Gentlemen, Your Attention Please

[HawgGoneIt]

From  me acting as a moderator to you, 

I can't find any acceptable reason to ever direct the use of the N word at any other user. I simply can't. I even cringe when I see it typed out and used in a sentence and not directed at another user, because I feel like it gets people comfortable with typing it or using it on here. Of course it has been used in a sentence without being directed at others and I never said a thing, although I did cringe each time I saw it. The word is just that terrible to use in my opinion. 

All things aside, it was used in direct toward a user from another user this past weekend. In order to give full disclosure to everyone here, I was on vacation this weekend and was barely skimming threads when I found time. I totally missed the exchange that brought the N-word out directed toward a user and it was eventually brought to my attention as the week wore on. I say that to get around to this, I would never have allowed that exchange to continue had I seen the exchange as it was happening. Period. 

I have since banned the member DBcaptiron until football season returns in August. 

I shouldn't really need to say this, but, I don't ever want to have to ban any user. We are too small of a group already. Anyway, I just couldn't see any other way to handle the situation that I found, even though there was some context added after the initial exchange as to suggest it was meant as an education type use or whatever. I've personally never seen that particular user as a racist or bigot, but we just can't take away the fact that the word was used toward another. Even later after apologizing there was additional dialogue that was questionable at best. 

These racially charged discussions are difficult. For some, they are difficult to stomach even. I don't know what we can do different as a group to avoid these types of exchanges in the future, but, we live in a reality where these types of discussions are going to happen, we just need to do better as friends among friends to not cross any lines. 

These off seasons are brutal. It seems like we have had one of these types of exchanges each off season since I have been a member with you guys and subsequently had to lose a member for some length of time. 

 

DBcaptiron emailed me since his ban and more or less asked that I share his email with the board, which, I will do, because I am human and I do care about him and all of us in spite of all of our warts and mistakes. 

 

Hawg,

      I just wanted to let you know that I understand your position completely, and regret having made it harder for you, and for that I just wanted to apologize personally.  I pretty much knew that this was taking a bullet (by shooting one as well) and have no qualms with it.  I honestly hold no malice towards Nut (and certainly hope that both you and he know it).  I would also like to thank you for at least allowing me to express thoughts as to why it was brought to the table before clipping the wings, as it probably would have been worse if people thought it was done from pure anger, rather than point and projection.  Many may never understand these points, but maybe some will.  Many of the points made may be entirely wrong, and nothing is right for everyone.    But I have enjoyed my time on the board to be able to project them, and hope that at the very least they are taken as part of that "dialogue" that is constantly requested these days,  and not personally.

 

       Hopefully someday taboos can be broken, and double standards as well (and even micro-aggressions to boot).  But we still live in a day where they rule all....

 

      Feel free to post this note on the board or not, or pass it to whoever asks (whichever you think best).  

You do a great job moderating the board, so I know I can trust your judgement.      

        

Regards,

ResidentTroll

 

 

 

 

 

Now, putting my moderator hat aside and just speaking as one of the guys, I read the exchange and kind of saw where he was coming from and the point he was trying to convey. I don't agree with how he went about it just as one of the guys either. I hate that the entire thing happened. I don't think he is a horrible guy, and really don't think him a racist or whatever. I think that BellyBob jumped all over it right away and I appreciated his take on it. I really do hate every time some mess like this happens. 

 

Anyway, as a member of the board, and hopefully a friend of most of you, I couldn't read that email and then not post it here to allow our fellow member an additional opportunity to convey his feelings. 

 

Feel free to discuss this candidly. Let me know your feelings on the handling of the situation if you want or whatever as well if you feel like doing so, or not. I just felt like it should be out in the open what was happening. Idk. I have tried to make a lot of moderation stuff be behind the scenes after accepting some criticism in the past, but the email came and I felt that it was ok to bring this out into the open. 

[DarterBlue]

Thanks for posting the above. It is good to know why certain things happen and I, for one, appreciate the disclosure. It is unfortunate that so many of the topics on the board are centered on race and racial incidents. But perhaps it's a sign of the times.

The USA has been my adopted country for the better part of 40 years now. As I reflect on my life here, there is much that has made me happy and optimistic. Unfortunately, there have been personal events, as well as those reported on the National news, that have given me pause and cause for concern. 

For my part, I choose to be optimistic. For in my time here there is no doubt that racial progress has been made on many fronts.  

DBCap, (Resident Troll) and I have had our back and forth arguments on several topics since I began posting on the board. We certainly disagreed more often than we were in agreement. However, I did always find his responses (at least to me), to be thoughtful and at times insightful. In that sense, he will be missed by me. 

