Week 11 Tiers

[HurricaneNick]

1 minute ago, Texasball said:

Get this servite bull shit out of here they have done nothing and bet my bottom dollar MV beats that ass in the first round!

I’m not backing servite, my schools rival. 

 

1 minute ago, Texasball said:

I like you --- Please don't talk about things you don't know about

Dv is a great team and does what they do very very well but they aren’t doing a whole lot of different things. I saw qb option and direct run plays with him with passes sprinkled in here and there. They have a lot of success with that, what is opening up the playbook for dv? 

[badrouter]

3 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

Tier 1 should be Mater Dei, Duncanville and Lowndes 

Tier 2 would be SJB, STA, IMG, Katy and North Shore 

Where is St. Frances?

Agree Lowndes is worthy of Tier 1. Katy and NS haven't proven to be worthy of Tier 2.

[HurricaneNick]

9 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

More QB option when they open it up.  The very thing you had hoped to see when you came here to watch them.   Now, you’re saying something different.  

 I’ve said they do what they do better than anybody but didn’t think their scheme has a whole lot to it. They’re going to have success keeping it simple with the athletes they have because they can win that way. More option running plays makes sense, would keep the ball in his hands as much as possible. 

[nptb17]

1 hour ago, NicholasMalibu said:

Your DeMatha/Friendship Collegiate/NCA/St. Ed’s daisy chain is too far fetched. We’re talking about a common opponent. The debate is what happened when each team in question played the common opponent(Iggy).

I agree with the in-league close game point, but the running clock DM put on Iggy in the first half is just too hard to shy away from here. 

Ignatius didn't even make the playoffs.  Games go like they go.  Dematha was 42 points better than Ignatius one Saturday.  St. Edward was 4 points better on one Friday night.  I would take St. Edward over Dematha.  St. Edward would do a hell of a lot better job of stopping the run then what St. Ignatius did vs Dematha.

[badrouter]

St. Frances catapulted to at/near the top of the rankings after blasting Miami Central. Central has since lost to Chamindade-Madonna by 20 and Miami Northwestern by 10. Lowndes blasting Northwestern is arguably more impressive than what St. Frances did to Central. Lowndes belongs in a Tier 1 if you're putting anyone other than Mater Dei in that tier. 

[Sammyswordsman]

16 minutes ago, nptb17 said:

Ignatius didn't even make the playoffs.  Games go like they go.  Dematha was 42 points better than Ignatius one Saturday.  St. Edward was 4 points better on one Friday night.  I would take St. Edward over Dematha.  St. Edward would do a hell of a lot better job of stopping the run then what St. Ignatius did vs Dematha.

😘. @GardenStateBaller is now 0-3

[hardhit1]

3 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

@hardhit1 @zulu1128 @OdbCle Would each of you bet $100 per game on the above? 
 

A reminder that DeMatha (third place in WCAC) shutout Iggy 42-0 on 9/21. 

Damn just got done 3 hours of raking leaves and you bring Christmas early

sure C note on Mentor/Ed’s 

[NicholasMalibu]

29 minutes ago, nptb17 said:

Ignatius didn't even make the playoffs.  Games go like they go.  Dematha was 42 points better than Ignatius one Saturday.  St. Edward was 4 points better on one Friday night.  I would take St. Edward over Dematha.  St. Edward would do a hell of a lot better job of stopping the run then what St. Ignatius did vs Dematha.

I disregarded your opinion after...

“St Ignatius easy. 24-10. DeMatha’s offense would get bottled up by any decent defense. Ignatius’ defense is better than decent”

-nptb17 September 18, 2019

I’ve never seen a second half clock run any faster the next Saturday....

 

[nptb17]

25 minutes ago, NicholasMalibu said:

I disregarded your opinion after...

“St Ignatius easy. 24-10. DeMatha’s offense would get bottled up by any decent defense. Ignatius’ defense is better than decent”

-nptb17 September 18, 2019

I’ve never seen a second half clock run any faster the next Saturday....

 

I have like 2 whiff's a year.  That was one of them.

[SeaShells21]

1 hour ago, HurricaneNick said:

Interesting comparison lol. They’re a great team but they do have the weakest schedule in t 1/2 so I understand why they’re in t2. Nothing impressive about beating teams ranked in the thousands every week. Dv is the Clemson of hsfb. They get to skate into the playoffs completely healthy & without being tested. Good for them. If they win state they should be t1 no question but they haven’t proven themselves since week 3. Would be interesting to see how they’d do with MD/IMG/SFA/SJB schedule because quality and pedigree goes up when you’re battle tested and dv is not battle tested at this point in the season. If MD played that schedule and put up the same results how do you put them in t1? 

