Why was DLS vs Folsom ever in doubt?

[Pops]

1 minute ago, HawgGoneIt said:

My bad... Massey Ratings. I have no clue where Maxwell came from. It was better than Folsom in my cup though. 

 

https://www.masseyratings.com/hsf/ratings

We need to send @ECHS05 a Defcon 5 alarm

Massey has 4 CA teams in top 7

and I believe they're HQ'd in Tennessee (although someone said VA the other day)

@CCBlackhatter will be very disappointed to find someone else that isn't part of the everyone who agrees with him

I think Top 10 is a bit generous at this point, but in any event...

 

[Sammyswordsman]

Can anyone tell me if DLS got a new scoreboard?

 

[PrepGridiron]

Just now, Sammyswordsman said:

Can anyone tell me if DLS got a new scoreboard?

 

September. Saving this one and the score for posterity. Hahaha

[CCBlackhatter]

11 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

My bad... Massey Ratings. I have no clue where Maxwell came from. It was better than Folsom in my cup though. 

 

https://www.masseyratings.com/hsf/ratings

Folsom coffee? Is that like the Dollar General version of Folgers?

[Pops]

10 minutes ago, CCBlackhatter said:

Your video responses suck.

PS I don't even play them. Lol

Then how do you know they suck SmallPond

[HawgGoneIt]

5 minutes ago, Pops said:

We need to send @ECHS05 a Defcon 5 alarm

Massey has 4 CA teams in top 7

and I believe they're HQ'd in Tennessee (although someone said VA the other day)

@CCBlackhatter will be very disappointed to find someone else that isn't part of the everyone who agrees with him

I think Top 10 is a bit generous at this point, but in any event...

 

 

This is true. However, they aren't artificially elevating each other in a loss like at CP. For instance, Folsom plummeted over 40 spots for their goose egg rather than hanging around at 11th as if the loss really meant nothing. 

 

 

[Pops]

1 minute ago, HawgGoneIt said:

 

This is true. However, they aren't artificially elevating each other in a loss like at CP. For instance, Folsom plummeted over 40 spots for their goose egg rather than hanging around at 11th as if the loss really meant nothing. 

 

 

Gotcha 

CP much more dynamic than humans but there is something in the formula that appears to give too soft of landings to teams that lose to good teams 

 

[CCBlackhatter]

7 minutes ago, Pops said:

We need to send @ECHS05 a Defcon 5 alarm

Massey has 4 CA teams in top 7

and I believe they're HQ'd in Tennessee (although someone said VA the other day)

@CCBlackhatter will be very disappointed to find someone else that isn't part of the everyone who agrees with him

I think Top 10 is a bit generous at this point, but in any event...

 

A bit generous?

No worries, two more blowouts in DLS's only relevant games will help them find there rightful place. Once the rest of the country kicks off, I forsee a downward trend for Sparty.

I have no issues with the other 3 being ranked where they are. Those teams are actually good.

DLS however should be ranked a few spots above Folsom.

[HawgGoneIt]

2 minutes ago, Pops said:

Gotcha 

CP much more dynamic than humans but there is something in the formula that appears to give too soft of landings to teams that lose to good teams 

 

 

I guess. One could say that it appears it works that way for west coast teams but not the same way for east coast teams. 

 

Oh wait. That's what that CP thread started out as. I guess someone did say it already. 

[CCBlackhatter]

8 minutes ago, Pops said:

Then how do you know they suck SmallPond

That's easy...

I just look at who posted the video.

[Cossacks]

16 minutes ago, PrepGridiron said:

You just gave me a good idea for the site. We have end of the year awards. One of the categories would be Worst Video/Meme Responses. 

 

[Blueliner]

Here’s how I see it. One last expert analysis on my part, then I’ll leave it alone🤣

Both teams are really, really good in my opinion. Lots of talent on each roster. They both have excellent coaching staffs that had their respective defenses prepared to the nth degree. They had 6 months to prepare for this “Open semi-final”. No other game mattered to these teams for 6 months. Think about that. 