[zulu1128]

Sounds like I missed the good stuff, as usual.  

 

I guess that’s the downside to having enough of a life as to not be on much during the weekends. 

[RedZone]

I personally wish you would ban all "black/white topics" period.

Back in day when I first started on the football forums NO ONE knew what color anyone was or even cared. Racial topics were non- existent.

This is complete MADNESS here and it will eventually get worse and bring others down. It got me, I did my time, and haven't been in a racial pissing match since. Make no mistake though. There are couple of hardcore race-baiters here who don't seem to want to let up.

They can have it!

Short and sweet.

 

[zulu1128]

Chipmunk’s insight in these matters is always useful, if not ironic. 

 

 

 

 

Im kidding. It’s just ironic. 

[Belly Bob]

I appreciate the post. 

It's hard to object to the ban, given that dbcaptiron himself seems to think that it is an appropriate response to what he said and given that it's not at all unreasonable to have some rule in place that bans members for using that word. 

Maybe he should be allowed to return if those he offended most -- I'm thinking SN, DD, and Horsefly -- accept his apology. It's not entirely clear from his message whether he's apologizing to you or to SN or to everyone. But perhaps it makes most sense to read him as apologizing to everyone. 

Either way, I recognize the challenge of having to moderate these events and I appreciate the care and thoughtfulness you've shown in doing so. 

[NorCalRuss]

Dunno what happen but you need to ban those that say- call people crackers, white trash, taco, spic, Nazis, monkeys, etc also. Just because some of these words don’t offend you don’t need mean it don’t others. Seen all of them used and many more and not a peep about it. 

You have others here daily race baiting and not a peep... 

[CardinalTruth]

Un ban him regardless. It’s supposedly what sport nut has been getting at. Direct dialogue and discussion. It will never be pretty but it’s a damn step. This is suppose to be off topic anyway and I feel for where your coming from a MOD point of view. Sometimes you have to hash this shit out. Else wise ban atleast 3 people. Sport but is speaking from himself and others can feel the same. Dbcap is doing the exact same. I’ve seen far worse from people here that were on other forums, why should they get a pass because they didn’t repeat what they said again. Perspective man. Let it roll and let these “grown adults” or I hope they are hash it out. Steady as she goes man 

[Eddyr2]

2 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

From  me acting as a moderator to you, 

I can't find any acceptable reason to ever direct the use of the N word at any other user. I simply can't. I even cringe when I see it typed out and used in a sentence and not directed at another user, because I feel like it gets people comfortable with typing it or using it on here. Of course it has been used in a sentence without being directed at others and I never said a thing, although I did cringe each time I saw it. The word is just that terrible to use in my opinion. 

All things aside, it was used in direct toward a user from another user this past weekend. In order to give full disclosure to everyone here, I was on vacation this weekend and was barely skimming threads when I found time. I totally missed the exchange that brought the N-word out directed toward a user and it was eventually brought to my attention as the week wore on. I say that to get around to this, I would never have allowed that exchange to continue had I seen the exchange as it was happening. Period. 

I have since banned the member DBcaptiron until football season returns in August. 

I shouldn't really need to say this, but, I don't ever want to have to ban any user. We are too small of a group already. Anyway, I just couldn't see any other way to handle the situation that I found, even though there was some context added after the initial exchange as to suggest it was meant as an education type use or whatever. I've personally never seen that particular user as a racist or bigot, but we just can't take away the fact that the word was used toward another. Even later after apologizing there was additional dialogue that was questionable at best. 

These racially charged discussions are difficult. For some, they are difficult to stomach even. I don't know what we can do different as a group to avoid these types of exchanges in the future, but, we live in a reality where these types of discussions are going to happen, we just need to do better as friends among friends to not cross any lines. 

These off seasons are brutal. It seems like we have had one of these types of exchanges each off season since I have been a member with you guys and subsequently had to lose a member for some length of time. 

 

DBcaptiron emailed me since his ban and more or less asked that I share his email with the board, which, I will do, because I am human and I do care about him and all of us in spite of all of our warts and mistakes. 

 

Hawg,

      I just wanted to let you know that I understand your position completely, and regret having made it harder for you, and for that I just wanted to apologize personally.  I pretty much knew that this was taking a bullet (by shooting one as well) and have no qualms with it.  I honestly hold no malice towards Nut (and certainly hope that both you and he know it).  I would also like to thank you for at least allowing me to express thoughts as to why it was brought to the table before clipping the wings, as it probably would have been worse if people thought it was done from pure anger, rather than point and projection.  Many may never understand these points, but maybe some will.  Many of the points made may be entirely wrong, and nothing is right for everyone.    But I have enjoyed my time on the board to be able to project them, and hope that at the very least they are taken as part of that "dialogue" that is constantly requested these days,  and not personally.