By looking at the talent they have on the field, with the coaching staff and using common sense to determine they would smash most of the better teams in the nation.

[Sammyswordsman]

58 minutes ago, hardhit1 said:

Damn just got done 3 hours of raking leaves and you bring Christmas early

sure C note on Mentor/Ed’s 

LOL.. @GardenStateBaller

[Sammyswordsman]

16 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Thank the Lord these Tiers make no impact in the REAL world!!!! #faux

......as he quotes arguably the worst, Laziest HS poll out there.

[NicholasMalibu]

1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said:

......as he quotes arguably the worst, Laziest HS poll out there.

It pays to be lazy in high school football these days. Schedule directional Ontario Prep and walk through Shaker Heights by 6 TD’s then boom, TIER 3. 

[Pops]

Good discussion 

just for the heck of it, a lot of discussion about who had best wins — thought I’d list best 36 wins (regardless of OOS Ir MOV) in the country this year (per CP):

1. MD (vs SFA)

2. MD (vs SJB)

3. SFA (vs IMG)

4. StL (vs Punaho)

5. StL (vs Punaho)

6. Lowndes (vs CQ)

7. Valdosta (vs CQ)

8.  Mentor (vs St Ed’s)

9. STA (vs DLS)

10. SJB (vs Dematha)

11  Gonzaga (vs dematha)

12. SJC (vs Dematha)

13  StL (Vs kahuku)

14 Punaho (vs Kahuku)

15 Milani (vs Kahuku)

16 BG (bs Lone Peak - UT)

17 North Gwinnett (vs Armwood)

18  SLC (vs Guyer)

19 MD (vs CC)

20 CCSD (vs CC)

21 Hoover (vs Central AL)

22 Katy (vs Northshore)

23 StL (vs BG)

24 SJB (vs OLGC)

25 dematha (vs OLGC)

26 SJC (vs OLGC)

27 CQ (vs NG)

28 MD (vs Servite)

29 SJB (vs servite)

30 BG (vs servite)

31 St eds (v elder)

32 lasalle (v elder)

33 Lowndes (vs MNW)

34 IMG (vs MNW)

35 Rockwall (v Martin TX)

35 IMG (v SJP)

36  Marietta (v SJP)

 

 

[On2whls]

1 hour ago, Pops said:

Good discussion 

just for the heck of it, a lot of discussion about who had best wins — thought I’d list best 36 wins (regardless of OOS Ir MOV) in the country this year (per CP):

1. MD (vs SFA)

2. MD (vs SJB)

3. SFA (vs IMG)

4. StL (vs Punaho)

5. StL (vs Punaho)

6. Lowndes (vs CQ)

7. Valdosta (vs CQ)

8.  Mentor (vs St Ed’s)

9. STA (vs DLS)

10. SJB (vs Dematha)

11  Gonzaga (vs dematha)

12. SJC (vs Dematha)

13  StL (Vs kahuku)

14 Punaho (vs Kahuku)

15 Milani (vs Kahuku)

16 BG (bs Lone Peak - UT)

17 North Gwinnett (vs Armwood)

18  SLC (vs Guyer)

19 MD (vs CC)

20 CCSD (vs CC)

21 Hoover (vs Central AL)

22 Katy (vs Northshore)

23 StL (vs BG)

24 SJB (vs OLGC)

25 dematha (vs OLGC)

26 SJC (vs OLGC)

27 CQ (vs NG)

28 MD (vs Servite)

29 SJB (vs servite)

30 BG (vs servite)

31 St eds (v elder)

32 lasalle (v elder)

33 Lowndes (vs MNW)

34 IMG (vs MNW)

35 Rockwall (v Martin TX)

35 IMG (v SJP)

36  Marietta (v SJP)

 

 

If MV beats Servite, do they make the list?

[Sammyswordsman]

45 minutes ago, On2whls said:

If MV beats Servite, do they make the list?

We don't spend time on things not likley to happen anytime soon.

[OdbCle]

19 hours ago, NicholasMalibu said:

Your DeMatha/Friendship Collegiate/NCA/St. Ed’s daisy chain is too far fetched. We’re talking about a common opponent. The debate is what happened when each team in question played the common opponent(Iggy).

