BOMBSHELL: Mater Dei Hazing Scandal

[FreeBird]

24 minutes ago, RedZone said:

 

This might take the cake for the worst reporting regarding this saga so far. I paid the $42 to download all the relevant pleadings and read them myself.

Lol where the hell you get $42

[res ipsa loquitur]

3 hours ago, FreeBird said:

Lol where the hell you get $42

I live in a great state with a peerless economy, and I’m a senior associate at a large law firm. For reference, below is the current market rate base pay (i.e., not including bonuses) for big law associates.

Edited February 22, 2022 by res ipsa loquitur
Removed ad hoc attacks on

[res ipsa loquitur]

3 hours ago, RedZone said:

Read ALL this again if you can and get back with RedZone!

Brevity is indeed the soul of wit; had I had more time, I would have edited my main post down to something shorter. That said, do you have a substantive response to what I wrote—something other than claiming I’m “emotional”?

[RedZone]

1 hour ago, res ipsa loquitur said:

That said, do you have a substantive response to what I wrote—something other than claiming I’m “emotional”?

Not a thing.

I just know "emotional and defensive" when I read it.

You even called Sondheimer an ignorant fool in your very first paragraph.

Should I defend Sondheimer or should I defend mater dei?

 

You don't have to answer....

Cya.

 

 

 

 

[res ipsa loquitur]

30 minutes ago, RedZone said:

Not a thing.

I just know "emotional and defensive" when I read it.

You ever called Sondheimer an ignorant fool in your very first paragraph.

Should I defend Sondheimer or should I defend mater dei?

 

You don't have to answer....

Cya.

 

 

 

 

Sondheimer’s reporting regarding this issue is ignorant and foolish—he misrepresented basic facts and released three hyperbolic tweets in quick succession, including one calling on Mater Dei parents to rise up because Mater Dei is trying to prevent the former AD from testifying in this case (not true).

Re MD, you claim my post was defensive, yet, I called their attorneys amateurish. That said, to the extent calling out egregiously bad reporting in my area expertise is defensive, so be it. (This latest report was the equivalent of someone who has never watched football opining on the violence of the sport and claiming it literally involves “shotguns” and “long bombs.”)

P.S. You must be a treat to be married to or to have as a father. You address me directly but don’t want a response (saying, “You don’ have to answer”). While you can’t help but repeatedly try to engage with/poke at me, even when I didn’t respond to you for days, you also can’t come up with a single substantive retort—instead hiding behind repeatedly calling my post “emotional.” (RedZone logic: long post that others found informative explaining a complicated/misunderstood topic=emotional; you repeatedly attacking me on here over the course of a week=/=emotional.) And that all is not to mention your apparently well document pathological lying and racism. I pity you. 

[RedZone]

6 minutes ago, res ipsa loquitur said:

Sondheimer’s reporting regarding this issue is ignorant and foolish

mater dei vs Sondheimer

Keep us all posted, sport!

Thanks.

[res ipsa loquitur]

3 minutes ago, RedZone said:

mater dei vs Sondheimer

Keep us all posted, sport!

Thanks.

Will do

[Ararar]

1 hour ago, RedZone said:

mater dei vs Sondheimer

Keep us all posted, sport!

Thanks.

Everyone who follows HS in so cal knows that sondheimer severely dislikes MD.It’s no secret and he doesn’t hide it

[res ipsa loquitur]

26 minutes ago, Ararar said:

Everyone who follows HS in so cal knows that sondheimer severely dislikes MD.It’s no secret and he doesn’t hide it

To be fair, Sondheimer used to be a bit more balanced (though obviously biased to his local teams, eg, Loyola). During MD’s 90s run, he was the primary reporter for many MD games—I remember him often holding up the pride drill to talk Rollo’s ear off post-game. And he continues to do some decent reporting on other topics.

 

The venom towards MD did not really start to come out until JT Daniels told him, “No, I’m not reclassifying,” and Sondheimer boasted about having the scoop—reporting that rumors of JT possibly reclassifying were wrong. Concurrently, MD and the Daniels family had granted Fryer (of MD’s local paper) an exclusive interview with JT wherein JT broke the news that he was indeed reclassifying. Fryer’s big article came out not long after Sondheimer claimed to have the scoop, which apparently embarrassed/enraged Sondheimer. I’m sure it also didn’t help that JT was specifically reclassifying to take the starting job at SC, who Sondheimer also hates (being a diehard UCLA supporter).