 

       Hopefully someday taboos can be broken, and double standards as well (and even micro-aggressions to boot).  But we still live in a day where they rule all....

 

      Feel free to post this note on the board or not, or pass it to whoever asks (whichever you think best).  

You do a great job moderating the board, so I know I can trust your judgement.      

        

Regards,

ResidentTroll

 

 

 

 

 

Now, putting my moderator hat aside and just speaking as one of the guys, I read the exchange and kind of saw where he was coming from and the point he was trying to convey. I don't agree with how he went about it just as one of the guys either. I hate that the entire thing happened. I don't think he is a horrible guy, and really don't think him a racist or whatever. I think that BellyBob jumped all over it right away and I appreciated his take on it. I really do hate every time some mess like this happens. 

 

Anyway, as a member of the board, and hopefully a friend of most of you, I couldn't read that email and then not post it here to allow our fellow member an additional opportunity to convey his feelings. 

 

Feel free to discuss this candidly. Let me know your feelings on the handling of the situation if you want or whatever as well if you feel like doing so, or not. I just felt like it should be out in the open what was happening. Idk. I have tried to make a lot of moderation stuff be behind the scenes after accepting some criticism in the past, but the email came and I felt that it was ok to bring this out into the open. 

If we as men (I mean that in the sense of humans, but I doubt there are a lot of female posters here) can’t have a civil discourse then we should not call ourselves men. Name calling and extremely vulgar name calling is only used by those who lack whit and/or know they are losing the argument. 

Thanks you for watching out for this, one of the reasons I respect what you and @PrepGridiron do here.

[Eddyr2]

2 hours ago, RedZone said:

I personally wish you would ban all "black/white topics" period.

Back in day when I first started on the football forums NO ONE knew what color anyone was or even cared. Racial topics were non- existent.

This is complete MADNESS here and it will eventually get worse and bring others down. It got me, I did my time, and haven't been in a racial pissing match since. Make no mistake though. There are couple of hardcore race-baiters here who don't seem to want to let up.

They can have it!

Short and sweet.

 

I am technically “white” but Hispanic by ethnicity...both my parents imagrated to the US from Mexico. I am also a conservative, but beyond any of that I consider myself Catholic...In order first I am Catholic, then a Husband/Father, then American and then Latino... hope that helps😃

[DevilDog]

All of the above   

[World Citizen]

I don't object to @HawgGoneIt decision.  I also do not want to see lurch banned either.

Taking the context into account it didn't seem to be anything other than making a point.  However, there is no reason for that kind of point imo.  He has been in attack mode for a while and a break may do him good.  

Putting aside His calling me a 'racist pig' and a 'Nazi supporter', he often offers perspective and I would like to see him back rather than not.  After his time out..and he acts like an adult.  😏

 

 

[Horsefly]

He and I were civilly talking on the use of the word.  I was hoping to continue without a ban. 

[LiberalDonaldTrump]

@HawgGoneIt

@PrepGridiron

@The Comish

as acting Union Rep I’m gonna make my case for DB real quick

 

How about 2 week ban and a mandatory online sensitivity online Course

 

 

Thanks for advanced cooperation 

 

 

[noonereal]

7 hours ago, Eddyr2 said:

Name calling and extremely vulgar name calling is only used by those who lack whit and/or know they are losing the argument. 

here is the catch 22

As there is essentially no moderation here, if someone stalks and trolls you incessantly "getting in the gutter" can be the only way to bring someone to heel.

I have posted things I never would simply because I felt my choices were to so do or leave the site. 

 

 

 

[noonereal]

1 hour ago, LiberalDonaldTrump said:

a mandatory online sensitivity online Course

We have a more important issue here

like the governor placed on "likes" 

[Horsefly]

2 hours ago, Horsefly said:

He and I were civilly talking on the use of the word.  I was hoping to continue without a ban. 

Let me also add I respect your decision Hawg, so no beef from me.

[HawgGoneIt]

8 hours ago, NorCalRuss said:

Dunno what happen but you need to ban those that say- call people crackers, white trash, taco, spic, Nazis, monkeys, etc also. Just because some of these words don’t offend you don’t need mean it don’t others. Seen all of them used and many more and not a peep about it. 

You have others here daily race baiting and not a peep... 