I agree with the in-league close game point, but the running clock DM put on Iggy in the first half is just too hard to shy away from here. 

The point of my daisy chain was to show that comparing common opponents is not best practices. I understand where you're coming from with comparing a single common opponent. And if we were to look at single games in a vacuum, the Dematha/Ignatius game speaks volumes. Thorough butt-whooping from start to finish. However, I don't think you'd disagree that teams can change and evolve as a season goes on. Mentor seems to have found a defense for the first time in 15 years to compliment a very good RPO triple threat on offense. St. Edward's first year starting QB is now executing their offense at a very high level with a full compliment of weapons, including two D1 receivers (one that just came back from injury after the Ignatius game, and the other a D1 basketball prospect who decided to come out for football this year and has recently picked up an offer from Michigan State for the way he has developed throughout the year). Both these teams are on an upward trajectory at the moment.  

Does that mean they belong on a tier above the WCAC teams? Personally, I would put Mentor and Ed's in the same tier as those teams right now. That was not the case weeks ago. Early in the season, the WCAC appeared head and shoulders above all of Ohio. They are still above just about every team in Ohio IMO. But I do see where Sammy is coming from given some results over the past few weeks.  Dematha's offense seems to be hit or miss. Both them and OLGC were in what appears to be close games with DC public FCA. OLGC had a tight game against Mt. St. Joseph as well.  Maybe I'm not giving those two programs the credit they deserve, but I don't recall any Maryland posters making a case for FCA or MSJ as being on the level of the WCAC teams this year. On the other hand SJC is certainly trending up and their ridiculous schedule is paying dividends in WCAC play. 

[Texasball]

18 hours ago, HurricaneNick said:

 I’ve said they do what they do better than anybody but didn’t think their scheme has a whole lot to it. They’re going to have success keeping it simple with the athletes they have because they can win that way. More option running plays makes sense, would keep the ball in his hands as much as possible. 

My point was that SJC did not see much of the QB run game...

[Texasball]

18 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Pro tip - You would be better served with other allies on this board other than Folsom guys 

I don't pay attention to stuff like.  You would be better served to listen to me and stop all your BS.

Had team like DV only beat Servite by 1  ---After Servite got blown out by BG and only beat 6-5 ND quality team by 3  - Then later got curbed stomped by MD - You would have placed at best DV in Tier 3

Duncanville's one win over SJC -   is better than the two SJB had over WCAC team because SJC beat those teams.  SJB beat DBP -  Yet every good team they played until the middle of Oct beat them including Gonzaga who again SJC beat.   So by you logic SJC was better than all three of SJB big wins.

 

[Sammyswordsman]

17 minutes ago, Texasball said:

I don't pay attention to stuff like.  You would be better served to listen to me and stop all your BS.

Had team like DV only beat Servite by 1  ---After Servite got blown out by BG and only beat 6-5 ND quality team by 3  - Then later got curbed stomped by MD - You would have placed at best DV in Tier 3

Duncanville's one win over SJC -   is better than the two SJB had over WCAC team because SJC beat those teams.  SJB beat DBP -  Yet every good team they played until the middle of Oct beat them including Gonzaga who again SJC beat.   So by you logic SJC was better than all three of SJB big wins.

 

You make good points to support dropping SJB.  

You still have not answered my question about SFA.  Do you think SFA belongs in Tier 1

[NicholasMalibu]

2 hours ago, OdbCle said:

The point of my daisy chain was to show that comparing common opponents is not best practices. I understand where you're coming from with comparing a single common opponent. And if we were to look at single games in a vacuum, the Dematha/Ignatius game speaks volumes. Thorough butt-whooping from start to finish. However, I don't think you'd disagree that teams can change and evolve as a season goes on. Mentor seems to have found a defense for the first time in 15 years to compliment a very good RPO triple threat on offense. St. Edward's first year starting QB is now executing their offense at a very high level with a full compliment of weapons, including two D1 receivers (one that just came back from injury after the Ignatius game, and the other a D1 basketball prospect who decided to come out for football this year and has recently picked up an offer from Michigan State for the way he has developed throughout the year). Both these teams are on an upward trajectory at the moment.  