Folsom’s problem is that with all of that talent, they decided to go after D39 rings and parades rather than prepare themselves for a day when they might have a shot at DLS and an Open berth. Folsom, with all of their talent and coaching, were mentally beaten by DLS. When the chips were down, Folsom wilted. You could see it. After that fumble, Folsom wasn’t he same. They stopped finishing plays. Ngata resorted to yelling at the refs instead of focusing on the next play. He’s lucky he wasn’t tossed. Good job by the ref to recognize the magnitude of this game and not toss him. Anytime I see a kid disrespect an adult like that, I cringe. On  the other hand, DLS has been there and done that against REAL competition. I’ve been saying it all along, DLS schedules games that they know they may not win. But that’s a GOOD thing. Why? Experience. Tell me those SJC, BG, and MD games didn’t help DLS and remind them that they’re always in the game no matter the score. That’s why even if Folsom woulda scored, DLS still was going to come back. Look what hey did against SJC innhe second half. Folsom boat raced every team that they played and had a shootout with Helix. 

Certain just people don’t realize (or just don’t wanna accept) what just happened here. They’re complaining about one call that “changed the game” and overlook the fact that Folsom was shut the eff out after averaging like 80 points per last year. Those two picks by DLS were likely TDs against any other Folsom opponent the last 5 years. Bennett’s used to just throwing it up there and letting big Joe go get it. But the future D1 recruits, Garrett and Wallace aren’t the Woodcreek secondary. Folsom moved the ball a little between the 20s...as expected. But DLS’s speed and athleticism kept pretty much every short catch just that....a short catch minus a few nice RACs the Badge and a couple of nice runs by DN. Folsom would have scored 50 against Rocklin the way that they played the other night. 

7 sacks. 2 picks. 1 forced fumble (the other one was an actual Folsom “mistake”), 2 TO on downs. 5 punts. JN was owned by Wallace. Did Folsom have a 3rd receiver? I heard that they did. Bennett fell apart when he finally faced a real defense...just like we all said he would. Go figure. DN was held under 100 yards. On his best run, his bro Joe screwed him because he wasn’t focused. 

And DLS was “lucky”. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I give props to Folsom for their effort. THey played their arses off. They rep’ed  NorCal well. Although, I knew that the DLS defense would significantly slow down their offense, I didn’t expect he defensive showing that he dogs brought. They played great....even if the DLS playbook was obviously limited. 

Instead of enjoying the result of the game, I guess we now we have listen to months/years of the Folsom/SFL contingent downplay the DLS win. I guess if they do it long enough, it’ll rewrite history. Lol! 

This was a game between two pretty evenly matched teams. Is anyone really surprised that DLS pulled out this nail biter? They were the team with experience in BIG games and Folsom wilted under the pressure. There was no luck involved with anything. 

 

[PrepGridiron]

3 minutes ago, Cossacks said:

 

Campaigning early!

[Sammyswordsman]

17 minutes ago, Blueliner said:

Here’s how I see it. One last expert analysis on my part, then I’ll leave it alone🤣

Both teams are really, really good in my opinion. Lots of talent on each roster. They both have excellent coaching staffs that had their respective defenses prepared to the nth degree. They had 6 months to prepare for this “Open semi-final”. No other game mattered to these teams for 6 months. Think about that. 

Folsom’s problem is that with all of that talent, they decided to go after D39 rings and parades rather than prepare themselves for a day when they might have a shot at DLS and an Open berth. Folsom, with all of their talent and coaching, were mentally beaten by DLS. When the chips were down, Folsom wilted. You could see it. After that fumble, Folsom wasn’t he same. They stopped finishing plays. Ngata resorted to yelling at the refs instead of focusing on the next play. He’s lucky he wasn’t tossed. Good job by the ref to recognize the magnitude of this game and not toss him. Anytime I see a kid disrespect an adult like that, I cringe. On  the other hand, DLS has been there and done that against REAL competition. I’ve been saying it all along, DLS schedules games that they know they may not win. But that’s a GOOD thing. Why? Experience. Tell me those SJC, BG, and MD games didn’t help DLS and remind them that they’re always in the game no matter the score. That’s why even if Folsom woulda scored, DLS still was going to come back. Look what hey did against SJC innhe second half. Folsom boat raced every team that they played and had a shootout with Helix. 

