and DLS dominated the best teams from So Cal plus OOS powers during the 1999-2002 period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 Just now, Sammyswordsman said: Everyone knows Nor Cal is weak. However So Cal is not and DLS dominated the best teams from So Cal plus OOS powers during the 1999-2002 period That just isn't true as much as you want it to be.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted April 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 minute ago, RedZone said: That just isn't true as much as you want it to be.. What do you mean by that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Sammyswordsman said: What do you mean by that? For one thing the two years DLS beat Mater Dei during their "run" mentioned here Mater Dei was 9-3 and 8-5......and DLS only played 1 OOS team during that run Hawaii St Louis who they beat 31-21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, RedZone said: DLS "playoffs" during their run mentioned here. 2000 NCS 4A Playoffs Spartans 68 San Ramon Valley 0 Spartans 34 Castro Valley 10 Spartans 49 San Leandro 13 2001 NCS 4A Playoffs Spartans 54 Washington 15 Spartans 45 James Logan 0 Spartans 48 San Leandro 13 2002 NCS 4A Playoffs Spartans 62 Antioch 13 Spartans 47 Hayward 7 Spartans 42 San Leandro 14 Very, very lacking. No doubt. Perhaps it is the larger streak worthy of much recognition (much already received), but no three-year run was worthy of Tier 1 placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said: Everyone knows Nor Cal is weak. However So Cal is not and DLS dominated the best teams from So Cal plus OOS powers during the 1999-2002 period They had three (one per season) notable wins in this stretch. So, they never had a gauntlet to face. They never had to play several elite SoCal teams in one season. They may have been capable of beating any one of those teams, but not capable of beating two or three in consecutive weeks as you see in a longer playoff run in places like Georgia, Florida or Texas. None of their teams were very deep, right down to playing kids both ways. And their game plans were fairly simple. You can hide some weaknesses in a one-off game. But, if you hid them in a 3rd round game, the opponent in round 4, 5 or 6 is going to notice and attack it. DLS never faced such a set of circumstances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, badrouter said: Very, very lacking. No doubt. Perhaps it is the larger streak worthy of much recognition (much already received), but no three-year run was worthy of Tier 1 placement. DLS won the MNC at USA Today in 2000, 2001 and 2002. The "run" mentioned here as Tier 1. All they did was beat Poly 2 years......that's it. Mater Dei wasn't anything back then...lost a ton of games. That's just the way it was back then....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted April 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, RedZone said: For one thing the two years DLS beat Mater Dei during their "run" mentioned here Mater Dei was 9-3 and 8-5......and DLS only played 1 OOS team during that run Hawaii St Louis who they beat 31-21. 2001 DLS easily handled #1 National Poly in Long Beach. It wasn’t close. 2000 DLS was up on Leinarts MD team 21-7 in Anaheim 2002 DLS boat raced a very good St. Louis team in Hawaii All three year they ran the table. Tough to find any team with better Results. If you find five , let us know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted April 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, badrouter said: They had three (one per season) notable wins in this stretch. So, they never had a gauntlet to face. They never had to play several elite SoCal teams in one season. They may have been capable of beating any one of those teams, but not capable of beating two or three in consecutive weeks as you see in a longer playoff run in places like Georgia, Florida or Texas. None of their teams were very deep, right down to playing kids both ways. And their game plans were fairly simple. You can hide some weaknesses in a one-off game. But, if you hid them in a 3rd round game, the opponent in round 4, 5 or 6 is going to notice and attack it. DLS never faced such a set of circumstances. Your first few sentences were here n point. But I saw DLS on play in those years and they were capable of running a gauntlet of playoff caliber teams. DLS defense was outstanding during those years. Better than the offense in my opinion. Being simple (veer) doesn’t mean a team could stop them regularly. They executed that well There is no gauntlet during those years that they could not have run. If you think there was, then tel us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said: 2001 DLS easily handled #1 National Poly in Long Beach. It wasn’t close. 2000 DLS was up on Leinarts MD team 21-7 in Anaheim 2002 DLS boat raced a very good St. Louis team in Hawaii All three year they ran the table. Tough to find any team with better Results. If you find five , let us know Just stop, man.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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