Does that mean they belong on a tier above the WCAC teams? Personally, I would put Mentor and Ed's in the same tier as those teams right now. That was not the case weeks ago. Early in the season, the WCAC appeared head and shoulders above all of Ohio. They are still above just about every team in Ohio IMO. But I do see where Sammy is coming from given some results over the past few weeks.  Dematha's offense seems to be hit or miss. Both them and OLGC were in what appears to be close games with DC public FCA. OLGC had a tight game against Mt. St. Joseph as well.  Maybe I'm not giving those two programs the credit they deserve, but I don't recall any Maryland posters making a case for FCA or MSJ as being on the level of the WCAC teams this year. On the other hand SJC is certainly trending up and their ridiculous schedule is paying dividends in WCAC play. 

That’s reasonable. It’s just tough to see WCAC teams consistently move back from beating each other up in extremely close games every week. I think we can both agree that the OH powers stayed away from top OOS comp this season and it seems to be helping now. I’ll watch to see how the OH and WCAC playoffs work out then revisit. 

[Sammyswordsman]

41 minutes ago, NicholasMalibu said:

That’s reasonable. It’s just tough to see WCAC teams consistently move back from beating each other up in extremely close games every week. I think we can both agree that the OH powers stayed away from top OOS comp this season and it seems to be helping now. I’ll watch to see how the OH and WCAC playoffs work out then revisit. 

After 11 weeks we have much more info to vett the WCAC teams and other teams.  If anything the WCAC teams were ranked into a higher Tier for playing SJB and a tough OOS schedule, even though they lost.

After 11 weeks, the WCAC teams have simply not lived up to expectations, and thats pretty much across the board, as no WCAC team has emerged dominant, including SJC. 

The WCAC teams are NOT being punished for losing to SJB and other Top OOS teams, but simply being adjusted (in the Tiers opinion) appropriately after evaluating 11 weeks of data.

[Texasball]

1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said:

You make good points to support dropping SJB.  

You still have not answered my question about SFA.  Do you think SFA belongs in Tier 1

Probably  - Maybe - maybe not 🤷‍♂️

according people on this site they was never threat to beat MD.  (That’s negative mark)

I like that they handled IMG easily.  Having said that - I am not convinced IMG is all that.  Having watched IMG multiple times this year, I can see how game like that could go south on them real quick.  Even - SJC had legit chance to beat IMG. - block punt TD and INT for TD was the difference .  Other than that there was no real advantage for either team.  

had the fighting not started in the DV vs SJC  game DV wins that game by 28 points.

With well over 3 mins to go in the game - DV scores and was called back because of the fighting - Then on the next play - DV gets tackled on the inch line - fighting starts again.  After that both coaches decided to just let the clock run out. 

I would probably have MD, DV, Lowndes GA tier 1 w/ * by SFA

The 1 point win over Servite and the loss to MD playing true home game would put SJB in tier 2  - until they run the table.

I encourage you to take serious look at Lowndes GA.  

 

[Cal 14]

On 11/10/2019 at 9:18 AM, Sammyswordsman said:

What does that have to do with anything.  I don't differentiate between a "rivalry" game and any other game.

What does #27-26 have anything to do with this convo?

 

Agreed.  The "rivalry" excuse is overplayed.  Either you're better or you're not.

It's my second-favorite thing next to "that's just a tough place to play".

[Sammyswordsman]

19 minutes ago, Texasball said:

Probably  - Maybe - maybe not 🤷‍♂️

according people on this site they was never threat to beat MD.  (That’s negative mark)

I like that they handled IMG easily.  Having said that - I am not convinced IMG is all that.  Having watched IMG multiple times this year, I can see how game like that could go south on them real quick.  Even - SJC had legit chance to beat IMG. - block punt TD and INT for TD was the difference .  Other than that there was no real advantage for either team.  

had the fighting not started in the DV vs SJC  game DV wins that game by 28 points.

With well over 3 mins to go in the game - DV scores and was called back because of the fighting - Then on the next play - DV gets tackled on the inch line - fighting starts again.  After that both coaches decided to just let the clock run out. 

I would probably have MD, DV, Lowndes GA tier 1 w/ * by SFA

The 1 point win over Servite and the loss to MD playing true home game would put SJB in tier 2  - until they run the table.

I encourage you to take serious look at Lowndes GA.  

 

This is a good take.  I can respect your thought process on this.

On the + side for SJB is that most people are adamant that SFA is a Tier 1 team, and SJB played MD closer than anyone, including SFA.  Also, SJB has 5 better wins than DV at this point in the season.

In 2 weeks, SJB plays Cen10.  Can we agree that the outcome of that game will seal SJB fate for the season as far as their Tier rankings.  A loss = Tier 2 and a win = Tier 1 ?