Certain just people don’t realize (or just don’t wanna accept) what just happened here. They’re complaining about one call that “changed the game” and overlook the fact that Folsom was shut the eff out after averaging like 80 points per last year. Those two picks by DLS were likely TDs against any other Folsom opponent the last 5 years. Bennett’s used to just throwing it up there and letting big Joe go get it. But the future D1 recruits, Garrett and Wallace aren’t the Woodcreek secondary. Folsom moved the ball a little between the 20s...as expected. But DLS’s speed and athleticism kept pretty much every short catch just that....a short catch minus a few nice RACs the Badge and a couple of nice runs by DN. Folsom would have scored 50 against Rocklin the way that they played the other night. 

7 sacks. 2 picks. 1 forced fumble (the other one was an actual Folsom “mistake”), 2 TO on downs. 5 punts. JN was owned by Wallace. Did Folsom have a 3rd receiver? I heard that they did. Bennett fell apart when he finally faced a real defense...just like we all said he would. Go figure. DN was held under 100 yards. On his best run, his bro Joe screwed him because he wasn’t focused. 

And DLS was “lucky”. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I give props to Folsom for their effort. THey played their arses off. They rep’ed  NorCal well. Although, I knew that the DLS defense would significantly slow down their offense, I didn’t expect he defensive showing that he dogs brought. They played great....even if the DLS playbook was obviously limited. 

Instead of enjoying the result of the game, I guess we now we have listen to months/years of the Folsom/SFL contingent downplay the DLS win. I guess if they do it long enough, it’ll rewrite history. Lol! 

This was a game between two pretty evenly matched teams. Is anyone really surprised that DLS pulled out this nail biter? They were the team with experience in BIG games and Folsom wilted under the pressure. There was no luck involved with anything. 

 

 

[Pops]

20 minutes ago, CCBlackhatter said:

A bit generous?

No worries, two more blowouts in DLS's only relevant games will help them find there rightful place. Once the rest of the country kicks off, I forsee a downward trend for Sparty.

I have no issues with the other 3 being ranked where they are. Those teams are actually good.

DLS however should be ranked a few spots above Folsom.

I don’t disagree for a rating system like CP but believe that you need to recognize a loss so I wouldn’t put Folsom that high (#10)

reminds me of 2010 when DLS beat servite 48-8 in CA Open and Servite was still #7 after loss 

outraged a lot of people especially OU112 if you remember him, but made sense from a ratings perspective — iOw, their accomplishments over the season still warranted

[Sammyswordsman]

1 minute ago, Pops said:

I don’t disagree for a rating system like CP but believe that you need to recognize a loss so I wouldn’t put Folsom that high (#10)

 

outraged a lot of people especially OU112 if you remember him, but made sense from a ratings perspective — iOw, their accomplishments over the season still warranted

FIFY

[CaliNorth]

1 hour ago, CCBlackhatter said:

Calpreps has them in the Top 10 RIGHT NOW dude. If they lose to BG like they did last year, they obviously have no business ranked amongst them (I'll have to double check, but they may be ranked higher than BG currently).

My point is DLS has shown nothing to suggest such lofty status.

I'm of the opinion you don't even know what this debate is about as you seem to agree with me, but for some reason you have no issue with DLS's gift of notoriety.

With that being said, it's not even worth continuing this discussion.

I don't even pay attn  to Calpreps. As Pops and others have noted, don't even look at Calpreps until midway through season. In fact, the last couple of seasons I really don't even know where Dela is ranked. I just know they are somewhere in the top 25. I only look at Dela to see them play the national opponents ( I watch all their games in between to see their progress ), and eventually how they do in Open final. I could care less about rankings. Where you and I differ is that I see you have an agenda against Dela and Ca. teams, where as I don't have an agenda against Ga. teams. I know good football and Ga. has had some really good teams, especially the last 6 yrs or so, since your coach showed up at colquitt and raised the bar for all of Ga. football. I don't get carried away about early season wins and losses between top teams like you do, because I factor in it's early, and the good teams will get better, much better. I know in H.S. there are no do overs like college and Pro. There,  you can not look so good early in season, even lose, and still win Super Bowl or National Championship. It seems you don't understand that concept at all, or even acknowledge it, except if it happens to be a Ga. team. Then you allow for all kinds of justification for improvement, first game status, etc. I think you are a little hypocritical about all this rankings.