There is an obvious difference between perceiving race baiting and calling another member the n word. Where some people are perceiving race baiting, others are perceiving an opportunity to discuss or learn. Every time a person of color posts something pursuant to what they see as an injustice, it is not an attack on white people. I can't for the life of me wrap my head around why it's being perceived that way, and I try really hard to. 

I attribute this to something I posted in the BlockIsHot thread on the Varsity board. We all perceive things differently, so, in general I try to let the board teach me their perception as a unit more or less. Of course as is true with many things, we come off seemingly split on so many things, making my position more difficult. 

I think maybe some will remember that on DJ's board, I really tried to keep us away from these racially charged discussions, because, they do bring out some of the worst in some people. Call it primal instincts or whatever, but a lot of people lack the ability to deal with these issues thoughtfully, and the discussions tend to spiral into someone losing their "cool". It just happens. I can't protect you from yourself and your own internal demons. The best I can do is try to keep the board from crossing certain lines. 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, noonereal said:

here is the catch 22

As there is essentially no moderation here, if someone stalks and trolls you incessantly "getting in the gutter" can be the only way to bring someone to heel.

I have posted things I never would simply because I felt my choices were to so do or leave the site. 

 

 

 

 

I had noticed that Troll was on you like stink on shit. I was somewhat entertained by the chase. 

 

 

I never know what's the right thing whole-heartedly. In this instance, I have seen Troll carry on in depth conversations  about race and other issues and thought he had a pretty good way of explaining a flip side of these issues that I never really looked at them from. I don't always agree with his positions, but he had always been pretty civil if not obnoxious at times about how he presented them. I think he did bring a lot to the board at times. We all have our moments of course. 

 

I think as long as there is racial issues to talk about, we'll see these discussions. I think some of them are pretty legit conversations, albeit difficult to kind of view ourselves in negative light when necessary or see our own self as above it all and separate from the issue being discussed. I suggest that if you feel like you are above one of these issues and there is no way that you could have any responsibility in the issue socially, then, skip it. Just don't read it or interact in it. This is truly one of the places where a good offense is not the best defense in my opinion. 

Try to not view every racial discussion as an attack. I think if I do view one as an attack, I will try to do better and lock these down if necessary. There does seem to be a need for some moderation in that although I'm not 100 percent sure how to proceed entirely, I think it will have to go back to my own heart and judgement at times. Idk. 

Have a good day guys. I'll continue to ponder on these issues at while I'm at work. 

 

[noonereal]

1 minute ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Every time a person of color posts something pursuant to what they see as an injustice, it is not an attack on white people. I can't for the life of me wrap my head around why it's being perceived that way, and I try really hard to. 

same with politics

Calling out Trump is the same to many as talking about their child. 

People like @Bormio will say things to you that cross the line of what is acceptable even in this forum. . 

It's nuts. 

I think the bottom line is that some folks simply are not like you and I. 

They become invested in their cause so it is perceived as personal to them. Why? Because it is personal, to them. 

[noonereal]

13 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Varsity board. We all perceive things differently,

and this becomes our reality 

scary, no?

Freakin' humans. Look out!

13 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I had noticed that Troll was on you like stink on shit. I was somewhat entertained by the chase. 

 

he and I just had our first "intimate" moment yesterday after all the fun... and you went and took him away!  

 

 

[noonereal]

14 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Try to not view every racial discussion as an attack. I think if I do view one as an attack, I will try to do better and lock these down if necessary. There does seem to be a need for some moderation in that although I'm not 100 percent sure how to proceed entirely, I think it will have to go back to my own heart and judgement at times. Idk. 

worry about the important stuff not this nonsense, the likes governor!

@LiberalDonaldTrump and I are gonna reach out to @The Comish if need be!

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

The genesis of the this crapfest is SportsNut, always been an advocate of his passion, but now it's crossed into something racially incendiary.

I stopped reading SportsNuts posts because of the former, and the issue of plagiarism and taking credit for someone else's work.

Too bad I'm not moderator, I'd suspend Sportnut for some of the same reasons Block got sent on his merry way.

Time to recruit. That will be my focus.

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

We got some real cool cats and smooth operators on this forum.

But I got a real issue with SportsNut.

Where is that "kill whitey" fool, anyways?

Crickets....

You'd think he'd man up for his culpability in this shit.

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

Just now, Drummer61 said:

I blocked him too...

I'm not gonna block anyone but Guccifer. But I hear you man....

[noonereal]

Just now, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

I'm not gonna block anyone but Guccifer. But I hear you man....

LOL

I find Canes wholly entertaining and smart. 

Funny how we are all so similar yet oh so different.