Now, Sondheimer is salivating over what he sees as a legitimate/not personal-to-him reason to bring down the MD coaches/administration that caused him such embarrassment 4+ years ago. I don’t think he is purposely misleading people re the lawsuit (unlike Reid, who is very anti-Catholic church), but, as soon as he even hears something that is anti-MD, he puts the full weight of his platform behind it without scrutinizing the veracity or accuracy of what he posts.   

[Ararar]

1 hour ago, res ipsa loquitur said:

To be fair, Sondheimer used to be a bit more balanced (though obviously biased to his local teams, eg, Loyola). During MD’s 90s run, he was the primary reporter for many MD games—I remember him often holding up the pride drill to talk Rollo’s ear off post-game. And he continues to do some decent reporting on other topics.

 

The venom towards MD did not really start to come out until JT Daniels told him, “No, I’m not reclassifying,” and Sondheimer boasted about having the scoop—reporting that rumors of JT possibly reclassifying were wrong. Concurrently, MD and the Daniels family had granted Fryer (of MD’s local paper) an exclusive interview with JT wherein JT broke the news that he was indeed reclassifying. Fryer’s big article came out not long after Sondheimer claimed to have the scoop, which apparently embarrassed/enraged Sondheimer. I’m sure it also didn’t help that JT was specifically reclassifying to take the starting job at SC, who Sondheimer also hates (being a diehard UCLA supporter).

Now, Sondheimer is salivating over what he sees as a legitimate/not personal-to-him reason to bring down the MD coaches/administration that caused him such embarrassment 4+ years ago. I don’t think he is purposely misleading people re the lawsuit (unlike Reid, who is very anti-Catholic church), but, as soon as he even hears something that is anti-MD, he puts the full weight of his platform behind it without scrutinizing the veracity or accuracy of what he posts.   

I started noticing his bias against MD after the SS folded up on the law suit with MD.It changed the SS stance on transferring and thus the more lenient rules.

[RedZone]

4 hours ago, Ararar said:

I started noticing his bias

....everyone is bias.

 More importantly. Why is mater dei involved in so many lawsuits?

 

[Ararar]

5 hours ago, RedZone said:

....everyone is bias.

 More importantly. Why is mater dei involved in so many lawsuits?

 

The extent of bias is what’s relevant for this discussion 

[RedZone]

6 minutes ago, Ararar said:

The extent of bias is what’s relevant for this discussion 

The extent of everyone's bias is what's relevant to ANY discussion....

[Bodysurf]

5 hours ago, RedZone said:

....everyone is bias.

 More importantly. Why is mater dei involved in so many lawsuits?

 

Technically speaking, the previous lawsuits that keep coming up here were the Diocese Of Orange versus the CIF. However obviously, MD is the flagbearer for the Diocese.

[RedZone]

8 minutes ago, Bodysurf said:

Technically speaking, the previous lawsuits that keep coming up here were the Diocese Of Orange versus the CIF. However obviously, MD is the flagbearer for the Diocese.

That's interesting.

[Ararar]

2 hours ago, RedZone said:

The extent of everyone's bias is what's relevant to ANY discussion....

You mean like when you call another poster the N word 

[RedZone]

35 minutes ago, Ararar said:

You mean like when you call another poster the N word 

Exactly correct!

[res ipsa loquitur]

BREAKING: MD and the Diocese have filed their reply brief--responding the the claims in plaintiff's opposition brief that led to the most recent breathless (and false) reporting about MD supposedly trying to block their former AD from testifying in this case. In short, I was right.

Here are the highlights:

• Plaintiff has dropped his original counsel. Plaintiff and his parents are opting to solely rely on their blueblood law firm--Greenberg Gross--dropping the smaller firm that worked with the OC Register and LA Times to have breaking stories/interviews come out concurrently with the filing of the lawsuit.