[CCBlackhatter]

15 minutes ago, CaliNorth said:

I don't even pay attn  to Calpreps. As Pops and others have noted, don't even look at Calpreps until midway through season. In fact, the last couple of seasons I really don't even know where Dela is ranked. I just know they are somewhere in the top 25. I only look at Dela to see them play the national opponents ( I watch all their games in between to see their progress ), and eventually how they do in Open final. I could care less about rankings. Where you and I differ is that I see you have an agenda against Dela and Ca. teams, where as I don't have an agenda against Ga. teams. I know good football and Ga. has had some really good teams, especially the last 6 yrs or so, since your coach showed up at colquitt and raised the bar for all of Ga. football. I don't get carried away about early season wins and losses between top teams like you do, because I factor in it's early, and the good teams will get better, much better. I know in H.S. there are no do overs like college and Pro. There,  you can not look so good early in season, even lose, and still win Super Bowl or National Championship. It seems you don't understand that concept at all, or even acknowledge it, except if it happens to be a Ga. team. Then you allow for all kinds of justification for improvement, first game status, etc. I think you are a little hypocritical about all this rankings.

You've obviously misinterpreted every post. No where have I stated that improvement isn't possible.

In fact, I think teams should be ranked in a certain spot each week based on their performance. For example, DLS performed to the level of a Top 50ish type team in Week 1, so rank them there. If DLS improves and performs, then move them up in the polls. The same goes for every team regardless of who it is and what state they are from. What is hypocritical about that?

You on the other hand support a team being ranked on how much they MIGHT improve over the season. With your approach a team could maintain a lofty ranking and never actually improve or perform up to that initial ranking.

Understand yet? Or should I restate this on a 1st grade reading level?

 

[CCBlackhatter]

21 minutes ago, Pops said:

I don’t disagree for a rating system like CP but believe that you need to recognize a loss so I wouldn’t put Folsom that high (#10)

reminds me of 2010 when DLS beat servite 48-8 in CA Open and Servite was still #7 after loss 

outraged a lot of people especially OU112 if you remember him, but made sense from a ratings perspective — iOw, their accomplishments over the season still warranted

But you agree that DLS is ranked appropriately at #9 I'm sure...

[Sammyswordsman]

5 minutes ago, CCBlackhatter said:

But you agree that DLS is ranked appropriately at #9 I'm sure...

 

[Sammyswordsman]

1 hour ago, TownBiz24 said:

Let it go!!! Lol!! You sound like such a whiny little bitch, crying about this play over and over and over again. It is what it is. Your team lost!! DLS deserved to win BUT, the fumble made them lose. DLS deserved to win BUT, Folsom had more yards. DLS deserved to win BUT, Folsom had more yards. DLS deserved to win BUT, Folsom fans ate more hot dogs..but, but, but...lol. At the end of the game all that matters is what is on that scoreboard and it said...

DLS 14- Folsom ZERO!!!

 

[CCBlackhatter]

13 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

 

Surprised you even had to hesitate.

I get it though, you were just teasing with Pops. That's totally it.

[CaliNorth]

2 minutes ago, CCBlackhatter said:

You've obviously misinterpreted every post. No where have I stated that improvement isn't possible.

In fact, I think teams should be ranked in a certain spot each week based on their performance. For example, DLS performed to the level of a Top 50ish type team in Week 1, so rank them there. If DLS improves and performs, then move them up in the polls. The same goes for every team regardless of who it is and what state they are from. What is hypocritical about that?

You on the other hand support a team being ranked on how much they MIGHT improve over the season. With your approach a team could maintain a lofty ranking and never actually improve or perform up to that initial ranking.

Understand yet? Or should I restate this on a 1st grade reading level?

 

I also pointed out to you, giving examples in college football, that that is not how it is done. A win is a win, especially if you beat a team ranked higher than you. Not looking good is not enough to drop teams with a legacy of being good, completely out of the rankings. When it comes to ranking teams within the top 5 of country, than yea, there should be movement. I also pointed out that I agree with your point, that Dela early in season,  has many examples of not looking worthy of their ranking. But the experts have learned to give them the benefit of the doubt because they have seen too many times that spartans are a different team at end of season than they are first couple of games. If they lose, than yes, drop them, of course.  

 Your point about lofty ranking and not really improving over season and still maintaining high ranking,  won't happen for Dela. They will eventually get exposed in State Final, or even against a Gorman in game 5. I wouldn't worry about that. In fact, they even had East of UT on the schedule after Gorman, but game got canceled.