 

• MD and the Diocese have started to go on the offensive in one way--noting that one of Greenberg Gross's lead attorneys for this case, Brian Williams, has a conflict of interest (previously having represented the Diocese in various unrelated cases over the course of 18 years) but failed to seek a waiver, as required under the professional rules of conduct. This is a clear violation, however, MD and the Diocese (for now) have merely used it for a pot shot in their reply brief. They have not (at least yet) moved to disqualify counsel. To clarify, as the cases that Mr. Williams previously worked on were unrelated to the instant action, Greenberg Gross could likely still represent plaintiff. However, to do so properly, they would likely have to either (1) take Brian Williams off the case and separate him with a "Chinese wall" or (2) obtain a waiver from the Diocese. I do not think that MD or the Diocese actually want Greenberg Gross off the case, hence them not moving to disqualify. Rather, they likely just want to turn the judge against Greenberg Gross in hopes that it pays dividends later, e.g., leading the court to not give Greenberg Gross leeway on small mistakes or inevitable requests for extensions.

 

• MD and the Diocese were in no way attempting to prevent the former AD's deposition and were merely forced to react to gamesmanship by Greenberg Gross. MD and the Diocese sought to depose plaintiff and his parents in January. Plaintiff's counsel claimed that everyone was unavailable (including counsel) and that the depositions would have to be rescheduled. Soon after MD and the Diocese agreed to work on rescheduling those depositions, Plaintiff noticed the deposition of the former AD for January 28th--contrary to counsel's previous claim of unavailability that prevented Plaintiff's and his parents' depositions. MD/the Diocese served objections and both sides discussed rescheduling all depositions. On January 27th, the former AD changed her mind about being represented by the same counsel as MD/the Diocese and called plaintiff's counsel to ask for link to the zoom deposition. Both sides' lawyers then called the former AD to confirm that she does not want a lawyer. Counsel for MD/the Diocese then reiterated that it was unavailable for the deposition as noticed for January 28th, noting that counsel was about to board a cross country flight. Seizing that opportunity, plaintiff's counsel stated that it would proceed with the deposition of the former AD regardless of whether MD/the Diocese could attend. Thus, MD/the Diocese's counsel prepared the motion to quash from the plane to force a court delay of the former AD's deposition.

 

• The former AD had orally agreed to be represented by MD on January 10th. There was no written agreement. Notably, according to an affidavit from counsel for MD/the Diocese, on January 27th, the former AD said she was confused after her conversation with plaintiff's counsel and actually still wanted MD/the Diocese's lawyers to represent her. Later that day, however, she changed her mind and ultimately decided to go without any counsel for now. This suggests two things (1) MD/the Diocese's counsel screwed up in an amateurish way by not having a written agreement re representation and (2) the former AD is likely still on at least decent terms with MD/the Diocese as she was not hostile to having their lawyers represent her.

 

• This brief is a better effort. That makes sense as the motion to quash was apparently slapped together on a cross country flight. Though, I still caught some typos, and the substantive legal arguments could have been better fleshed out.

 

• The judge will likely post a tentative decision on Friday afternoon. The hearing is scheduled for Monday. The legal ruling is pretty unimportant at this point. It will be far more interesting to watch out for how the judge reacts to MD/the Diocese's handling of its representation of the former AD (though yesterday's filing makes that less likely to be an issue); the latest accusation that one of plaintiff's attorneys did not properly handle his conflict of interest under the rules of professional conduct; the apparent gamesmanship by plaintiff's counsel; and, possibly, plaintiff's efforts to litigate this case in the press.

[res ipsa loquitur]

BREAKING: MD tentatively wins its motion.

99.9% chance this will become the final order after Monday's hearing. Plaintiff must issue a new, proper subpoena on the former AD. Her deposition shall take place some time before April 6th. Both sides "admonished," but court is clearly more annoyed with plaintiff--rightly so. 

Reporting to this point proven as a lie. Court notes in all caps, bolded letters: "NOBODY CONTENDS THE DEPOSITION SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN."

[res ipsa loquitur]

Apologies to everyone who does not appreciate my continued, admittedly verbose posts. 

Today was the hearing on MD's motion to quash. As I had my own conflicting hearing today, I have no idea what ultimately happened. A final notice of ruling (almost assuredly adopting the tentative in MD's favor) will likely be posted to the docket some time this week.

Beyond the motion to quash, there are a few other developments.

• Contrary to my earlier assumption, Mater Dei will move to disqualify plaintiff's lead counsel, who previously represented the diocese in various cases over the past two decades but never asked for a waiver from the diocese to be counsel in this case. The motion has not yet been filed.
• Mater Dei is slow playing this case. On Friday, they moved ex parte to stay (i.e., pause) the entire case until the motion to disqualify counsel could be heard. The court summarily denied this motion, presumably as ex partes generally require exigent circumstances. Here, while plaintiff's lead counsel likely has a conflict that requires a waiver from the diocese, there's no immediate prejudice to the diocese (let alone MD) if the case proceeds as usual for the next couple months with him involved. His past cases had nothing to do with MD, let alone this case. Thus, there is no reason to think he has confidential, privilleged info that he could improperly use in this case. While these motions may be a useful delaying tactic for MD and the Diocese--causing plaintiff to rack up more fees and making the case just take longer--I won't be surprised if, after the motion is filed, Reid, Sondheimer, et al. start writing about how disgusting it is that MD/Diocese are apparently scared of an attorney that used to represent the Diocese. Seems like a bad PR move to me.
• MD filed a boilerplate answer, rather than a demurrer. Thus, there will be no real action regarding the merits of this case until a motion for summary judgment ("MSJ") is filed. A future MSJ will be our first look into MD's position re this case and our first opportunity (barring leaks to the press) to see what has come out in discovery (i.e., through depositions and the exchange of documents). At the earliest, this may overlap with football season, but it could come well after the fall season is finished.

Given the above, I'll give you all a break from my posts for a long while.

It will be interesting to see how MD handles these allegations hanging over it like a proverbial Sword of Damocles for a full season, as opposed to for a few playoff games. As Fryer's interview of the new MD president included a full throated endorsement of the football program, with the new president standing by the DA's investigation/finding of no hazing, I predict a Kobe c. 2003 situation. To paraphrase Dave Chappelle, if MD continues to play well with no new issues popping up, most will generally move on. But, if MD loses to a team not named Bosco for the first time in seven years, the whole of California will be like, "That *****'s guilty!"

 

[Slotback Right]

Former Mater Dei AD says school
mishandled hazing case

Amanda Waters in a sworn deposition also alleges the school's vice principal ordered her not to talk about the altercation.

The Mater Dei HS official overseeing the school's nationally renowned football program ordered Mater Dei's athletic director not to discuss or ask questions about an alleged February 2021 hazing incident that left a player with serious head injuries.

Former Mater Dei athletic director Amanda Waters, in a sworn deposition last month, said the assistant principal Geri Campeau was "very angry" the morning after the altercation that Waters had asked Monarch head football coach Bruce Rollinson about the incident, and that she was never to talk about the event or the alleged victim "ever again anymore."

...“Everything from the initial (moment) when (the injured player) walked out of the locker room, to the silence after, was handled wrong, in my opinion“ Waters said.

Waters said Rollinson made statements in a conversation with her the morning after the altercation, that seemed to contradict statements the coach later made to a Santa Ana Police Department investigator.

Waters also said Campeau instructed a Mater Dei athletic trainer not to contact the alleged victim's parents or EMTs in the minutes immediately following the incident. Waters in the deposition, said Rollinson rebuffed 10 requests to monitor the locker room. 

"I don't have time to do that (expletive)"  Waters recalled Rollinson saying.

...Rollinson, Mater Dei, and the Diocese did not immediately respond to requests for comment. 

Waters said she saw the alleged victim shortly after the Feb. 4, 2021 incident.

"I was standing in the quad when he walked out of the locker room."Waters said referring to the alleged victim. "He walked down the steps and he had two gashes over his eyes. At the time we had the athletic trainer's station set up to my left, which is where Kevin Anderson, who was the trainer on duty, was."

Waters said she encountered Campeau in the quad. Waters suggested to Campeau, the school call an "ambulance,"

"He's got a clear head injury as far as gashes over his head. Can we talk to Kevin and see what Kevin says?, Waters said she asked Campeau.

"Campeau told me to stop talking about it and get to my office."

"So Campeau walked over to Kevin, said something to Kevin that I could not hear. My assumption was 'Leave him alone' because he stopped treating him, and then I went to my office after we had words in the quad about it.”


The following day, Waters in the deposition said, she asked Anderson why he didn't call the player's parents or emergency personnel. "He told me that Geri told him not to call 911," Waters said.

Campeau recently left Mater Dei to take a job at Apple.

...The next morning Waters, concerned about the injured player, went to Rollinson's office.

..."Rollinson", Waters said, "became 'agitated' that I asked, and was inquiring. And at that point I left his office and then that's when Geri came to tell me not to talk about it anymore.