What you seem to want is a fluid ranking system on a weekly basis. Way to difficult to rank like that, due to injuries, schedules  that are extremely heavily weighted during certain times of season ( Playing 3 or 4 consecutive games against top teams, you are bound to have a let down where you are not at your best, even though you may not lose ;  BG against STA in 2016 ) etc.  If you want to continue to say Dela did not look to you like a top 50 team against Folsom, than that is your opinion. By the way, I have seen in person many elite national teams, #1 teams, etc. over the last 30 yrs.  I can tell you that seeing Folsom in person the other night, that they are easily a top 30-35 team, and will probably be much higher come the end. They are 2 tiers blow MD and SJB, but I would put them pretty much in the same tier as St. Johns of D.C. last season. Their defense was better than St. Johns, and their offense is close.

[Extremely Humble]

2 minutes ago, CaliNorth said:

I also pointed out to you, giving examples in college football, that that is not how it is done. A win is a win, especially if you beat a team ranked higher than you. Not looking good is not enough to drop teams with a legacy of being good, completely out of the rankings. When it comes to ranking teams within the top 5 of country, than yea, there should be movement. I also pointed out that I agree with your point, that Dela early in season,  has many examples of not looking worthy of their ranking. But the experts have learned to give them the benefit of the doubt because they have seen too many times that spartans are a different team at end of season than they are first couple of games. If they lose, than yes, drop them, of course.  

 Your point about lofty ranking and not really improving over season and still maintaining high ranking,  won't happen for Dela. They will eventually get exposed in State Final, or even against a Gorman in game 5. I wouldn't worry about that. In fact, they even had East of UT on the schedule after Gorman, but game got canceled.

What you seem to want is a fluid ranking system on a weekly basis. Way to difficult to rank like that, due to injuries, schedules  that are extremely heavily weighted during certain times of season ( Playing 3 or 4 consecutive games against top teams, you are bound to have a let down where you are not at your best, even though you may not lose ;  BG against STA in 2016 ) etc.  If you want to continue to say Dela did not look to you like a top 50 team against Folsom, than that is your opinion. By the way, I have seen in person many elite national teams, #1 teams, etc. over the last 30 yrs.  I can tell you that seeing Folsom in person the other night, that they are easily a top 30-35 team, and will probably be much higher come the end. They are 2 tiers blow MD and SJB, but I would put them pretty much in the same tier as St. Johns of D.C. last season. Their defense was better than St. Johns, and their offense is close.

Unfortunately most of these guys don’t watch the games they like to weigh in on. They look at box scores. 

I don’t think Sammy has seen a full Folsom game in his life but yet he’s their biggest hater. Guess that’s what happens when your team is top 500 such as Servite. Envy is a fickle bitch. 

[ThunderRam]

1 hour ago, Blueliner said:

 

 

This was a game between two pretty evenly matched teams. Is anyone really surprised that DLS pulled out this nail biter? They were the team with experience in BIG games and Folsom wilted under the pressure. There was no luck involved with anything. 

 

 

I don't take issue with most of what you said except for the above. I addressed a similar statement on the NorCal site and I believe it bears repeating here.

The BIG game experience you mention comes from where?

The Spartans SOPH QB was making his very first start. And numerous other starters had limited experience at the Varsity level. Sure, there were Juniors and Seniors that were part of the team last season and the year before. Might even be 1 or 2 that played Varsity as frosh, IDK. However, those were also years DLS got curb stomped by St. John Bosco, Bishop Gorman and Mater Dei by a combined score of 142-61. And many of the kids playing last Fri. night didn't play key roles, if they played at all, in any of those 3 games either. That's significant.

Conversely, Folsom returned players that participated in a D1 title run last season that also included some big game experience in the post season, including the pressure of playing in Regional and State playoff games.

I feel that you're reaching quite a bit if you really believe the three games the Spartans weren't competitive in the past two seasons made any difference from a player perspective -- especially when maybe only a handful or more even played much.

IMO, only the DLS coaching staff benefited from years of BIG game experience. The the vast majority of DLS players didn't really an advantage in that regard. They don't get to piggyback teams from 5, 10, 20 years ago.

I feel that the experience level was pretty even among both teams. That said, you're spot on that Folsom wilted. 2 of their 3 best players made the 2 biggest mistakes of the game and the Bulldogs staff didn't make great adjustments.