"He didn't like to be challenged, and so when he says he's done talking about it, he will make it very clear he's done talking about it."

Ten minutes later Campeau entered Water's office. Waters said she could tell Campeau was angry as she approached the office.

"And then she got there, shut the door and started yelling at me about how I needed to stop asking questions, this is not----she is over football and that I needed to not go down and talk to Bruce about this any more, ever again," Waters said.

Campeau, Waters recalled, was "very heated. She told me that I am not to talk about this young man ever at all anymore. They were handling it on their own end, and to not touch it."

...Waters took over as Mater Dei's AD in July 2020, only to be informed by Campeau weeks into her new job, that she was not in charged of the football program. 

"Because I had to get used to Mater Dei, Mater Dei didn't have to get used to me," Waters recalled Campeau saying.

"That I had to drink the Kool Aid first."

https://www.ocregister.com/2022/04/26/former-mater-dei-ad-says-school-mishandled-hazing-case/

[RedZone]

4 hours ago, Slotback Right said:

Former Mater Dei AD says school
mishandled hazing case

Amanda Waters in a sworn deposition also alleges the school's vice principal ordered her not to talk about the altercation.

The Mater Dei HS official overseeing the school's nationally renowned football program ordered Mater Dei's athletic director not to discuss or ask questions about an alleged February 2021 hazing incident that left a player with serious head injuries.

Former Mater Dei athletic director Amanda Waters, in a sworn deposition last month, said the assistant principal Geri Campeau was "very angry" the morning after the altercation that Waters had asked Monarch head football coach Bruce Rollinson about the incident, and that she was never to talk about the event or the alleged victim "ever again anymore."

...“Everything from the initial (moment) when (the injured player) walked out of the locker room, to the silence after, was handled wrong, in my opinion“ Waters said.

Waters said Rollinson made statements in a conversation with her the morning after the altercation, that seemed to contradict statements the coach later made to a Santa Ana Police Department investigator.

Waters also said Campeau instructed a Mater Dei athletic trainer not to contact the alleged victim's parents or EMTs in the minutes immediately following the incident. Waters in the deposition, said Rollinson rebuffed 10 requests to monitor the locker room. 

"I don't have time to do that (expletive)"  Waters recalled Rollinson saying.

...Rollinson, Mater Dei, and the Diocese did not immediately respond to requests for comment. 

Waters said she saw the alleged victim shortly after the Feb. 4, 2021 incident.

"I was standing in the quad when he walked out of the locker room."Waters said referring to the alleged victim. "He walked down the steps and he had two gashes over his eyes. At the time we had the athletic trainer's station set up to my left, which is where Kevin Anderson, who was the trainer on duty, was."

Waters said she encountered Campeau in the quad. Waters suggested to Campeau, the school call an "ambulance,"

"He's got a clear head injury as far as gashes over his head. Can we talk to Kevin and see what Kevin says?, Waters said she asked Campeau.

"Campeau told me to stop talking about it and get to my office."

"So Campeau walked over to Kevin, said something to Kevin that I could not hear. My assumption was 'Leave him alone' because he stopped treating him, and then I went to my office after we had words in the quad about it.”


The following day, Waters in the deposition said, she asked Anderson why he didn't call the player's parents or emergency personnel. "He told me that Geri told him not to call 911," Waters said.

Campeau recently left Mater Dei to take a job at Apple.

...The next morning Waters, concerned about the injured player, went to Rollinson's office.

..."Rollinson", Waters said, "became 'agitated' that I asked, and was inquiring. And at that point I left his office and then that's when Geri came to tell me not to talk about it anymore.

"He didn't like to be challenged, and so when he says he's done talking about it, he will make it very clear he's done talking about it."

Ten minutes later Campeau entered Water's office. Waters said she could tell Campeau was angry as she approached the office.

"And then she got there, shut the door and started yelling at me about how I needed to stop asking questions, this is not----she is over football and that I needed to not go down and talk to Bruce about this any more, ever again," Waters said.

Campeau, Waters recalled, was "very heated. She told me that I am not to talk about this young man ever at all anymore. They were handling it on their own end, and to not touch it."

...Waters took over as Mater Dei's AD in July 2020, only to be informed by Campeau weeks into her new job, that she was not in charged of the football program. 

"Because I had to get used to Mater Dei, Mater Dei didn't have to get used to me," Waters recalled Campeau saying.

"That I had to drink the Kool Aid first."

https://www.ocregister.com/2022/04/26/former-mater-dei-ad-says-school-mishandled-hazing-case/

Such a sad school......

[THEOC89]

5 hours ago, Slotback Right said:

Former Mater Dei AD says school
mishandled hazing case

Amanda Waters in a sworn deposition also alleges the school's vice principal ordered her not to talk about the altercation.

The Mater Dei HS official overseeing the school's nationally renowned football program ordered Mater Dei's athletic director not to discuss or ask questions about an alleged February 2021 hazing incident that left a player with serious head injuries.

Former Mater Dei athletic director Amanda Waters, in a sworn deposition last month, said the assistant principal Geri Campeau was "very angry" the morning after the altercation that Waters had asked Monarch head football coach Bruce Rollinson about the incident, and that she was never to talk about the event or the alleged victim "ever again anymore."

...“Everything from the initial (moment) when (the injured player) walked out of the locker room, to the silence after, was handled wrong, in my opinion“ Waters said.

Waters said Rollinson made statements in a conversation with her the morning after the altercation, that seemed to contradict statements the coach later made to a Santa Ana Police Department investigator.

Waters also said Campeau instructed a Mater Dei athletic trainer not to contact the alleged victim's parents or EMTs in the minutes immediately following the incident. Waters in the deposition, said Rollinson rebuffed 10 requests to monitor the locker room. 

"I don't have time to do that (expletive)"  Waters recalled Rollinson saying.

...Rollinson, Mater Dei, and the Diocese did not immediately respond to requests for comment. 

Waters said she saw the alleged victim shortly after the Feb. 4, 2021 incident.

"I was standing in the quad when he walked out of the locker room."Waters said referring to the alleged victim. "He walked down the steps and he had two gashes over his eyes. At the time we had the athletic trainer's station set up to my left, which is where Kevin Anderson, who was the trainer on duty, was."

Waters said she encountered Campeau in the quad. Waters suggested to Campeau, the school call an "ambulance,"

"He's got a clear head injury as far as gashes over his head. Can we talk to Kevin and see what Kevin says?, Waters said she asked Campeau.

"Campeau told me to stop talking about it and get to my office."

"So Campeau walked over to Kevin, said something to Kevin that I could not hear. My assumption was 'Leave him alone' because he stopped treating him, and then I went to my office after we had words in the quad about it.”


The following day, Waters in the deposition said, she asked Anderson why he didn't call the player's parents or emergency personnel. "He told me that Geri told him not to call 911," Waters said.

Campeau recently left Mater Dei to take a job at Apple.

...The next morning Waters, concerned about the injured player, went to Rollinson's office.

..."Rollinson", Waters said, "became 'agitated' that I asked, and was inquiring. And at that point I left his office and then that's when Geri came to tell me not to talk about it anymore.

"He didn't like to be challenged, and so when he says he's done talking about it, he will make it very clear he's done talking about it."

Ten minutes later Campeau entered Water's office. Waters said she could tell Campeau was angry as she approached the office.

"And then she got there, shut the door and started yelling at me about how I needed to stop asking questions, this is not----she is over football and that I needed to not go down and talk to Bruce about this any more, ever again," Waters said.

Campeau, Waters recalled, was "very heated. She told me that I am not to talk about this young man ever at all anymore. They were handling it on their own end, and to not touch it."

...Waters took over as Mater Dei's AD in July 2020, only to be informed by Campeau weeks into her new job, that she was not in charged of the football program. 

"Because I had to get used to Mater Dei, Mater Dei didn't have to get used to me," Waters recalled Campeau saying.

"That I had to drink the Kool Aid first."

https://www.ocregister.com/2022/04/26/former-mater-dei-ad-says-school-mishandled-hazing-case/

Ouch!…. Not a Good Look for MD or Rollo…. They End of an Era may be coming faster then anyone thought….

[pied]

41 minutes ago, THEOC89 said:

Ouch!…. Not a Good Look for MD or Rollo…. They End of an Era may be coming faster then anyone thought….

 

 

Agreed.  Always two sides to the story, but as an outsider it looks bad.  

[Horsefly]

52 minutes ago, THEOC89 said:

Ouch!…. Not a Good Look for MD or Rollo…. They End of an Era may be coming faster then anyone thought….

I wonder what the parents of the victim have to say about all this?